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OT: So to be clear, in North Carolina

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    I know one personally. His dad would disown him,cut him off, and not talk to him if he came out. It's pretty freaking sad.

    But I'd choose that kind of social seclusion, wouldn't you?

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    sf2k4 ●

  • Uncle DP said...

    Wow. You're really hardcore. No, I wouldn't consider that even remotely reasonable. No true statistician would even conduct that study. That's a joke.

    Oh really? Why?

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    sf2k4 ●

  • sf2k4 said...

    But I'd choose that kind of social seclusion, wouldn't you?

    Yea. It seems to be pretty hard for him. Given the circumstances though, he's in no position yet to come out.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Yea. It seems to be pretty hard for him. Given the circumstances though, he's in no position yet to come out.

    I was being sarcastic, meaning I'd choose to be disowned and ridiculed. 'Cause that's what everyone thinks happens.

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    sf2k4 ●

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    I know one personally. His dad would disown him,cut him off, and not talk to him if he came out. It's pretty freaking sad.

    I know quite a few myself and am related to two, in a very religiously conservative family. Not sure how I missed the boat, but I can tell you that I've never met anyone who had that experience. Even my dear old Baptist grandmother loves her gay daughter dearly.

    So: my anecdotal evidence >>> your anecdotal evidence

    LMAO at "I know one gay man and he is treated badly!" Hell, how many more straight men do you know whose dads hate them for one reason or another?

    This post was edited by Uncle DP on 5/9/2012 at 8:34 PM

    Uncle DP

  • sf2k4 said...

    I was being sarcastic, meaning I'd choose to be disowned and ridiculed. 'Cause that's what everyone thinks happens.

    I was confused there for a second. I gotcha now.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • Uncle DP said...

    I know quite a few myself and am related to two, in a very religiously conservative family. Not sure how I missed the boat, but I can tell you that I've never met anyone who had that experience. Even my dear old Baptist grandmother loves Ger gay daughter dearly.

    So: my anecdotal evidence >>> your anecdotal evidence

    LMAO at "I know one gay man and he is treated badly!" Hell, how many more straight men do you know whose dads hate them for one reason or another?

    I mean, it's not like we've seen multiple suicides by gay teens over the last few years... Ands it's not like there's a website devoted to telling gay teens that the ridicule eventually stops (by gay adults)... And it's not like there's a series of videos saying "Oh, by the way, it doesn't stop" by even more gay adults... Let's just ignore all of that, right?

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    sf2k4 ●

  • Uncle DP said...

    I know quite a few myself and am related to two, in a very religiously conservative family. Not sure how I missed the boat, but I can tell you that I've never met anyone who had that experience. Even my dear old Baptist grandmother loves her gay daughter dearly.

    So: my anecdotal evidence >>> your anecdotal evidence

    LMAO at "I know one gay man and he is treated badly!" Hell, how many more straight men do you know whose dads hate them for one reason or another?

    How many dads do you know who disown their kids for something they can't change?

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Yea. It seems to be pretty hard for him. Given the circumstances though, he's in no position yet to come out.

    He's actually probably bad wrong about that. In my not-so-limited experience with friends and relatives coming out of the closet, every one of them was most worried about what dad would say. In almost every case, their family already knew and had already accepted them as they were. In the two cases I know of where the kid actually kept it from his/her parents (one of each), there was momentary insanity followed by enlightenment. You love your kids regardless, always, and for any reason. I know that all too well after some heartaches my daughter has put me through, but I love her just the same and so do all of the parents of all the gay people I know and we're talking about some serious backwoods, gay hating rednecks in some cases. Tunes change a lot when it is your child.

    Long story short, he should go for it. Dad either knows already or will be cool with it in no time.

    Uncle DP

  • bhiley77 said...

    Surveys? Oh, definitely rock solid science there. I'd stick to the phrenology you were talking about earlier as proof.

    I'm sure if we measure the brains of every man or woman that decided to walk on the wild side we'd find clear cut evidence their brains are different. Right? Two chicks get drunk and mess around in college, definitely time to start measuring their fingers and response to loud noises, I for one am confident your conclusions will be supported in every case.

    Its amazing how in the span of a couple pages in this thread you've gone from the science being inconclusive to bullet-proof.

    Science is inconclusive regarding what specific factor is most predominant.

    Science is bullet-proof that choice is not that factor.

    ramssuperbowl99 ●

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    How many dads do you know who disown their kids for something they can't change?

    See my post above. I don't know any. Never have. I've seen fathers disown children who get strung out and I will argue that they can't change that either but I've never seen a father disown a gay son or daughter. I know it has happened somewhere but I haven't seen it.

    Uncle DP

  • http://imgur.com/joB7S

    ramssuperbowl99 ●

  • I continue to not understand why people get so up in arms and insulted by gay men. Seriously, are some of you that insecure in your masculinity?

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    sf2k4 ●

  • Uncle DP said...

    He's actually probably bad wrong about that. In my not-so-limited experience with friends and relatives coming out of the closet, every one of them was most worried about what dad would say. In almost every case, their family already knew and had already accepted them as they were. In the two cases I know of where the kid actually kept it from his/her parents (one of each), there was momentary insanity followed by enlightenment. You love your kids regardless, always, and for any reason. I know that all too well after some heartaches my daughter has put me through, but I love her just the same and so do all of the parents of all the gay people I know and we're talking about some serious backwoods, gay hating rednecks in some cases. Tunes change a lot when it is your child.

    Long story short, he should go for it. Dad either knows already or will be cool with it in no time.

    I guess. Up to him though.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • Uncle DP said...

    See my post above. I don't know any. Never have. I've seen fathers disown children who get strung out and I will argue that they can't change that either but I've never seen a father disown a gay son or daughter. I know it has happened somewhere but I haven't seen it.

    Well about that anecdotal evidence and all.. biggrin

    signature image signature image signature image

    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • VTSmitty said...

    I got to be friends with a fellow out of our Dallas office, and he was gay ... I don't support gay marriage, but he was my friend. Maybe that makes be hypocritical, but it is what it is.

    It doesn't make you a hypocrite. It makes you a bigot.

    Rivver

  • Cuthbert xxii said...

    I continually do not understand why straight men fight so hard for them being able to polesmoke.

    Yeah that whole freedom thing is overrated right?

    ramssuperbowl99 ●

  • Cuthbert xxii said...

    I continually do not understand why straight men fight so hard for them being able to polesmoke.

    'Cause I don't give a sh!t what someone else does in their free time. None of my damn business.

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    sf2k4 ●

  • ramssuperbowl99 said...

    Science is inconclusive regarding what specific factor is most predominant.

    Science is bullet-proof that choice is not that factor.

    You're not a scientist are you? I can tell by the way you don't quite grasp the scientific method.

    If science were rock solid that it isn't a choice, then by god, science is rock solid that people are born that way. Likewise, if science is inconclusive on whether or not people are born that way, science is going to be inconclusive on whether or not it's a choice.

    Uncle DP

  • Uncle DP said...

    You're not a scientist are you? I can tell by the way you don't quite grasp the scientific method.

    If science were rock solid that it isn't a choice, then by god, science is rock solid that people are born that way. Likewise, if science is inconclusive on whether or not people are born that way, science is going to be inconclusive on whether or not it's a choice.

    But it's okay to legislate under the assumption that 100% of gay people choose to be so? 'Cause that's what just happened in North Carolina.

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    sf2k4 ●

  • ramssuperbowl99 said...

    First question - no.

    Which definition of marriage are you talking about? The Christian one? The Hindu one? The legislative one?

    I appreciate your honest answer. I don't want to put words in your mouth so I'd appreciate a little clarity on your first answer. Are you really saying that the only people entitled to their opinion are the ones who think gay marriage is right? Are you saying that homosexual beliefs are so important that they trump anyone else's beliefs? Is the issue important enough that you're willing to trample on so many? If so, why?

    As to my second question, I suppose what I'm asking is what's the driving motivation to make the change? Financial benefits? To make the couple feel equal or somehow happier? B/c some folks just like to feel morally superior to others? Something else? Since the country is currently, generally, one that recognizes traditional marriage, I'm simply talking about changing the current laws.

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    South Carolina Gamecocks. The 2010 National College Baseball Champs.

    goodnews

  • Uncle DP said...

    You're not a scientist are you? I can tell by the way you don't quite grasp the scientific method.

    If science were rock solid that it isn't a choice, then by god, science is rock solid that people are born that way. Likewise, if science is inconclusive on whether or not people are born that way, science is going to be inconclusive on whether or not it's a choice.

    Not true. I wasn't straight when I was 3 months old. I was completely asexual. Then I turned, I don't know, 9 or 10, and started to realize that boobs are awesome.

    Being a choice and being born that way aren't mutually exclusive.

    ramssuperbowl99 ●

  • sf2k4 said...

    'Cause I don't give a sh!t what someone else does in their free time. None of my damn business.

    Apparently you do. I could quote quite a few posts from TT alone that would prove differently.

    Uncle DP

  • goodnews said...

    I appreciate your honest answer. I don't want to put words in your mouth so I'd appreciate a little clarity on your first answer. Are you really saying that the only people entitled to their opinion are the ones who think gay marriage is right? Are you saying that homosexual beliefs are so important that they trump anyone else's beliefs? Is the issue important enough that you're willing to trample on so many? If so, why?

    As to my second question, I suppose what I'm asking is what's the driving motivation to make the change? Financial benefits? To make the couple feel equal or somehow happier? B/c some folks just like to feel morally superior to others? Something else? Since the country is currently, generally, one that recognizes traditional marriage, I'm simply talking about changing the current laws.

    http://imgur.com/XubqJ

    That's the best way I can explain it the whole "freedom of religion". You are not free to take rights away from other people.

    To make the couple feel happier and equal with other couples, and to eliminate discrimination based on sexual orientation.

    ramssuperbowl99 ●

  • goodnews said...

    I appreciate your honest answer. I don't want to put words in your mouth so I'd appreciate a little clarity on your first answer. Are you really saying that the only people entitled to their opinion are the ones who think gay marriage is right? Are you saying that homosexual beliefs are so important that they trump anyone else's beliefs? Is the issue important enough that you're willing to trample on so many? If so, why?

    As to my second question, I suppose what I'm asking is what's the driving motivation to make the change? Financial benefits? To make the couple feel equal or somehow happier? B/c some folks just like to feel morally superior to others? Something else? Since the country is currently, generally, one that recognizes traditional marriage, I'm simply talking about changing the current laws.

    Traditional under whose rules? Have you ever been to a Jewish wedding? Vastly different from a Christian wedding. Same with a Hindu one, a Buddhist one... and the rules for so are also. Hell, even Paganism has rules for their marriages. The United States, however, does not have an official religion (nor do we have a national language) and we cannot legislate on the basis of showing favoritism for one religion or the other. Is it about legal benefits? It would appear so. Christian churches don't conduct Jewish weddings, Jewish temples don't conduct Christian weddings, why shouldn't a U.S. court room conduct any and all of the above?

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    sf2k4 ●

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