Online Now 3511

The Blue Board

We aren't just committed to college football; we're early enrolling in it.

On this Board 2914
Record: 7394 (2/14/2012)

Online now 3329
Record: 18710 (2/25/2012)

Boards ▾

The Blue Board

We aren't just committed to college football; we're early enrolling in it.

The Green Board

Where the madness isn't just in March.

Big Ten Board (Beta)

Reply

State of Pennsylvania suing NCAA UPDATED

  • Leppycole said...

    The issue for the state is proclamation of reason - if it is driven by a financial hardship in relation to attendance at football games than they may have a case as PSU is semi private and relies on the money generated by the football team to fund other programs.

    The state however has no legs considering the NCAA is an association with membership privileges that come with conditions and penalties based on votes - other institutions voted and agreed the NCAA was justified in their decision. The statement that will be made is that PSU has the option to leave the NCAA - but that would be suicide.

    I'm reading the official complaint from PA's offices right now.

    It appears that one direction from which they'll attack the sanctions is the economic impact on both people hired by PSU and the businesses in the surrounding area. Also, PSU receives over $200m from the state and since the money is fungible, it can't be guaranteed that none of that money will be used in paying the fines.

    The state also has accused the NCAA of 1) not following its bylaws and procedures, 2) in fact, directly violating the bylaws that state only the Committee on Infractions can mete out sanctions, 3) trying to enhance the competitiveness of the programs of the current board University Presidents.

    Take a look, the document is attached. Another article is attached that describes some arguments that the NCAA could present, and how the state can rebut those arguments. Seems like the state has a reasonable case, and answer to each challenge that the NCAA can propose.

    I know you didn't post this, but I can't believe anyone would actually try to argue that the NCAA is truly voluntary in participation. What other options are there? Leave and play in the NAIA? It's obvious the NCAA is a monopoly, and that's something the state has also addressed.

    The Citizens' Voice: Commonwealth of Pa. v. NCAA - Jan. 2, 2013

    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/550546-corbett.html

    www.documentcloud.org

    Analyzing key issues in Pennsylvania's case against NCAA - College Football - Michael McCann - SI.com

    When Penn State hastily accepted the NCAA's sanctions for the school's involvement in the Jerry Sandusky scandal, the NCAA's authority to punish members for off-field criminal conduct seemed assured. But Pennsylvania governor Tom Corbett has decided to stand up and challenge the authority of college sports' governing body by filing a lawsuit on behalf of the state in federal court. The lawsuit will be mainly based on antitrust law, with the core argument that the NCAA and its member institutions -- which compete on the field and in recruiting student-athletes -- conspired to punish Penn State on grounds outside the NCAA's regulatory authority. Reading between the lines, Corbett -- who in a press conference Wednesday morning described the sanctions as

    sportsillustrated.cnn.com
    signature image

    psubills62 ●

  • So what happened to this?

    “The appalling actions of a few people have brought us once again into the national spotlight. We have taken a monster off the streets and while we will never be able to repair the injury done to these children, we must repair the damage to this university.

    “Part of that corrective process is to accept the serious penalties imposed today by the NCAA on Penn State University and its football program.” – Gov. Tom Corbett in July after sanctions announced

    Leppycole ●

  • Leppycole said...

    Gov. Tom Corbett in July after sanctions announced

    Everyone knows Corbett is a politicking POS who will say anything to keep his office. He took the heat off himself by blaming everyone early, now that he knows he's going to lose his office in a year, he's trying to save it by going the other way. Total scum.

    This post was edited by shavisimo2 on 1/2/2013 at 1:37 PM

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2 ●

  • Leppycole said...

    So what happened to this?

    “The appalling actions of a few people have brought us once again into the national spotlight. We have taken a monster off the streets and while we will never be able to repair the injury done to these children, we must repair the damage to this university.

    “Part of that corrective process is to accept the serious penalties imposed today by the NCAA on Penn State University and its football program.” – Gov. Tom Corbett in July after sanctions announced

    He finally realized who voted him into office and who would vote him out of office.

    Certainly not denying it's a political move, and Corbett is as sleazy as they come.

    signature image

    psubills62 ●

  • Leppycole said...

    The issue for the state is proclamation of reason - if it is driven by a financial hardship in relation to attendance at football games than they may have a case as PSU is semi private and relies on the money generated by the football team to fund other programs.

    The state however has no legs considering the NCAA is an association with membership privileges that come with conditions and penalties based on votes - other institutions voted and agreed the NCAA was justified in their decision. The statement that will be made is that PSU has the option to leave the NCAA - but that would be suicide.

    The bolded language is why the NCAA has been held by the U.S. Supreme Court to be a monopoly and why the "voluntary association" argument fails. It's irrelevant. And it's why we have antitrust laws. Once an entity establishes itself as a monopoly, the rules change. A monopoly, unlike a non-monopoly, cannot do whatever it wants. It must act in a commercially reasonable manner and it cannot take actions that would constitute an unfair restraint on trade. That is what the complaint alleges, that PSU's (and many others') rights to fair trade have been unfairly and unreasonably violated.

    It's irrelevant that the NCAA is a "voluntary association." It's a monopoly. There is nothing "voluntary" about joining the NCAA for a school that wants to participate in major college sports. The NCAA, via membership, controls the market for major college sports. As such, it is required to act reasonably when adopting rules and dealing with all of its members. It cannot adopt clearly unreasonable rules or procedures and it cannot treat some members differently than others. It's against the law.

    The NCAA is on very thin ice in how they dealt with PSU. Their best argument is that the PSU scandal was a unique situation. That might justify the unusually harsh sanctions, but it doesn't justify bypassing all the NCAA's normal processes and procedures. The NCAA never should have bypassed its normal enforcement processes and procedures. It was pure arrogance by Mark Emmert. It was unnecessary and has left the NCAA vulnerable.

    MrWoodson ●

  • shavisimo2 said...

    Everyone knows Corbett is a politicking POS who will say anything to keep his office. He took the heat off himself by blaming everyone early, now that he knows he's going to lose his office in a year, he's trying to save it by going the other way. Total scum.

    Corbett's motives for filing the lawsuit are irrelevant. The only question is whether the NCAA violated the Sherman Act or not.

    This post was edited by MrWoodson on 1/2/2013 at 1:50 PM

    MrWoodson ●

  • MrWoodson said...

    The bolded language is why the NCAA has been held by the U.S. Supreme Court to be a monopoly and why the "voluntary association" argument fails. It's irrelevant. And it's why we have antitrust laws. Once an entity establishes itself as a monopoly, the rules change. A monopoly, unlike a non-monopoly, cannot do whatever it wants. It must act in a commercially reasonable manner and it cannot take actions that would constitute an unfair restraint on trade. That is what the complaint alleges, that PSU's (and many others') rights to fair trade have been unfairly and unreasonably violated.

    It's irrelevant that the NCAA is a "voluntary association." It's a monopoly. There is nothing "voluntary" about joining the NCAA for a school that wants to participate in major college sports. The NCAA, via membership, controls the market for major college sports. As such, it is required to act reasonably when adopting rules and dealing with all of its members. It cannot adopt clearly unreasonable rules or procedures and it cannot treat some members differently than others. It's against the law.

    The NCAA is on very thin ice in how they dealt with PSU. Their best argument is that the PSU scandal was a unique situation. That might justify the unusually harsh sanctions, but it doesn't justify bypassing all the NCAA's normal processes and procedures. The NCAA never should have bypassed its normal enforcement processes and procedures. It was pure arrogance by Mark Emmert. It was unnecessary and has left the NCAA vulnerable.

    I don't know much about law, none of my degrees come to close to it. But can non-profit organization be considered a monopoly? I vaguely understand that the OK case was concerning TV rights, that has to do with the open market and the NCAA over reaching by impacting it

    This post was edited by InTresslWeTrust on 1/2/2013 at 2:15 PM

    signature image signature image

    InTresslWeTrust ●

  • MrWoodson said...

    The bolded language is why the NCAA has been held by the U.S. Supreme Court to be a monopoly and why the "voluntary association" argument fails. It's irrelevant. And it's why we have antitrust laws. Once an entity establishes itself as a monopoly, the rules change. A monopoly, unlike a non-monopoly, cannot do whatever it wants. It must act in a commercially reasonable manner and it cannot take actions that would constitute an unfair restraint on trade. That is what the complaint alleges, that PSU's (and many others') rights to fair trade have been unfairly and unreasonably violated.

    It's irrelevant that the NCAA is a "voluntary association." It's a monopoly. There is nothing "voluntary" about joining the NCAA for a school that wants to participate in major college sports. The NCAA, via membership, controls the market for major college sports. As such, it is required to act reasonably when adopting rules and dealing with all of its members. It cannot adopt clearly unreasonable rules or procedures and it cannot treat some members differently than others. It's against the law.

    The NCAA is on very thin ice in how they dealt with PSU. Their best argument is that the PSU scandal was a unique situation. That might justify the unusually harsh sanctions, but it doesn't justify bypassing all the NCAA's normal processes and procedures. The NCAA never should have bypassed its normal enforcement processes and procedures. It was pure arrogance by Mark Emmert. It was unnecessary and has left the NCAA vulnerable.

    In regard to the bolded part, the lawsuit addresses this with four examples of criminal acts by Universities which the NCAA did not impose sanctions for. The best example was the Baylor case where the coach covered up a murder. Baylor's sanctions were not due to the criminal act but rather recruiting violations which are strictly prohibited in the NCAA "manual".

    After reading the lawsuit, I don't know how anyone thinks that the NCAA didn't overstepped their boundaries and are in a heap of trouble.

    This post was edited by getmyjive11 on 1/2/2013 at 2:50 PM

    getmyjive11

  • InTresslWeTrust said...

    I don't know much about law, none of my degrees come to close to it. But can non-profit organization be considered a monopoly? I vaguely understand that the OK case was concerning TV rights, that has to do with the open market and the NCAA over reaching by impacting it

    Yes. Absolutely. Nearly all trade associations are non-profits and antitrust laws have regularly been applied to them. Also, as I said above, the federal courts have already ruled that the NCAA is a monopoly. It happened back when the NCAA was trying to control TV rights to all college football games. Oklahoma and several other schools sued the NCAA under the Sherman Act and won. Ever since, schools have had control over their own TV rights. So, the question is not whether the NCAA is a monopoly. The question is whether the NCAA abused their monopoly power by treating PSU unfairly and unreasonably.

    This post was edited by MrWoodson on 1/2/2013 at 2:53 PM

    MrWoodson ●

  • getmyjive11 said...

    After reading the lawsuit, I don't know how anyone thinks that the NCAA overstepped their boundaries and are in a heap of trouble.

    I think you worded that wrong. Either way though, it's a complaint. If you didn't read it and get the impression that the NCAA messed up, then the lawyers writing it are bad at their jobs. Just like the answer by the NCAA should give people the impression that they did nothing wrong, or their lawyers messed up.

    signature image

    #DicedPineapples

    shavisimo2 ●

  • shavisimo2 said...

    I think you worded that wrong. Either way though, it's a complaint. If you didn't read it and get the impression that the NCAA messed up, then the lawyers writing it are bad at their jobs. Just like the answer by the NCAA should give people the impression that they did nothing wrong, or their lawyers messed up.

    headslap

    I fixed it. The lawsuit makes a pretty good case that the NCAA overstepped their boundaries. And yeah, it's just a complaint, but I'm not sure what the NCAA's response would be that would make me think differently. Of course, I am biased. biggrin

    getmyjive11

  • Don't hold your breath this suit will takes years to resolve if it's going to be a true legal battle without a settlement and to do this before all the Investigations are over is huge mistake.The NCAA can still charge PSU Football with additional NCAA Violations, Clery Act, and Title IX violations. For Corbett to trash the Freeh Report that provided the PAOAG with Evidence that caused the Charges on Spanier , Shultz and Curley along with Second Mile still being under Investigation that has shown Money is missing, the NCAA can still impose the Death Penalty.

    PSU BOT should seriously consider holding a presser to disassociate itself from Corbett. I realize they made a statement, but not many watch the ticker on ESPN.

    The reaction of non PSU fans and alum is "So Corbett and PSU alum backing him financially do not feel the punishment fit the crime?"

    Keeping this at the forefront of the news is worse and worse for PSU IMO

    Leppycole ●

  • MrWoodson said...

    The bolded language is why the NCAA has been held by the U.S. Supreme Court to be a monopoly and why the "voluntary association" argument fails. It's irrelevant. And it's why we have antitrust laws. Once an entity establishes itself as a monopoly, the rules change. A monopoly, unlike a non-monopoly, cannot do whatever it wants. It must act in a commercially reasonable manner and it cannot take actions that would constitute an unfair restraint on trade. That is what the complaint alleges, that PSU's (and many others') rights to fair trade have been unfairly and unreasonably violated.

    It's irrelevant that the NCAA is a "voluntary association." It's a monopoly. There is nothing "voluntary" about joining the NCAA for a school that wants to participate in major college sports. The NCAA, via membership, controls the market for major college sports. As such, it is required to act reasonably when adopting rules and dealing with all of its members. It cannot adopt clearly unreasonable rules or procedures and it cannot treat some members differently than others. It's against the law.

    The NCAA is on very thin ice in how they dealt with PSU. Their best argument is that the PSU scandal was a unique situation. That might justify the unusually harsh sanctions, but it doesn't justify bypassing all the NCAA's normal processes and procedures. The NCAA never should have bypassed its normal enforcement processes and procedures. It was pure arrogance by Mark Emmert. It was unnecessary and has left the NCAA vulnerable.

    Thanks.
    You've basically summed up my thoughts in a much more encompassing, yet easy-to-read manner than I ever could.

    signature image

    Follow me on Twitter @rayraycotto

    RWC5113 ●

  • Leppycole said...

    The reaction of non PSU fans and alum is "So Corbett and PSU alum backing him financially do not feel the punishment fit the crime?"

    Keeping this at the forefront of the news is worse and worse for PSU IMO

    Victims would disagree, and as most people on the internet have told me over the last year the scandal and sanctions are about the victims.

    Victim No. 4 in Jerry Sandusky trial supports Tom Corbett's lawsuit against NCAA - Yahoo! Sports

    From Yahoo! Sports: One of Jerry Sandusky's victims was in the NCAA's sanctions on Penn State.

    sports.yahoo.com

    Itzsessil ●

  • Leppycole said...

    Don't hold your breath this suit will takes years to resolve if it's going to be a true legal battle without a settlement and to do this before all the Investigations are over is huge mistake.The NCAA can still charge PSU Football with additional NCAA Violations, Clery Act, and Title IX violations. For Corbett to trash the Freeh Report that provided the PAOAG with Evidence that caused the Charges on Spanier , Shultz and Curley along with Second Mile still being under Investigation that has shown Money is missing, the NCAA can still impose the Death Penalty.

    PSU BOT should seriously consider holding a presser to disassociate itself from Corbett. I realize they made a statement, but not many watch the ticker on ESPN.

    The reaction of non PSU fans and alum is "So Corbett and PSU alum backing him financially do not feel the punishment fit the crime?"

    Keeping this at the forefront of the news is worse and worse for PSU IMO

    Do you like just making things up? What NCAA violations? There weren't any, that's the point. The NCAA doesn't have anything in it's manual about the Cleary Act. And what Title IX violations are you suggesting there are? And what "missing money" are you referring to?

    Basically, WTF kind of fantasy post is this?

    getmyjive11

  • Leppycole said...

    Don't hold your breath this suit will takes years to resolve if it's going to be a true legal battle without a settlement and to do this before all the Investigations are over is huge mistake.The NCAA can still charge PSU Football with additional NCAA Violations, Clery Act, and Title IX violations. For Corbett to trash the Freeh Report that provided the PAOAG with Evidence that caused the Charges on Spanier , Shultz and Curley along with Second Mile still being under Investigation that has shown Money is missing, the NCAA can still impose the Death Penalty.

    PSU BOT should seriously consider holding a presser to disassociate itself from Corbett. I realize they made a statement, but not many watch the ticker on ESPN.

    The reaction of non PSU fans and alum is "So Corbett and PSU alum backing him financially do not feel the punishment fit the crime?"

    Keeping this at the forefront of the news is worse and worse for PSU IMO

    blank

    MrWoodson ●

  • getmyjive11 said...

    Do you like just making things up? What NCAA violations? There weren't any, that's the point. The NCAA doesn't have anything in it's manual about the Cleary Act. And what Title IX violations are you suggesting there are? And what "missing money" are you referring to?

    Basically, WTF kind of fantasy post is this?

    He's starting to lose it.

    MrWoodson ●

  • MrWoodson said...

    He's starting to lose it.

    He lives in State College, but hates PSU. If the sanctions were overturned it would kill him.

    getmyjive11

  • getmyjive11 said...

    He lives in State College, but hates PSU. If the sanctions were overturned it would kill him.

    Ahhh. It's all starting to make sense now.

    MrWoodson ●

  • Leppycole said...

    Don't hold your breath this suit will takes years to resolve if it's going to be a true legal battle without a settlement and to do this before all the Investigations are over is huge mistake.The NCAA can still charge PSU Football with additional NCAA Violations, Clery Act, and Title IX violations. For Corbett to trash the Freeh Report that provided the PAOAG with Evidence that caused the Charges on Spanier , Shultz and Curley along with Second Mile still being under Investigation that has shown Money is missing, the NCAA can still impose the Death Penalty.

    PSU BOT should seriously consider holding a presser to disassociate itself from Corbett. I realize they made a statement, but not many watch the ticker on ESPN.

    The reaction of non PSU fans and alum is "So Corbett and PSU alum backing him financially do not feel the punishment fit the crime?"

    Keeping this at the forefront of the news is worse and worse for PSU IMO

    lol

    signature image

    'Just to make it clear, I'm not transferring, I like it here too damn much to leave.' Jordan Kerner

    ejb5212

  • MrWoodson said...

    You should leave the legal analysis to the experts. The last time the NCAA was sued under the Sherman Act (i.e. U.S. antitrust law) it lost. The NCAA is clearly a monopoly and as a monopoly is limited in how it can exercise its monopoly power. The fact that it is a "voluntary" membership organization is irrelevant. The NCAA is the only game in town and PSU must belong to the NCAA to participate in major college football. The NCAA should be very concerned about this lawsuit.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_v._Board_of_Regents_of_Univ._of_Oklahoma

    My question is why have Miami and Oregon not gotten any penalties yet?

    UMWolverines

  • UMWolverines said...

    My question is why have Miami and Oregon not gotten any penalties yet?

    The same reason the NCAA threw the rule book out when he dealt with PSU ... because Mark Emmert thinks he can do whatever he wants as if he's some czar. Beyond that, I have no idea why some schools get hammered, some get off easy and some get a total pass. Or why some are dealt with swiftly and others are dragged out for years. It's largely arbitrary as best I can tell. Maybe Mark likes Miami and Oregon. Or maybe he's just been really busy. Or maybe he enjoys watching their fans and players twist in the wind. I know a lot of things. What goes on in Mark Emmert's head isn't one of them.

    MrWoodson ●

  • getmyjive11 said...

    Do you like just making things up? What NCAA violations? There weren't any, that's the point. The NCAA doesn't have anything in it's manual about the Cleary Act. And what Title IX violations are you suggesting there are? And what "missing money" are you referring to?

    Basically, WTF kind of fantasy post is this?

    Did PSU not violate the Cleary act? It is an NCAA provision.

    As far as the money - just wait - I know too much. You will hear all about it with Shultz, Spanier and Curley. IRS wants their 30%.

    Leppycole ●

  • ejb5212 said...

    lol

    That's the PSU mentality - lulz, lol, it was the same mentality before the Freeh report, but it's going to get worse - there will be no reduction in sanctions.

    I really want to push you guys out of the way of the train coming but you deserve what's on the way - it's really going to be something...

    Leppycole ●

  • Leppycole said...

    Did PSU not violate the Cleary act? It is an NCAA provision.

    As far as the money - just wait - I know too much. You will hear all about it with Shultz, Spanier and Curley. IRS wants their 30%.

    Ok Leppy, show me the provision in the NCAA rulebook that references the Cleary Act. I'm not going to look for something that isn't there, but if you find it, post it.

    The second part is just laughable. Okay, I will wait for the perjury case to show what the "missing money" was used for. How much was the missing amount again?

    Like I said, you are living in a fantasy world.

    getmyjive11

Football Recruiting
Basketball Recruiting
Features
Resources
Connect

247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports