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***Scoop and Q&A live from The Opening***

  • heatheatheat said...

    Shaq Wiggins is a tremendous cover corner... Might be best out there. His side of field essentially was off limits in semis and championship game.

    Ryan Green is a top notch RB... My top 3 based on complete skillet would be Tyren Jones, Ryan Green and Zeke Elliott with Kamara and Tenpenny close behind. I think a "TOP" RB today has to be able to do more than line up in the backfield and take the handoff...which these guys do very well but they are tremendous assets in passing game as well.

    you realize Tyren Jones wasnt out there right

    MaybeNxtYear ●

  • heatheatheat said...

    Shaq Wiggins is a tremendous cover corner... Might be best out there. His side of field essentially was off limits in semis and championship game.

    Ryan Green is a top notch RB... My top 3 based on complete skillet would be Tyren Jones, Ryan Green and Zeke Elliott with Kamara and Tenpenny close behind. I think a "TOP" RB today has to be able to do more than line up in the backfield and take the handoff...which these guys do very well but they are tremendous assets in passing game as well.

    Agree on the 1st 4 but what have you seen by Tenpenny besides a good SPARQ and being muscular/vascular?

    I'm not saying he isn't top 5 potential RB but these sites put too much emphasis on SPARQ Scores and aesthetic appearance which is why guys like Ray Rice, MJD, Mark Ingram and Doug "The Muscle Hamster" Martin were all so underrated coming out of high school. Film/Game Performance coupled with level of competition should be 90% of the equation. You can assess RB pass-catching skills in camps but I have no idea how RBs get ratings bumps from camps.

    This post was edited by BamaBornDukie on 7/8/2012 at 10:07 PM

    Kevin Durant is moving up in my favorite All-Time Athletes list. Mama raised him right.

    BamaBornDukie

  • MaybeNxtYear said...

    you realize Tyren Jones wasnt out there right

    He is referring to overall ratings.... Not just performance at The Opening.

    This post was edited by BamaBornDukie on 7/8/2012 at 10:07 PM

    Kevin Durant is moving up in my favorite All-Time Athletes list. Mama raised him right.

    BamaBornDukie

  • MaybeNxtYear said...

    you realize Tyren Jones wasnt out there right

    Yes I know that...was giving my opinion on RB's overall after seeing these guys in action

    This post was edited by heatheatheat on 7/8/2012 at 10:20 PM

    heatheatheat ●

  • BamaBornDukie said...

    Agree on the 1st 4 but what have you seen by Tenpenny besides a good SPARQ and being muscular/vascular?

    I'm not saying he isn't top 5 potential RB but these sites put too much emphasis on SPARQ Scores and aesthetic appearance which is why guys like Ray Rice, MJD, Mark Ingram and Doug "The Muscle Hamster" Martin were all so underrated coming out of high school. Film/Game Performance coupled with level of competition should be 90% of the equation. You can assess RB pass-catching skills in camps but I have no idea how RBs get ratings bumps from camps.

    I feel you on Tenpenny...I am in wait and see mode but all the experts are pumping his potential and that he is destined to be 5* star so I sort of am giving him the benefit of the doubt. But I do have a wait and see mode. I watched him coming out of the backfield and he did not look very comfortable catching the ball with his hands.

    heatheatheat ●

  • richardparker10 said...

    I only saw the championship game but thought Woodard was dominant. He completely shut his guys down and came up with that nice interception. Ryan Green and Ezekiel Elliott will be multifaceted deadly weapons at the next level for sure. Steven Mitchell looks underrated, as well.

    Woodward played well as well...Shaq was in a lot of camera shots and I sort of of honed in on him and watched him rep after rep successfully jam the receiver at the line, throw him off his route and then run with him step for step in and out of breaks. He also appears to be a very heady player as I saw him squat several times to try and bait Max into thinking something might be there. I think he demonstrated a skillset the compensates well for his lack of ideal size as a corner.

    heatheatheat ●

  • BamaBornDukie said...

    Agree on the 1st 4 but what have you seen by Tenpenny besides a good SPARQ and being muscular/vascular?

    I'm not saying he isn't top 5 potential RB but these sites put too much emphasis on SPARQ Scores and aesthetic appearance which is why guys like Ray Rice, MJD, Mark Ingram and Doug "The Muscle Hamster" Martin were all so underrated coming out of high school. Film/Game Performance coupled with level of competition should be 90% of the equation. You can assess RB pass-catching skills in camps but I have no idea how RBs get ratings bumps from camps.

    I understand you love T.Jones, but one thing you have to take into consideration is his O-Line is one of the best in the Nation when the pads are on. Put a healthy Tenpenny behind them, he will have the same numbers as Jones, if not better..

    signature image signature image signature image

    RollTideBeast

  • RollTideBeast said...

    I understand you love T.Jones, but one thing you have to take into consideration is his O-Line is one of the best in the Nation when the pads are on. Put a healthy Tenpenny behind them, he will have the same numbers as Jones, if not better..

    IDK Tyren Jones is a beast he doesnt need a great OL to be good... Watch him after he gets to the next level of the field he either breaks their ankles or runs through them and hes hard to bring down with a good spin move.

    MaybeNxtYear ●

  • RollTideBeast said...

    I understand you love T.Jones, but one thing you have to take into consideration is his O-Line is one of the best in the Nation when the pads are on. Put a healthy Tenpenny behind them, he will have the same numbers as Jones, if not better..

    Slippery slope argument here...I could very well say you put Tyren in Arkansas against that level of competition and he might have a 4000 yard, 50+ TD season...his OL was/is pretty good but he gained a ton of yards making guys miss at LOS and then using vision, elusiveness and power to do his damage

    heatheatheat ●

  • RollTideBeast said...

    I understand you love T.Jones, but one thing you have to take into consideration is his O-Line is one of the best in the Nation when the pads are on. Put a healthy Tenpenny behind them, he will have the same numbers as Jones, if not better..

    The coaches will be very happy to hear we had one of best OLs in country. 3 new starters last year, 4 this coming year. Only one last signed to play DII.

    Woodrow

  • MrWoodson said...

    As soon as Shane is done locking up Treadwell, he needs to start working on flipping Jaylon.

    nono

    signature image

    star69

  • Ducksworth said...

    That's the point of the word "opinion"... Me personally, I trust the opinions of the 247 guys and will trust them on what they see. Obviously it's not 100%, so take it for what it's worth.

    Also, I have never seen a rating of 11 before, congratulations.

    Youngsters a legend on our board.. Barny would be jealous, trying to guide the young fella, Future Nova without the knowledge,lol

    signature image

    star69

  • heatheatheat said...

    Slippery slope argument here...I could very well say you put Tyren in Arkansas against that level of competition and he might have a 4000 yard, 50+ TD season...his OL was/is pretty good but he gained a ton of yards making guys miss at LOS and then using vision, elusiveness and power to do his damage

    Heat3x....

    Arkansas high school football is NOT good. Heck, Arkansas [The University] has probably less than 10 offers to players in the state. As I stated yesterday, Grayson and Walton football teams individually/alone have more 4-5 star players than the entire state of Arkansas.

    Take a look at the top 50 & top 100 times in the 100m dash in Arkansas in 2012. This is a more "objective" method to compare that overall speed and to some extent athleticism of the states.

    Arkanasas: http://ar.milesplit.com/rankings/2012/outdoor/hs/m/100m
    Top 50: 11.25
    Top 100: 11.44

    ****Tenpenny ran 11.50 this 2012 Season

    Georgia: http://ga.milesplit.com/rankings/2012/outdoor/hs/m/100m/1
    Top 50: 10.86
    Top 100: 10.98

    ****Jones ran 11.04 in 2011 and 11.08 in 2012

    Those numbers say the same thing about Arkansas vs Georgia as do the 247Sports Rankings. Georgia is the SEC to Arkansas' Conference USA. Yet these sites give a RB playing in Arkansas more credit for less production in a state with less than average high school football? Really? Guys my logical, reasoning skills have waned.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by BamaBornDukie on 7/9/2012 at 6:27 AM

    Kevin Durant is moving up in my favorite All-Time Athletes list. Mama raised him right.

    BamaBornDukie

  • RollTideBeast said...

    I understand you love T.Jones, but one thing you have to take into consideration is his O-Line is one of the best in the Nation when the pads are on. Put a healthy Tenpenny behind them, he will have the same numbers as Jones, if not better..

    You seriously have no clue about evaluating football players. ZERO!

    Kevin Durant is moving up in my favorite All-Time Athletes list. Mama raised him right.

    BamaBornDukie

  • So BBD I know you have some clear opinions about 7 vs 7 and these type of camps. I remember you saying that certain positions don't matter at camps at all and shouldn't affect rankings of prospects at all. What positions should and should not be evaluated at these camps?

    signature image signature image signature image

    kitemac

  • heatheatheat said...

    I feel you on Tenpenny...I am in wait and see mode but all the experts are pumping his potential and that he is destined to be 5* star so I sort of am giving him the benefit of the doubt. But I do have a wait and see mode. I watched him coming out of the backfield and he did not look very comfortable catching the ball with his hands.

    Taped some of the events from the weekend and I also noticed that Derrick Green nor Tenpenny seemed to be natural "pluckers"/hand catchers. They both seemed to be trying to "body" catch. Seems that some of the bigger/downhill RBs lack that "hand-catching" skill. I also noticed the same lack of ball-skills from the big-time 2014 RB Fournette out of Louisiana. Saw him at the Rivals 5 Star Challenge here in ATL. Big, physical, fast kid but he also lacked top-level pass-catching skills.

    These pass catching skills are why I like the other 4 RBs you listed as it is tough to stop a RB that can beat you in a myriad of ways.

    This post was edited by BamaBornDukie on 7/9/2012 at 3:46 PM

    Kevin Durant is moving up in my favorite All-Time Athletes list. Mama raised him right.

    BamaBornDukie

  • kitemac said...

    So BBD I know you have some clear opinions about 7 vs 7 and these type of camps. I remember you saying that certain positions don't matter at camps at all and shouldn't affect rankings of prospects at all. What positions should and should not be evaluated at these camps?

    I think you can get a fairly good assessment of the skill level of QBs (Pro-Style), WRs, and DBs as the skills displayed in camp translate pretty well to the field.

    You can also evaluate LBs in terms of pass defense skills. Can't really measure their physicality and ability to hold-up against the running game.

    Typically, I don't think you can effectively evaluate OL/DL beyond athleticism. However, the Opening did have the guys [from states which allowed them to] compete in pads. Much better evaluation for lineman in pads.

    You can evaluate RBs in terms of pass catching but some of the more physical RBs (Derrick Green, Fournette) can't really showcase their power/strength in this enviroment. Essentially, the primary objective of a RB is to avoid tackles either via speed, elusiveness, or strength/power....and thus the primary objective of a RB can't be evaluated in a camp setting without pads.

    I do believe SPARQ gives an accurate assessment of an athletes "raw" athletic skills but raw athletic ability doesn't necessarily mean good football player. There is this dude in one of my flag football leagues that I know can run a hand-timed high 4.2x/electronically low 4.3x. Dude is muscular and shredded but he is NOT even 1 of the top 10 players in our flag football league as he can't catch and he lacks agility/shiftiness. Dude would beat everyone in our league in a SPARQ but he is not a great football player. Even in tackle football his "raw" athletic skill wouldn't translate favorably to the football field.

    I do think All-Purpose RBs or RBs that show great ball/pass catching skills in a camp can get a bump as that skill directly translates onto the football field. However, there is no way I'd bump a RB "just because" of a SPARQ score as I know several "raw" freak athletes that are NOT very skilled in terms of being a football player. I do think a high SPARQ from a recruit should cause analysts to go back and re-evaluate a RBs film more closely but "raw" athleticism alone doesn't mean you can carry the rock at a high level.

    This post has been edited 4 times, most recently by BamaBornDukie on 7/9/2012 at 3:45 PM

    Kevin Durant is moving up in my favorite All-Time Athletes list. Mama raised him right.

    BamaBornDukie

  • BamaBornDukie said...

    I think you can get a fairly good assessment of the skill level of QBs (Pro-Style), WRs, and DBs as the skills displayed in camp translate pretty well to the field.

    You can also evaluate LBs in terms of pass defense skills. Can't really measure their physicality and ability to hold-up against the running game.

    Typically, I don't think you can effectively evaluate OL/DL beyond athleticism. However, the Opening did have the guys [from states which allowed them to] compete in pads. Much better evaluation for lineman in pads.

    You can evaluate RBs in terms of pass catching but some of the more physical RBs (Derrick Green, Fournette) can't really showcase their power/strength in this enviroment. Essentially, the primary objective of a RB is to avoid tackles either via speed, elusiveness, or strength/power....and thus the primary objective of a RB can't be evaluated in a camp setting without pads.

    I do believe SPARQ gives an accurate assessment of an athletes "raw" athletic skills but raw athletic ability doesn't necessarily mean good football player. There is this dude in one of my flag football leagues that I know can run a hand-timed high 4.2x/electronically low 4.3x. Dude is muscular and shredded but he is NOT even 1 of the top 10 players in our flag football league as he can't catch and he lacks agility/shiftiness. Dude would beat everyone in our league in a SPARQ but he is not a great football player. Even in tackle football his "raw" athletic skill wouldn't translate favorably to the football field.

    I do think All-Purpose RBs or RBs that show great ball/pass catching skills in a camp can get a bump as that skill directly translates onto the football. However, there is no way I'd bump a RB because of a SPARQ score as I know several "raw" freak athletes that are very skilled in terms of being a football player. I do think a high SPARQ from an unknown recruit should cause analysts to go back and re-evaluate a RBs film more closely but "raw" athleticism alone doesn't mean you can carry the rock at a high level.

    Agree for the most part. So are you saying OJ should or should not get a bump due to this camp. You mentioned QBs, WRs, and DBs but not TEs. Just curious.

    BTW I agree with you on the RBs part just about the whole way.

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    kitemac

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