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Over signing rule ?

  • VaHorn said...

    Actually, no. We are just pointing out that we signed 95 to get our 85 and you signed 140.

    So, you oversigned by 10, in the state that you basically run, still suck, and have to resort to showing Tamu fans that they oversigned by more than you did to justify the growing gap between the programs?

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    TheT12

  • http://www.law.tulane.edu/tlsAcademicPrograms/sportsblog.aspx?id=16523&BlogID=32328

    "Notional" Letter of Intent: College Football Offers More Than It Can Deliver, Part 1

    By: Justin N. Fielkow

    This week, young men across the country signed their National Letters of Intent, a momentous occasion and tremendous achievement in their lives. Unfortunately, for some, both the process and the conclusion will not be what they envisioned. This is the first of a three-part series that will analyze the National Letter of Intent system and the concept of oversigning in major college football. This post will provide a general introduction to the history and rules governing the National Letter of Intent and the doctrine of oversigning in college football. Part Two will then analyze the legality and potential remedies of oversigning, including a promissory estoppel cause of action and breach of contract claim. Finally, Part Three will put the ethics and morality of the practice of oversigning, as it relates to the current world of big-money college football, on figurative trial.

    Introduction to Oversigning: How It Works and How It Fails

    With nothing more than a wish and a prayer that a university will honor its scholarship offer to a prospective student-athlete, countless young men, such as Elliot Porter, have their verbal commitments vanish into thin air due to the unsavory practice of oversigning.1 Elliot Porter received a scholarship offer to play football at Louisiana State University in the summer of 2009. In July, Porter was one of the first verbal commitments to LSU's 2010 recruiting class.2 In February 2010, Porter signed a National Letter of Intent (NLI) with LSU, qualified academically, enrolled early, reported to summer school in June 2010, and started taking classes.3 Yet, after misjudging how many of his academically shaky signees would qualify and reaching the maximum 25-new-player scholarship limit, head coach Les Miles informed Porter that there was no room for him on scholarship at LSU.4 Porter was granted a release from his Letter of Intent and instead accepted a scholarship at the University of Kentucky.5 Porter disliked Kentucky and returned to LSU, where he is now a walk-on paying his own way for two years before he can finally get the football scholarship LSU promised him as a high school senior.6

    Porter's situation is not unique. Often, the unlikely-to-contribute players at the bottom of an incoming class are asked to "grayshirt," dutifully delaying their enrollment (or paying their way for a semester), until there is room for them in the next class, regardless of what a coach promised them during their recruitment or the fact that they signed an NLI. Additionally, every year "thousands" of high school seniors find themselves scrambling for scholarships after coaches simply rescind non-binding scholarship offers because they found more talented players and are forced to comply with the NCAA's signing limits.7

    Part 2
    http://www.law.tulane.edu/tlsAcademicPrograms/sportsblog.aspx?id=16539&BlogID=32328

    Part 3
    http://www.law.tulane.edu/tlsAcademicPrograms/sportsblog.aspx?id=16570&BlogID=32328

    dpfenny

  • USMCAG said...

    No, you're just an idiot. No signing class is over 25.

    Stop calling people an idiot when you have yet to give an explanation that makes sense. How can A&M take 19 last year and 34 this year according to that rule?

    19 + 34 (6 early enrolls counting toward last year) = 25 in 2012 and 28 in 2013. So how can A&M take 3 over the limit?

    To people you are calling idiots, this looks like signing 53 in a two year period. There's no way a team can sign 53 without oversigning...unless you just have terrible attrition/abuse medical redshirts AND have guys running to the NFL draft after 3 years (which is an extremely small portion of that number)...which starts to look like oversigning...stop calling people idiots when you haven't offered an answer to their question.

    hardware_sushi

  • Sadly, the Elliot Porter situation does nothing to deter Miles and other coaches from continuing the practice of over signing. In fact, it strengthens it. It's a no-lose situation for Miles.

    Miles yanks the scholarship from Porter but ultimately ends up with a higher rated recruit AND Porter. If Porter is good enough to start, Miles will gladly give him a scholarship because he's a known commodity. If he doesn't work out, Miles never wastes a scholarship on him, and the kid either remains a walk-on or leaves LSU. Either way, Miles wins.

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    MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13

    Due51

  • Alonzo Harris said...

    Kiffin coached in what, 3?

    coached in? You mean as the OC, which doesn't count.

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    Macdaddy7930

  • TheT12 said...

    So, you oversigned by 10, in the state that you basically run, still suck, and have to resort to showing Tamu fans that they oversigned by more than you did to justify the growing gap between the programs?

    Growing gap? Hahhaa ha!

    VaHorn

  • Hyprocrisy on message boards is hilarious.

    Again cry-babies, point the fingers at your own team or conference before you b&m about others. Teams in every conference do it, but only the SEC is called out because our conference has had great results on the field.

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    Macdaddy7930

  • I would love for the NCAA to make each scholarship good for four years like the Big Ten does. The SEC coaches wouldn't know what to do.

    getmyjive11

  • The beauty of this is that no explanation has to be given to online fans. If you want to cry about it, contact the NCAA and cry to them, otherwise shut the censored up.

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    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG

  • USMCAG said...

    The beauty of this is that no explanation has to be given to online fans. If you want to cry about it, contact the NCAA and cry to them, otherwise shut the censored up.

    Not crying, I just think it's funny that you guys could possibly have 24 WRs on your roster. Think about that.

    getmyjive11

  • getmyjive11 said...

    Not crying, I just think it's funny that you guys could possibly have 24 WRs on your roster. Think about that.

    Sumlin is loading up on WR's to have a heavy rotation throughout the game. It doesn't matter what explanation that we give, it will always be wrong according to online fans, I'm sure you know how that goes.

    signature image signature image signature image

    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG

  • USMCAG said...

    Sumlin is loading up on WR's to have a heavy rotation throughout the game. It doesn't matter what explanation that we give, it will always be wrong according to online fans, I'm sure you know how that goes.

    I guess he wants to roll with a 6 deep depth chart at every WR position. Hey, he's a good coach and he can do whatever he wants, but when you do that, something is going to be thin. It's just the way it is.

    getmyjive11

  • getmyjive11 said...

    I guess he wants to roll with a 6 deep depth chart at every WR position. Hey, he's a good coach and he can do whatever he wants, but when you do that, something is going to be thin. It's just the way it is.

    He knows something that we don't.

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    SEC SEC SEC!!!

    USMCAG

  • MrWoodson said...

    Again, I'm not taking shots at any particular team. But Houston Nutt and Bobby Petrino admitted to culling and I can't believe it doesn't happen a little bit by a lot of coaches. There is too much pressure to win and almost no one is going to turn away an extra couple of elite recruits every year if they can "creatively" find a way to squeeze them in.

    I would totally change the rules. I would make it very simple. The rule would be that a team could add up to 23 new players to its roster every year and that's it. If a player leaves the team for any reason (injury, grades, criminal conduct, quits), the team cannot replace him. Basically, pick your 23 carefully because you don't get any "do overs". Of course, with redshirting, teams could theoretically have up to 115 scholarship players at a time. That is not likely to happen because everyone will have some attrition, but it would mean that the teams that recruit and manage their rosters the best would have an advantage over those that don't. It effectively flips the incentives around such that teams would be doing everything possible to keep kids academically eligible and on the team rather than culling them so they can squeeze in a few extra new recruits every year.

    And it's incredibly simple. No keeping track of how many in each class or worrying about EEs and backdating. Every team can add up to 23 new players to its roster every year and that's it. Done.

    I totally disagree with this. What is wrong with back counting and whatnot and making players earn their scholarships? No matter how good the talen evaluation is, not every player signed is going to pan out. If you limit teams to 23 like you stated, you also cost lots of kids scholarships and chances to go to college. Those players that many bitch about being processed still have a free ride to college. What's wrong with that?

    ROLL TIDE!

    rollingtide2004

  • Verbal commitments are not the same as signees. Why can't people understand that? One year, Bama had 29 commitments and people went crazy. 2 got drafted in the MLB draft, a couple more didnt qualify academically, and a couple more transferred out. However, Oversigning.com never changed their numbers and led everyone to believe that Bama signed 100% of their commitments. SEC haters ran with false information to prove their points. Anybody can post things that are not true to make a team or conference look bad. Wait to see how many TX A&M actually signs and are on the roster next fall before you assume that all 34 will count against the 25/85 rule.

    justinboze

  • justinboze said...

    Verbal commitments are not the same as signees. Why can't people understand that? One year, Bama had 29 commitments and people went crazy. 2 got drafted in the MLB draft, a couple more didnt qualify academically, and a couple more transferred out. However, Oversigning.com never changed their numbers and led everyone to believe that Bama signed 100% of their commitments. SEC haters ran with false information to prove their points. Anybody can post things that are not true to make a team or conference look bad. Wait to see how many TX A&M actually signs and are on the roster next fall before you assume that all 34 will count against the 25/85 rule.

    Don't bring facts in here. The rantards can't handle it.

    ROLL TIDE!

    rollingtide2004

  • USMCAG said...

    He knows something that we don't.

    Hopefully for you guys, he doesn't do what he did to Houston and leave aTm in a bad spot 3-4 years down the road because he was trying to get as man skill guys as possible.

    getmyjive11

  • rollingtide2004 said...

    I totally disagree with this. What is wrong with back counting and whatnot and making players earn their scholarships? No matter how good the talen evaluation is, not every player signed is going to pan out. If you limit teams to 23 like you stated, you also cost lots of kids scholarships and chances to go to college. Those players that many bitch about being processed still have a free ride to college. What's wrong with that?

    You should guarantee the scholarship for 4 years where a school simply can't cut the kids who aren't getting it done on the field. You also shouldn't be able to sign 35 guys knowing that some won't make it. I have no problem with "back signing" or greyshirting, but signing too many kids and then telling some that there wasn't enough room WAY after signing day is BS.

    getmyjive11

  • Agreed. Fla & Auburn now offer 4 year schollies just like B1G. They get it. Trying to rationalize accepting 35 commits is silly. Offer 4 year schollies & this isnt an issue!

    Jagstyle

  • justinboze said...

    Verbal commitments are not the same as signees. Why can't people understand that? One year, Bama had 29 commitments and people went crazy. 2 got drafted in the MLB draft, a couple more didnt qualify academically, and a couple more transferred out. However, Oversigning.com never changed their numbers and led everyone to believe that Bama signed 100% of their commitments. SEC haters ran with false information to prove their points. Anybody can post things that are not true to make a team or conference look bad. Wait to see how many TX A&M actually signs and are on the roster next fall before you assume that all 34 will count against the 25/85 rule.

    So there's nothing wrong to you to accept 50 verbals but on LOI day only sending out 25 and telling the other 25 kids at that point to fvck off?

    No ethical problems involved there?

    ducklefty

  • ducklefty said...

    So there's nothing wrong to you to accept 50 verbals but on LOI day only sending out 25 and telling the other 25 kids at that point to fvck off?

    No ethical problems involved there?

    That's not what we intend to do. We plan on signing them all, except those that don't qualify.

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    choog

  • getmyjive11 said...

    You should guarantee the scholarship for 4 years where a school simply can't cut the kids who aren't getting it done on the field. You also shouldn't be able to sign 35 guys knowing that some won't make it. I have no problem with "back signing" or greyshirting, but signing too many kids and then telling some that there wasn't enough room WAY after signing day is BS.

    That's BS in my opinion. If you don't perform, you get your scholarship cut. I had an academic scholarship cut for not performing, why should it be different with football. You're getting a free education. You can stay on the team, just not on scholarship.

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    choog

  • getmyjive11 said...

    You should guarantee the scholarship for 4 years where a school simply can't cut the kids who aren't getting it done on the field. You also shouldn't be able to sign 35 guys knowing that some won't make it. I have no problem with "back signing" or greyshirting, but signing too many kids and then telling some that there wasn't enough room WAY after signing day is BS.

    I agree with you on taking too many commits and then not being able to sign them all. I do not agree with the 4 year scholarship rule tho. If I'm on an academic scholarship then I have to maintain a certain GPA, etc or I lose it. Same thing with an athletic scholarship IMO

    ROLL TIDE!

    rollingtide2004

  • choog said...

    That's BS in my opinion. If you don't perform, you get your scholarship cut. I had an academic scholarship cut for not performing, why should it be different with football. You're getting a free education. You can stay on the team, just not on scholarship.

    The difference is, I imagine your academic scholarship wasn't pulled because the soon to be rhodes scholar at a nearby high school decided to go to your school. I'm sure you had to maintain a certain GPA, and you knew what had to be done.

    Or did they tell you, sorry we brought in a great freshmen class that raised the curve higher than what you were told. So even though we told you to maintain a 3.5 and you did, regretfully the retroactive standard is 3.7. Good luck finding an academic schollie as a transfer. Don't let the library door hit you on the way out.

    It's too bad so many of these good kids down south get taken advantage of. One of these days, a pissed of father will deck Saban or the like, and it will be completely deserved.

    NcaaAssassinG13

  • NcaaAssassinG13 said...

    The difference is, I imagine your academic scholarship wasn't pulled because the soon to be rhodes scholar at a nearby high school decided to go to your school. I'm sure you had to maintain a certain GPA, and you knew what had to be done.

    Or did they tell you, sorry we brought in a great freshmen class that raised the curve higher than what you were told. So even though we told you to maintain a 3.5 and you did, regretfully the retroactive standard is 3.7. Good luck finding an academic schollie as a transfer. Don't let the library door hit you on the way out.

    It's too bad so many of these good kids down south get taken advantage of. One of these days, a pissed of father will deck Saban or the like, and it will be completely deserved.

    I agree with this. There needs to be something to keep kids from getting taken advantage of and that's a shame. But coaches should be able to cut kids and not commit to a full 4 years with them. Some kids can take advantage of that system too.

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    choog