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shavisimo2 ●
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CMXI said...
Look, we're going in circles. I'm not attacking your hard work to provide for your daughters, so please stop taking everything I say in that manner.
I'm saying that it's a very middle-class attitude to believe that we're all on a level playing field and anyone can "work your way up." For a large percentage of the people in the U.S., they don't "get back what they put into it." As an attorney, I work 60-80, sometimes 100 hours/week, and I'm very well-compensated for my work. While yes, I've put in a considerable amount of work to get to where I am today, I freely admit that there are millions of people who work longer hours, in more demanding jobs, and get paid a fraction of what I do. I have friends who worked just as hard as I did in every possible respect from day one, who aren't nearly as successful as I am, and conversely, I have some friends who are more successful than I am, and have put in less work.
As I pointed out in the New York Times article I cited a few pages back, the most accurate predictor of where you'll end up on the income scale is where you start, i.e. the income level in which you were raised. Personally, I don't think that's fair. That's not the land of opportunity. When the number-one predictor of future financial success is how much money your parents made, and not how hard you work, or the number of hours you put in at the job, something needs to change.
Now, you may or may not agree with that last point. You also may not feel any obligation to your fellow man, and if you want to adopt the "screw you, I got mine" attitude, that's your prerogative. Personally, I follow Carnegie's "Gospel of Wealth" - I believe it's my duty, as a successful citizen of the United States, to work towards ensuring that every other citizen has the same opportunities I had. If that's the main point of disagreement between you and I, so be it.
92DT
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VTLocal79 ●
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CMXI said...
Look, we're going in circles. I'm not attacking your hard work to provide for your daughters, so please stop taking everything I say in that manner.
I'm saying that it's a very middle-class attitude to believe that we're all on a level playing field and anyone can "work your way up." For a large percentage of the people in the U.S., they don't "get back what they put into it." As an attorney, I work 60-80, sometimes 100 hours/week, and I'm very well-compensated for my work. While yes, I've put in a considerable amount of work to get to where I am today, I freely admit that there are millions of people who work longer hours, in more demanding jobs, and get paid a fraction of what I do. I have friends who worked just as hard as I did in every possible respect from day one, who aren't nearly as successful as I am, and conversely, I have some friends who are more successful than I am, and have put in less work.
As I pointed out in the New York Times article I cited a few pages back, the most accurate predictor of where you'll end up on the income scale is where you start, i.e. the income level in which you were raised. Personally, I don't think that's fair. That's not the land of opportunity. When the number-one predictor of future financial success is how much money your parents made, and not how hard you work, or the number of hours you put in at the job, something needs to change.
Now, you may or may not agree with that last point. You also may not feel any obligation to your fellow man, and if you want to adopt the "screw you, I got mine" attitude, that's your prerogative. Personally, I follow Carnegie's "Gospel of Wealth" - I believe it's my duty, as a successful citizen of the United States, to work towards ensuring that every other citizen has the same opportunities I had. If that's the main point of disagreement between you and I, so be it.
xxmgobluexx ●
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xxmgobluexx said...
Not all jobs are equal. No way a knucle dragger digging a ditch for should be paid the same as the engineer who designed that ditch. There are plenty of people who countless hours at menial jobs, and that is all the will ever do. I was a laborer at one time. I was talking to another laborer who was in his 40's. I asked him why he wasn't an operator yet? He didn't want to be. More responsibilty and he liked hard labour. I thought he was idiot, but it takes all kinds to build roads. You can work your way up in America, it isn't easy. I don't know what you don't understand about that. Some may have a harder time getting to the "top", but with work and perseverance, they can get there, or close to it.
I see no problem with the leading predictor of where someone ends up on the income scale being where they start. Somebody put the work in to get them there. Donald Trumps kids have a headstart, good for them that they had a dad that made sure his children were setup. Same with the Kennedy's, the Walton's, the Bush's... I don't have a problem with that at all.
Good for following Carnegie. We all have our calling and/or follow what we believe. There are a few words from James that I hold dear, we are to take care of the orphans and widows.
This post was edited by hownowbrowncow on 11/8/2012 at 2:32 PM
hownowbrowncow
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shavisimo2 said...
Yes. Liberals get so much more bitter than Conservatives when they lose elections...
Both sides get bitter, just how it is. No need to say liberals are worse at it. When it's the party that disagrees with you spewing bitter nonsense, it's always gonna seem worse.
dpfenny
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xxmgobluexx said...
Not all jobs are equal. No way a knucle dragger digging a ditch for should be paid the same as the engineer who designed that ditch. There are plenty of people who countless hours at menial jobs, and that is all the will ever do. I was a laborer at one time. I was talking to another laborer who was in his 40's. I asked him why he wasn't an operator yet? He didn't want to be. More responsibilty and he liked hard labour. I thought he was idiot, but it takes all kinds to build roads. You can work your way up in America, it isn't easy. I don't know what you don't understand about that. Some may have a harder time getting to the "top", but with work and perseverance, they can get there, or close to it.
I see no problem with the leading predictor of where someone ends up on the income scale being where they start. Somebody put the work in to get them there. Donald Trumps kids have a headstart, good for them that they had a dad that made sure his children were setup. Same with the Kennedy's, the Walton's, the Bush's... I don't have a problem with that at all.
Good for following Carnegie. We all have our calling and/or follow what we believe. There are a few words from James that I hold dear, we are to take care of the orphans and widows.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
SpartanRocky ●
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shavisimo2 ●
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xxmgobluexx ●
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SpartanRocky ●
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Grand Slam said...
If that means targeting policies toward the rich instead of the middle class you'd be wrong, but I also agree that all the social bullshit needs to be dropped.
Check out my 2 deep of UM's base 4-3 under defense, let me know your thoughts. Last updated: 3/28/12
I3usdriver
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dpfenny
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Grand Slam ●
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Republicans are detached from America