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Obama just blew more smoke....

  • rms02d said...

    Also what "liberal" regulations is the state of Florida using to prevent drilling in their waters?

    Last time I checked, since I grew up there, the Florida legislature is and has always been dominated by republicans.

    its a federal regulation, not State.

    MDS00NER

  • Siap (did not read threa) but... Who is this 'More Smoke' guy and did obama swallow?

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    AUVTM

  • rms02d said...

    The temporary ban on offshore drilling was eliminated back in October 2010. So not sure what you are complaining about in regard to drilling in the Gulf of Mexico outside of state waters. Increasing the amount of permits to drill isn't going to drastically reduce the price.

    US demand for oil has DECREASED by about 2.5 million barrels a DAY over the past 5 years. So its obvious that the price increase in gas is not directly correlated to American supply and demand.

    Foreign companies aren't benefiting by drilling oil that we refuse to drill, because the price of oil is set by the world financial markets and the worlds demand. Also if gas is drilled by a private corporation, what makes you think they will sell it to the US, if they can get a better price in Argentina?

    The US cannot decrease the price of oil by opening up more land for exploration. If the US only has 2% of the worlds known reserves, and consumes 20% of the worlds oil, then how is increasing domestic production going to help?

    The price of oil is decided in international markets and not by the US government. The fact that we have the lowest gas taxes in the developed world makes it sound silly when Americans complain about gas prices because we don't pay a lot relatively speaking.

    Gas prices always go up in the spring, as commodity traders purchase oil contracts in anticipation of the "summer driving season". Also the purchase of oil futures contracts tend to increase the spot price of oil when investors expect an improvement in the economic business cycle.

    The current "rise" in price is completely normal for this time of year. If anything the increase in oil prices is an economic indicator that the US economy and European economies are improving, and not proof that things are getting worse because Obama is a Nazi.

    Point 1-
    Federal Ban on offshore drilling (within 200 miles of the US coast) until at least 2017

    http://oilandgasdrilling.blogspot.com/2010/12/obama-freezes-until-2017-expansion-of.html

    This is important because the last study by the US Minerals Management Service (MMS) estimated undiscovered conventionally recoverable resources in Atlantic federal waters to be 7,200,000,000 barrels (1.14×109 m3) of oil and 27.5 trillion cubic feet (TCF) gas.

    Again as mentioned by me earlier, this does not count in your little 2% figure because without the ability to do exploratory drilling, these resources can't be counted as "proven". So as I mentioned earlier, continuing to use that 2% number as compared to our 20% usage is very disengenuous. And since this seems to be the basis of your argument, we have differing reality assumptions.

    As for the idea of the US being spoiled by low gas taxes compared to the world is silly, we have the lowest tax rates in general BY FAR in the world because we are still (At least for now) not socialist in nature. So it is not silly if we feel that our government is again overtaxing something....

    Yes, you are correct Gas prices typically rise every year at this time, and then are reduced, but the alarming trend is that unlike years past, over the past 5 years, Gas prices have risen at a much higher pace, and when they drop, they drop to a rate that would have been considered high to start with. So The spike up has been higher and the adjustment back down has been less dramatic so that steadily the prices have been rising as a whole, much faster. Again, this IS a function of supply and demand and the policies that our government has put in place.

    IT is very simple, yes oil prices are determined by financial markets and demand, but they are also determined by Supply, which is largely dominated and controlled by middle eastern countries, many of which do not sell to us, but do to Europe and China. The only way to stop this is to change the supply diametric, and the only way to do that is to drill. The only way to show what potential we have and are not tapping, is to do exploratory drilling the amounts that are potentially at our fingertips would move that 2% number up to a much more effective percentage with respect to supply.

    Only an apologist of current policy could make your last statement, that the increase of Oil to its current level is an indicator of the US and European economies improving. This is a sign of markets being concerned over supply due to the unrest in Syria and Iran NOT an indication of increased demand that an economic spark would indicate (especially since you yourself also pointed out that overall demand has DECREASED in the past 5 years.

    MDS00NER

  • MDS00NER said...

    Ahh another Dem calling Republicans heartless, there is a difference between safety regulations and environmental regulations. Not once have I questioned reasonable safety regulations.

    Put words in my mouth much? I never said Republicans were heartless, nor implied it.

    And I've seen several people argue on here for no regulations, including safety regulations. They contend that people wouldn't work for a company who had none- which isn't true if the norm was for companies to have few or none.

    Also, environmental regulations, as pointed out by the other guy, have as much to do with people not wanting their air filled with smoke or their drinking water polluted, fishing areas ruined, as it does the 'fringe environmentalists.'

    Put it like this: are you willing to live next to an oil refinery, or paper mill?

    TalHawkins112

  • TalHawkins112 said...

    Put words in my mouth much? I never said Republicans were heartless, nor implied it.

    And I've seen several people argue on here for no regulations, including safety regulations. They contend that people wouldn't work for a company who had none- which isn't true if the norm was for companies to have few or none.

    Also, environmental regulations, as pointed out by the other guy, have as much to do with people not wanting their air filled with smoke or their drinking water polluted, fishing areas ruined, as it does the 'fringe environmentalists.'

    Put it like this: are you willing to live next to an oil refinery, or paper mill?

    No you didnt call Republicans heartless, what you said was: "Ironically, if Republicans had their way and there were no regulations and safety regulations" this implies that the heartless republicans want to openly and carelessly destroy the environment, and the claim is ridiculous, even the most openly capitalist GOP doesn't believe in ZERO safety regulations, but the inferrance was there. Just like a few years ago, when republicans wanted more budget cuts including cuts in the growth of the school lunch program, all you saw were dems out saying that heartless republicans wanted kids to go hungry....

    I grew up in a small Mississippi town where International Paper had a large mill occasionally youd smell it, it employed a good bit of the town, the other main employer was Armstrong Rubber... Both of those companies are gone, and the town has gone to hell, most folks I talk too say they wish the mill was back.
    And now, 30 years later I live on the Chesapeake Bay in Southern Maryland, less than 5 miles from a Nuclear power plant, and I am fine with that, even though there is a huge lobby here to eliminate it. Not surprisingly these are the same people complaining about mean spirited energy companies gouging energy prices in Maryland.
    As for refineries, there are plenty of areas proposed for refineries that are MILES away from residential areas, but are still being protested into oblivion, not by locals, who would appreciate the employment, but by professional protestors. Think these don't exist? Pick up a copy of the Washington Post and look in the classifieds under "Activist"...

    MDS00NER

  • MDS00NER said...

    This is fundamentally incorrect because it is based on percentage, yes, by percentage, there are higher percentage of social program consumers, but when you look at raw data, the real story comes out. In raw dollars received, NY, PA, CA, MA, IL and MI are all at the top of the list... FAR outweighing the dollars spent in red states.

    In fact CA alone outspends the following typically red states COMBINED: AK, NE, NV, UT, WV, NM, AR, MS, OK, LA, and AK

    Add NY, NJ, Mass, PA, MI, WI, MN, DC and IL, and they outspend the rest of the country. Thats Ten states outspending the other 41 in entitlement dollars.

    So when you are looking at DOLLARS which is what you do when you are looking to make cuts and budgets, the cute little red blue US maps showing % of population and dollars spent per recieved etc do nothing but obfuscate the truth... the blue states FAR outspend the rest of the country.

    Source: US Government spending.com

    now, run those numbers against populations

    california oupopulates the follwing red states COMBINED

    AK, 710,231
    NE, 1,826,341
    NV, 2,700,551
    UT, 2,763,885
    WV, 1,852,994
    NM, 2,059,179
    AR, 2,915,918
    MS, 2,967,297
    OK, 3,751,351
    LA, 4,533,372
    AK (TWICE ?) NO, so i assume it is AR, at 2,915,918

    which is just about at 26 million

    meanwhile, californee has how many? 37,253,956
    yeah, when you wanna OBFUSCATE IT...

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    GoingLightBarny

  • BetterOff said...

    Again, the education level is not very high on the conservative side of things. They are really only good at a handful of things, most notably, watching people turn left in circles on Sunday.

    Nice observation retards. Do you know the reason for this? Its because the country was founded up North, has more population, and was the center for the industrialization of America. If the damn pilgirims would've landed in Georgia or South Carolina it'd probably be reversed. Not to mention the destruction of the civil war set back the south in almost every way possible. So congratulations on being the recipient of things from hundreds of years ago.

    Liberals are the ones sitting in the middle of Wall Street saying give me, give me. Democrats are saying lets just give all these lazy wastes of life whatever they want, hell while we're at it why don't we just join the EU? Since that model has worked so well for them. Since we're doin that, let's just do away with immigration laws. Open up the gates and let whoever in. It doesn't effect you guys as much right? Being in the North mostly and all they won't take too many of your jobs or start another Mexican Mafia or cartel. Maybe all the problems that comes with them will stay in Mexico.

    I'm all for a person coming in to our country to better themselves. This nation was founded on it. But why is it such a big damn deal to do it the right way?? Go through the process and become a citizen. Pay taxes and don't rape the country of all its benefits if you aren't prepared to give some back since it has given you so much. End of rant.

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    Bamafan8

  • Bamafan8 said...

    Nice observation retards. Do you know the reason for this? Its because the country was founded up North, has more population, and was the center for the industrialization of America. If the damn pilgirims would've landed in Georgia or South Carolina it'd probably be reversed. Not to mention the destruction of the civil war set back the south in almost every way possible. So congratulations on being the recipient of things from hundreds of years ago.

    Liberals are the ones sitting in the middle of Wall Street saying give me, give me. Democrats are saying lets just give all these lazy wastes of life whatever they want, hell while we're at it why don't we just join the EU? Since that model has worked so well for them. Since we're doin that, let's just do away with immigration laws. Open up the gates and let whoever in. It doesn't effect you guys as much right? Being in the North mostly and all they won't take too many of your jobs or start another Mexican Mafia or cartel. Maybe all the problems that comes with them will stay in Mexico.

    I'm all for a person coming in to our country to better themselves. This nation was founded on it. But why is it such a big damn deal to do it the right way?? Go through the process and become a citizen. Pay taxes and don't rape the country of all its benefits if you aren't prepared to give some back since it has given you so much. End of rant.

    as i recall, there were a bunch of republicans up at congress talkin about gimme gimme gimme...

    hmmm... what were they doing there?

    oh, yeah, getting bailouts.

    oh, and just to keep some semblance of truth here... the occupy demands were less gimme gimme gimme than stop ffkfin me fffkin me fffkin me

    Occupy Demands
    1: Campaign Finance Reform: Campaigns will be 100% funded by the $3 Presidential Campaign Fund. This will no longer be optional on returns and $3 will be taken from everyone in lieu of having the choice to pay that $3 in taxes. No more dinner events where people pay thousands of dollars per plate of food to donate. This will take the candidates out of the pockets of those more fortunate and put it back in the hands of the American people.

    2A: 3 Term Limit for Congress: This needs to be done to keep fresh ideas flowing, as well as to prevent a pack mentality and life-long political enemies that evolve and begin to erode the political process. This is most evident over the past few years where almost no bills of any importance can pass through congress without the opposing side attaching the names of the most disliked members of congress with the bill as a way to prevent it from passing. Term one for all current members would start in the 2012 election cycle

    2B: Terms served determines percentage of benefits for Congress. This is self-explanatory, but as with any job, the longer you work the more benefits you generally received. We propose members of Congress who serve three full terms receive full benefits. 75% for two term members and 50% for a single term.

    3A: No more bonuses for Management in pseudo government business such as Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. Any agency that would cause the American tax payer to be held liable for its failure should not be permitted to pay bonuses to executives for taking risks to boost their numbers.

    3B: Break-up any company that is deemed to be “too large to fail”. Any private business entity has the risk of failing in a capitalistic system, but when they become so large that they would take down the entire economy if they fail, they have to be split. If there is no risk of going under and failing due to the belief they will be bailed out, then they can do unsafe things to reap rewards in the good times without having to worry about the consequences in bad.

    4: No more trading of commodity futures by investors. This has been written off as non-consequential, but the fact remains, when people can change markets without the intention of actually purchasing that commodity it raises the prices of food, heating and other fuels for everyone. Commodity investing should not be allowed unless the person making the purchase is deemed to be able to take the delivery they purchase.

    and just in case you did not read them, they don't sound very "liberal"' at all... that was just a ploy by the people in charge to rile up the retard reactionists to oppose them in a knee-jerk response...

    looks like the people in charge know more about how dummy the american people are than the ones protesting... the movement is not about people wanting any damn thing for free... it is about people wanting to stop being fffked.

    you would think the tea party retards woulda stood behind them, but no, they were too stupid and took the bait, qualifying anarchists as hippies.

    i could go on, but i think that will prove it enough

    This post was edited by GoingLightBarny on 3/8/2012 at 9:47 AM

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  • Being on the left has worked out pretty well for Canada lately. The argument that handouts are the reason the EU struggles just isn't accurate.

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    mriderblue12

  • mriderblue12 said...

    Being on the left has worked out pretty well for Canada lately. The argument that handouts are the reason the EU struggles just isn't accurate.

    lets not try and use silly ass logic...

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    GoingLightBarny

  • Fatarat said...

    Actually, the red states (also known as the entire south) are the poorest states and the largest consumers of social programs in the Nation.

    Nothing funnier than watching idiots vote against their own self-interest. rockon

    Because of all the blacks and Mexicans, get rid of them and our nation is great again

    LScootU

  • Fatarat said...

    But you can't do that and disparage people on welfare as lazy people who don't want a job at the same time.

    Never been to New Orleans

    LScootU

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    You want to talk about blowing smoke? Newt promising $2.50/gal gas...

    How is that blowing smoke? Gas was lower than that before Obama was elected.

    GaNole1

  • The funny thing about these threads are when the Democrats defend Obama like he's done anything he promised.

    I voted for Obama. Turns out he was just another Bush. Big spending, big gov't, increased debt, same shitty economy, yeah... lets re-elect Obama. Lol.

    Harry Callahan

  • mriderblue12 said...

    Being on the left has worked out pretty well for Canada lately. The argument that handouts are the reason the EU struggles just isn't accurate.

    Words of wisdom from a 20 yr old that has never paid a single tax in his life. Tell us more!

    Harry Callahan

  • Harry Callahan said...

    The funny thing about these threads are when the Democrats defend Obama like he's done anything he promised.

    I voted for Obama. Turns out he was just another Bush. Big spending, big gov't, increased debt, same shitty economy, yeah... lets re-elect Obama. Lol.

    There aint a single one of them that are going to do what they promise. The winner of the election is just the guy that got the most people to believe his lies.

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    spcbuzzard

  • rms02d said...

    The temporary ban on offshore drilling was eliminated back in October 2010. So not sure what you are complaining about in regard to drilling in the Gulf of Mexico outside of state waters. Increasing the amount of permits to drill isn't going to drastically reduce the price.

    US demand for oil has DECREASED by about 2.5 million barrels a DAY over the past 5 years. So its obvious that the price increase in gas is not directly correlated to American supply and demand.

    Foreign companies aren't benefiting by drilling oil that we refuse to drill, because the price of oil is set by the world financial markets and the worlds demand. Also if gas is drilled by a private corporation, what makes you think they will sell it to the US, if they can get a better price in Argentina?

    The US cannot decrease the price of oil by opening up more land for exploration. If the US only has 2% of the worlds known reserves, and consumes 20% of the worlds oil, then how is increasing domestic production going to help?

    The price of oil is decided in international markets and not by the US government. The fact that we have the lowest gas taxes in the developed world makes it sound silly when Americans complain about gas prices because we don't pay a lot relatively speaking.

    Gas prices always go up in the spring, as commodity traders purchase oil contracts in anticipation of the "summer driving season". Also the purchase of oil futures contracts tend to increase the spot price of oil when investors expect an improvement in the economic business cycle.

    The current "rise" in price is completely normal for this time of year. If anything the increase in oil prices is an economic indicator that the US economy and European economies are improving, and not proof that things are getting worse because Obama is a Nazi.

    You must be living in your parents basement.

    The United States has far more oil reserves than 2% because that only represents the oil production. If the oil was not available why would companies wish to drill for it? Oil is not the problem, this administration is and this administration talks out of both sides of their ass. Open the new pipeline from Canada if it doesn’t matter, and stop saying we can not drill our way out of this. We know gas prices are high now so let’s try to drill more, because drilling more sure has lowered natural gas prices even with a rise in demand.

    As far as the temporary ban that you say ended to Oct 2010, I call bullshit. Oil rigs are still departing the Gulf due to permit restrictions by this administration. Oil rigs will drill somewhere on the globe, and if we run them from the gulf it makes getting the oil more difficult.

    I do not think Obama is a Nazi just a liberal that has said he does not mind gas prices going up. What a heart for the poor, because they can afford higher gas prices better than anyone.

    GaNole1

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    now, run those numbers against populations

    california oupopulates the follwing red states COMBINED

    AK, 710,231 NE, 1,826,341 NV, 2,700,551 UT, 2,763,885 WV, 1,852,994 NM, 2,059,179 AR, 2,915,918 MS, 2,967,297 OK, 3,751,351 LA, 4,533,372 AK (TWICE ?) NO, so i assume it is AR, at 2,915,918

    which is just about at 26 million

    meanwhile, californee has how many? 37,253,956 yeah, when you wanna OBFUSCATE IT...

    Which was my point exactly, the debate is about dollars spent, not percentages, you do not balance a budget by cutting your lowest expenditure by 50% you cut it by tackling your highest expenditures. The original argument said that red states were taking most of the entitlements by percentage. I pointed out that from a budgeting point of view that this argument was disengenuous, and it is. The blue states use the majority of the dollars BY far and yes its because of population, thanks captain obvious...

    MDS00NER

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    as i recall, there were a bunch of republicans up at congress talkin about gimme gimme gimme...

    hmmm... what were they doing there?

    oh, yeah, getting bailouts.

    oh, and just to keep some semblance of truth here... the occupy demands were less gimme gimme gimme than stop ffkfin me fffkin me fffkin me

    Occupy Demands 1: Campaign Finance Reform: Campaigns will be 100% funded by the $3 Presidential Campaign Fund. This will no longer be optional on returns and $3 will be taken from everyone in lieu of having the choice to pay that $3 in taxes. No more dinner events where people pay thousands of dollars per plate of food to donate. This will take the candidates out of the pockets of those more fortunate and put it back in the hands of the American people.

    2A: 3 Term Limit for Congress: This needs to be done to keep fresh ideas flowing, as well as to prevent a pack mentality and life-long political enemies that evolve and begin to erode the political process. This is most evident over the past few years where almost no bills of any importance can pass through congress without the opposing side attaching the names of the most disliked members of congress with the bill as a way to prevent it from passing. Term one for all current members would start in the 2012 election cycle

    2B: Terms served determines percentage of benefits for Congress. This is self-explanatory, but as with any job, the longer you work the more benefits you generally received. We propose members of Congress who serve three full terms receive full benefits. 75% for two term members and 50% for a single term.

    3A: No more bonuses for Management in pseudo government business such as Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. Any agency that would cause the American tax payer to be held liable for its failure should not be permitted to pay bonuses to executives for taking risks to boost their numbers.

    3B: Break-up any company that is deemed to be “too large to fail”. Any private business entity has the risk of failing in a capitalistic system, but when they become so large that they would take down the entire economy if they fail, they have to be split. If there is no risk of going under and failing due to the belief they will be bailed out, then they can do unsafe things to reap rewards in the good times without having to worry about the consequences in bad.

    4: No more trading of commodity futures by investors. This has been written off as non-consequential, but the fact remains, when people can change markets without the intention of actually purchasing that commodity it raises the prices of food, heating and other fuels for everyone. Commodity investing should not be allowed unless the person making the purchase is deemed to be able to take the delivery they purchase.

    and just in case you did not read them, they don't sound very "liberal"' at all... that was just a ploy by the people in charge to rile up the retard reactionists to oppose them in a knee-jerk response...

    looks like the people in charge know more about how dummy the american people are than the ones protesting... the movement is not about people wanting any damn thing for free... it is about people wanting to stop being fffked.

    you would think the tea party retards woulda stood behind them, but no, they were too stupid and took the bait, qualifying anarchists as hippies.

    i could go on, but i think that will prove it enough

    Okay, I wont say you made that up, but if you go to OccupyWallSt.org it is clearly stated that there is NO official list of demands (which is typical for protests of this nature, because if they have no official demands, they cannot be addressed), but there are many blogs that are put forth, and here is a very popular one (front page of the website forum section), here are the 13 demands made:

    Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending “Freetrade” by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

    Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

    Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

    Demand four: Free college education.

    Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

    Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

    Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America’s nuclear power plants.

    Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

    Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

    Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

    Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the “Books.” World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the “Books.” And I don’t mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

    Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

    Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

    It is very clear by looking at these that the folks who support these demands have absolutely ZERO underestanding of economics... and are clearly looking to be "given" a living.

    This post was edited by MDS00NER on 3/9/2012 at 6:36 AM

    MDS00NER

  • MDS00NER said...

    This is fundamentally incorrect because it is based on percentage, yes, by percentage, there are higher percentage of social program consumers, but when you look at raw data, the real story comes out. In raw dollars received, NY, PA, CA, MA, IL and MI are all at the top of the list... FAR outweighing the dollars spent in red states.

    In fact CA alone outspends the following typically red states COMBINED: AK, NE, NV, UT, WV, NM, AR, MS, OK, LA, and AK

    Add NY, NJ, Mass, PA, MI, WI, MN, DC and IL, and they outspend the rest of the country. Thats Ten states outspending the other 41 in entitlement dollars.

    So when you are looking at DOLLARS which is what you do when you are looking to make cuts and budgets, the cute little red blue US maps showing % of population and dollars spent per recieved etc do nothing but obfuscate the truth... the blue states FAR outspend the rest of the country.

    Source: US Government spending.com

    MDS00NER said...

    Which was my point exactly, the debate is about dollars spent, not percentages, you do not balance a budget by cutting your lowest expenditure by 50% you cut it by tackling your highest expenditures. The original argument said that red states were taking most of the entitlements by percentage. I pointed out that from a budgeting point of view that this argument was disengenuous, and it is. The blue states use the majority of the dollars BY far and yes its because of population, thanks captain obvious...

    ha ha ha ha...

    okay, captian obfuscator...

    why didn't you say that, then? you were too busy trying to make your invalid point against another invalid point.

    if you are so worried about budgeting, get on government waste and redundancy before you start talking about programs... the point of the partisanship argument on BOTH sides is to obfuscate the truth of the matter, that the programs are spread equally, and are used equally. Entitlement spending on households is surprisingly "flat" in the U.S. -- the spending is distributed proportionately among the various income groups. However, federal spending tilts in favor of the rich when you add corporate welfare to the mix. And this pro-wealthy favoritism becomes more pronounced when you consider who is paying for it: over the last few decades, the tax rates for the rich have sharply fallen, both in personal income and corporate taxes.

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  • MDS00NER said...

    It is very clear by looking at these that the folks who support these demands have absolutely ZERO underestanding of economics... and are clearly looking to be "given" a living.

    uh huh...

    are you an economist?

    Amazon.com: Debt: The First 5,000 Years (9781933633862): David Graeber: Books

    Amazon.com: Debt: The First 5,000 Years (9781933633862): David Graeber: Books

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  • MDS00NER said...

    Okay, I wont say you made that up, but if you go to OccupyWallSt.org it is clearly stated that there is NO official list of demands (which is typical for protests of this nature, because if they have no official demands, they cannot be addressed), but there are many blogs that are put forth, and here is a very popular one (front page of the website forum section), here are the 13 demands made:

    ha ha ha ha...

    if you go to occupy wall street .org.. blah blah blah...

    here, this is from that site... same list i posted

    Forum Post: Occupy Demands - Pass it along - Post on Facebook | OccupyWallSt.org

    Occupy Demands 1: Campaign Finance Reform: Campaigns will be 100% funded by the $3 Presidential Campaign Fund. This will no longer be optional on returns and $3 will be taken

    occupywallst.org
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  • occupy wall street people smell really bad. occupy lost all creditability when they decided to steal, do drugs, damage private property, and rape their own.

    GaNole1

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    ha ha ha ha...

    if you go to occupy wall street .org.. blah blah blah...

    here, this is from that site... same list i posted

    had not read this , thanks for the heads up

    signature image

    shoeless7777

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    ha ha ha ha...

    okay, captian obfuscator...

    why didn't you say that, then? you were too busy trying to make your invalid point against another invalid point.

    if you are so worried about budgeting, get on government waste and redundancy before you start talking about programs... the point of the partisanship argument on BOTH sides is to obfuscate the truth of the matter, that the programs are spread equally, and are used equally. Entitlement spending on households is surprisingly "flat" in the U.S. -- the spending is distributed proportionately among the various income groups. However, federal spending tilts in favor of the rich when you add corporate welfare to the mix. And this pro-wealthy favoritism becomes more pronounced when you consider who is paying for it: over the last few decades, the tax rates for the rich have sharply fallen, both in personal income and corporate taxes.

    I did say it, in my original post, go reread..... I can't help it if you missed it.

    MDS00NER