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SpartanRocky said...
My question is what if people cannot care for themselves? Terminally ill individuals / mentally handicapped people / permanently disabled individuals.
I don't believe that the government should just pay otherwise healthy people to not work indefinitely. I also realize that times are very tough and when that happens, some people are going to need more time to find gainful employment. Is a year enough time? 6 months? 3 months? 2 years?
There's a big difference between a skilled laborer who's been laid off, and the person who won't get off their couch.
The healthcare issue . . . man, that's tough. On one end, you don't want anyone who needs help to be denied, but look at the people who willfully make horrible health decisions and then become a burden to society because of it? Smokers and overweight people put a pretty big burden on health care; I think everyone agrees that if this nation took better care of itself physically, there would be a lot less stress on the health care system.
Then again, my grandpa just beat lung cancer and the gov. paid for most of it. He's a Korean war vet who worked his whole life, raised 3 daughters (my mom and my aunts), been married to my grandma for 60 years (and counting) and smoked for 35-40+ years before the dangers of cigarette smoking were known. Had been 20 years or so since he had a cig, but ended up with cancer regardless. At this stage in life, there's no way he could afford the treatments himself.
In that scenario (and I admit I'm a bit biased), I have little problem with the government helping him out. Not only did he serve in the military, but was gainfully employed from the time he left the service till the day he retired. I feel that he contributed a lot to society, and in return for that service, he was entitled to some assistance.
I have no doubt that there are many stories out there like my grandpa, and I'd suppose a look at the individual scenarios is required before you can declare that someone deserves or doesn't deserve assistance for healthcare. Not sure where to draw the line though . . .
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SpartanRocky said...
I don't know. I know there are members of our society who currently contribute nothing to it financially, but drain resources. That doesn't just include the people on welfare, but the mentally handicapped, disabled folks, whether they are veterans or others and people with terminal illnesses. Oh, and babies/children/stay at home parents, etc.
Basically, if you don't have a job, you're taking up resources while contributing nothing to society.
I think your scenario of "I'll take care of mine, you take care of yours" works in small town settings, but at a certain point, the population gets big enough to where, by the law of averages, you're going to have people who are born who do not contribute as much as others. I am under the impression that you have no sympathy for people so situated and if they are unable to fend for themselves, well, tough luck.
Feel free to enlighten me if this is not your view point.
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xxmgobluexx said...
So, you're still dealing with absolutes? Am I to assume then that you are ok with the entire workforce quiting and living off of government assistance for earnings, healthcare, housing...?
See my preceding post, I realize people need help, I don't know the solution.
As for the no sympathy, I thought we have had enough discussion in the past for you not to act that way, I guess not. For how I feel on my sympathy, my wife and I adopted 3 children, 2 of them came from a home that abused them physically, the boy possibly sexually (at 18 months old, there were signs but couldn't prove it). We deal with problems to this day because of those POS parents, but we take care of our own. One of my sister in laws recently had a child with downs. She struggles as a single mom, we help in a variety of ways, we take care of our own. We have had a brother, 2 different sisters, and my in-laws live with us at various times in the past 15 years, we take care of our own...
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sf2k4 said...
So what if your sister in law with the child with downs didn't have y'all? What if she had had a husband who was "taking care of his own" but he died in a car accident? And let's say she also has PoS parents and no other family? What do you say to her? Tough shit?
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sf2k4 said...
Again, you're equating moochers and leaches with people who actually need help. It's all fine and dandy to say things like, "Just take care of your own," but some people are trying very hard to do that and it's simply not enough. Those people need help. That's not wrong.
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SpartanRocky said...
My question is what if people cannot care for themselves? Terminally ill individuals / mentally handicapped people / permanently disabled individuals.
I don't believe that the government should just pay otherwise healthy people to not work indefinitely. I also realize that times are very tough and when that happens, some people are going to need more time to find gainful employment. Is a year enough time? 6 months? 3 months? 2 years?
There's a big difference between a skilled laborer who's been laid off, and the person who won't get off their couch.
The healthcare issue . . . man, that's tough. On one end, you don't want anyone who needs help to be denied, but look at the people who willfully make horrible health decisions and then become a burden to society because of it? Smokers and overweight people put a pretty big burden on health care; I think everyone agrees that if this nation took better care of itself physically, there would be a lot less stress on the health care system.
Then again, my grandpa just beat lung cancer and the gov. paid for most of it. He's a Korean war vet who worked his whole life, raised 3 daughters (my mom and my aunts), been married to my grandma for 60 years (and counting) and smoked for 35-40+ years before the dangers of cigarette smoking were known. Had been 20 years or so since he had a cig, but ended up with cancer regardless. At this stage in life, there's no way he could afford the treatments himself.
In that scenario (and I admit I'm a bit biased), I have little problem with the government helping him out. Not only did he serve in the military, but was gainfully employed from the time he left the service till the day he retired. I feel that he contributed a lot to society, and in return for that service, he was entitled to some assistance.
I have no doubt that there are many stories out there like my grandpa, and I'd suppose a look at the individual scenarios is required before you can declare that someone deserves or doesn't deserve assistance for healthcare. Not sure where to draw the line though . . .
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sf2k4 said...
What are your thoughts on, say, a very smart individual who comes from a poor family that has the drive and aspirations to become a rocket scientists (first thing I could think of). So this individual works hard in school and manages to get accepted into MIT. Now, even if this student works a near full-time job while in school, they'll come up pretty short on the tuition. Are you supportive of scholarships and/or financial aid to help this person get into a great school, one they've worked hard for and are deserving to get into, or do you think there is a financial barrier to higher education?
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CMXI said...
According to Mitt Romney, your grandfather is a dirty moocher, and we shouldn't give him a dime. He doesn't pay any income taxes, so he can go straight to hell. It's his own fault he didn't have enough to pay for his cancer treatments out of pocket, I mean, why didn't he just sell one of his caribbean villas? Or his extra Gulfstream V? I mean, there are simple solutions here, but he was just being a lazy bum and he deserves everything he gets.
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Republicans are detached from America