The Blue Board

Gotta love elections bringing out the true colors. I've definitely lost some friends over the last few weeks for similar reasons.

Amen. The polarity is insane. I even tried to talk to said "friend" and tried to tell him we're all Americans and we all want the best for this country, we just disagree on the means. You know "united we stand, divided we fall" type of stuff, and all he had to say was "I hope you go to hell".

I hope you understand that their earnings are the same. In your scenerio, I am glad that the person took on the debt to better themself. It is a personal choice that should lead to a brighter future than they had before, and should lead to a brighter future for their children. Live within their means, pay off the debt.

I don't understand how folks can't have empathy for their fellow man/woman/American.

I don't know if this is directed at me, but I am going to assume that it is, at least indirectly.

Here is my take on it. I do care. That is why we adopted 3 children. As I said in another post, 2 of the children came from an abusive home. On top of that, we donate time and money to help others. What I don't want is the government deciding who I should or shouldn't be caring about.

This is nothing compared to 2000 and 2004.

Yet immigrants every day come from situations much worse and make a good living in America. It is idiotic to think that everyone should/could start on the same base. That is not what America is about. The important thing is that there are no walls that make it impossible to get from 1st base to 2nd base, etc.

Once again, in regards to the skyrocketing education costs, look no further than the gov involvement over the last 40+ years to "make it more affordable".

LOSAH

Immigrants coming every day and making a good living is without a doubt the exception, not the rule. For every immigrant success story, there are 50 day laborers still picking fruit for starvation wages.

All I can say is that if you truly, truly believe that there are no barriers to social mobility, you're delusional.

As for education costs, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you saying government involvement with education costs over the last 40 years is an example of the removal of barriers to social mobility?

Look, we're going in circles. I'm not attacking your hard work to provide for your daughters, so please stop taking everything I say in that manner.

I'm saying that it's a very middle-class attitude to believe that we're all on a level playing field and anyone can "work your way up." For a large percentage of the people in the U.S., they don't "get back what they put into it." As an attorney, I work 60-80, sometimes 100 hours/week, and I'm very well-compensated for my work. While yes, I've put in a considerable amount of work to get to where I am today, I freely admit that there are millions of people who work longer hours, in more demanding jobs, and get paid a fraction of what I do. I have friends who worked just as hard as I did in every possible respect from day one, who aren't nearly as successful as I am, and conversely, I have some friends who are more successful than I am, and have put in less work.

As I pointed out in the New York Times article I cited a few pages back, the most accurate predictor of where you'll end up on the income scale is where you start, i.e. the income level in which you were raised. Personally, I don't think that's fair. That's not the land of opportunity. When the number-one predictor of future financial success is how much money your parents made, and not how hard you work, or the number of hours you put in at the job, something needs to change.

Now, you may or may not agree with that last point. You also may not feel any obligation to your fellow man, and if you want to adopt the "screw you, I got mine" attitude, that's your prerogative. Personally, I follow Carnegie's "Gospel of Wealth" - I believe it's my duty, as a successful citizen of the United States, to work towards ensuring that every other citizen has the same opportunities I had. If that's the main point of disagreement between you and I, so be it.

I'm going with White America

That would be my guess. This is like every idiotic "Take Back America" slogan that politicians have been running on. Take back America? From who? The only people who can rationally be said to have "taken" some of America are the ever-increasing number of minorities in this country...