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The Attack on Religious Freedom

  • gwgator05 said...

    Agree, but I would just add the distinction that homosexual individuals are being discriminated against because I think we get in a lot of problems when we identify everyone into specific groups. We are all Americans and should be free individuals without the Gov't giving any regard to to gender, sexual orientation, race, etc.

    Agreed

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    Hawkifish

  • When the catholic chruch starts paying taxes on the Billions in revenue it brings in, then they can join a political discussion on health care.

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    11Warriors

  • Hawkifish said...

    I DON'T think that churches should be forced to perform services for gay marriage. Again, that is against their religion and they should not be forced.

    I don't disagree within anything you said, but this seems to be the point I made that started this off. I don't disagree with this statement either.

    But someone is going to push it if gay marriage is legalized on a federal scale. Denying someone goods or services based on color, gender, or sexuality will trump religious freedom in the modern version of this country. That's the only point I was making. It's a hornets nest and like abortion, which I'm not against either, I just don't think it's something that should be decided one way or the other on the federal level.

    PTCcock195 ●

  • 11Warriors said...

    When the catholic chruch starts paying taxes on the Billions in revenue it brings in, then they can join a political discussion on health care.

    /end discussion

    dinkmctip ●

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    i think everyone should just mind their gawd dayum business...

    fffkin sensitive-assed religious creeps.

    man... this is why i hate religious people and do EVERYTHING i can to not be affiliated with none of them...

    thats exactly my, and the Church's point. The Gub-ment needs to mind their own damn business and not force Catholic organizations to cover healthcare items that are against our beliefs.

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    Murrdawg69

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    they are also not forcing them to condone it...

    the damn church needs to make a health insurance of their own... man... we shouldn't have contraception because the catholics think this and that...

    tell me, can i eat meat on friday?

    do i have to cross myself every time i see the evil eye?

    catholics are so damn sensitive, they shoulf fflfing leave the country... go live in the fffkin vatican

    It's not about restricting healthcare coverage for citizens. We're only talking about Catholic organizations. Catholic leaders aren't demanding that all healthcare not have contraception coverage. Not even remotely close to what you are suggesting.

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    Murrdawg69

  • PTCcock195 said...

    I don't disagree within anything you said, but this seems to be the point I made that started this off. I don't disagree with this statement either.

    But someone is going to push it if gay marriage is legalized on a federal scale. Denying someone goods or services based on color, gender, or sexuality will trump religious freedom in the modern version of this country. That's the only point I was making. It's a hornets nest and like abortion, which I'm not against either, I just don't think it's something that should be decided one way or the other on the federal level.

    Yeah I can't predict the future so that could very well happen.

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    Hawkifish

  • Murrdawg69 said...

    thats exactly my, and the Church's point. The Gub-ment needs to mind their own damn business and not force Catholic organizations to cover healthcare items that are against our beliefs.

    See my above post about SCOTUS ruling. Pretty clear cut they can.

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    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    See my above post about SCOTUS ruling. Pretty clear cut they can.

    Yeah i read it, and legally it makes sense. Still doesn't change the fact that it is against the beliefs of Catholics though.

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    Murrdawg69

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    So on the idea of contraception, I found it very odd that the court of public opinion has clearly forgotten a ruling,the opinion being authored by Justice Scalia( who is a conservative judge and Catholic) that essentially states:" once a religious institution enters the public square/society---i.e. schools,hospitals(and not actual churches)---it is open to the same rules and regulations as everyone else. I find that pretty straight-forward. On the idea of gay marriage, I think it was GOING BUCK in the stem cell thread posted a picture with a little Obama speech about how use must govern in relation to your beliefs and essentially that is:you represent everyone and cannot just force PERSONAL beliefs on someone else when creating laws(see the New York State Assemblyman from Buffalo on his vote for gay marriage). I don't see how a person who swears to uphold the Constitution(or similar values in state constitutions)can sit there and say,"my religious document says homosexual acts are bad...so I'm going to vote no despite the clear-cut legal standing".

    What case was this? I'd be interested in reading Scalia's majority opinion. Also were there any dissenting opinions on the case?

    A2Wolverines

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    So on the idea of contraception, I found it very odd that the court of public opinion has clearly forgotten a ruling,the opinion being authored by Justice Scalia( who is a conservative judge and Catholic) that essentially states:" once a religious institution enters the public square/society---i.e. schools,hospitals(and not actual churches)---it is open to the same rules and regulations as everyone else. I find that pretty straight-forward. On the idea of gay marriage, I think it was GOING BUCK in the stem cell thread posted a picture with a little Obama speech about how use must govern in relation to your beliefs and essentially that is:you represent everyone and cannot just force PERSONAL beliefs on someone else when creating laws(see the New York State Assemblyman from Buffalo on his vote for gay marriage). I don't see how a person who swears to uphold the Constitution(or similar values in state constitutions)can sit there and say,"my religious document says homosexual acts are bad...so I'm going to vote no despite the clear-cut legal standing".

    I agree with you on the point about gay marriage, but I don't think it translates to the contraception issue. I think the regulation is crazy even if you ignore the religion issue because the gov't is forcing private businesses to cover free contraception. The gov't has no right to force private companies to offer certain services, let alone force them to do it at no cost to their customers. The government is meddling into private contractual dealings when the gov't should protect the right to enter into contracts. Of course the through judicial activism, the SCOTUS has set the stage for this by essentially rendering the contract clause of the Constitution meaningless.

    gwgator05

  • Murrdawg69 said...

    Yeah i read it, and legally it makes sense. Still doesn't change the fact that it is against the beliefs of Catholics though.

    What about raping kids?
    Seriously, after all that, who gives afffk?

    creeps would've cared more if the priests wore condoms while raping boys, huh

    This post was edited by GoingLightBarny on 2/24/2012 at 9:58 AM

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  • A^2Wolverines said...

    What case was this? I'd be interested in reading Scalia's majority opinion. Also were there any dissenting opinions on the case?

    Employment Division v Smith (1990). "The Court held that the First Amendment's protection of the 'free exercise' religion does not allow a person to use a religious motivation as a reason not to obey such generally acceptable laws. 'To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself'.". If one was deferments enough,you could research and find the actual brief on some law school site or judicial review holding website,but this is the best I could come up with on my iPhone at school.

    Unavailable

    Either this website doesn't exist or is not currently available.

    en.m.wikipedia.org
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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    people always seem to get mad when you take away their right to oppress someone.

    it would be okay, though, for Christians to refuse people the right to marry if it were a purely Christian concept, but it is not...

    Sadly, this is so true.

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    !!!

    Grand Slam ●

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    What about raping kids? Seriously, after all that, who gives afffk?

    creeps would've cared more if the priests wore condoms while raping boys, huh

    i don't see a problem with raping kids. Thats what Barney does and he gets paid for it.

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    ECU grad, tOSU fan for life. Father since 1/12/13.

    Murrdawg69

  • Hey guys I'm not a moderator, but can we keep the personal attacks to a minimum. Thanks.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Employment Division v Smith (1990). "The Court held that the First Amendment's protection of the 'free exercise' religion does not allow a person to use a religious motivation as a reason not to obey such generally acceptable laws. 'To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself'.". If one was deferments enough,you could research and find the actual brief on some law school site or judicial review holding website,but this is the best I could come up with on my iPhone at school.

    Alright, I remember this case. About the guy eating peyote IIRC. I will look it up and read it again on cornell.law.

    A2Wolverines

  • A^2Wolverines said...

    Alright, I remember this case. About the guy eating peyote IIRC. I will look it up and read it again on cornell.law.

    There was also a case about a group of guys who claimed smoking weed and watching NFL football on Sunday was a ceremony of their religious beliefs, but the Court didn't buy that, lol. You have to applaud the effort.

    gwgator05

  • gwgator05 said...

    There was also a case about a group of guys who claimed smoking weed and watching NFL football on Sunday was a ceremony of their religious beliefs, but the Court didn't buy that, lol. You have to applaud the effort.

    lol...thats awesome

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    Murrdawg69

  • GoingLightBarney is it ok in the Muslim religion for someone to be gay? We know in other countries that you will be killed for being gay. But since you are an American muslim it is ok to support or tolerate being gay? Just wondering!!!

    ferbama

  • Ok so I have to ask. Does anybody else think that the reason the Church(used loosely) opposes gay marriage is because if it is legalized and everyone sees that it's not the end of the world then it would hurt the legitimacy of the Church(again used loosely) or make Christians uneasy since it would be contradictory to the Bible(which some people say is impossible since its infallible)?

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba ●

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Ok so I have to ask. Does anybody else think that the reason the Church(used loosely) opposes gay marriage is because if it is legalized and everyone sees that it's not the end of the world then it would hurt the legitimacy of the Church(again used loosely) or make Christians uneasy since it would be contradictory to the Bible(which some people say is impossible since its infallible)?

    I personally think it has everything to do with a moral belief system held by most religions that homosexuality is wrong and sinful. I don't think the Church would be so wrapped up in the world not ending if we allow gay marriage, because the Church would be able to add that to the list of examples of how the morality of society continues to decay bringing us closer to the end of days. It also allows the Church to play the "gov't is at war against Christianity" card to their respective congregations and further strengthen the support of those who are dedicated to the Church.

    gwgator05

  • gwgator05 said...

    I personally think it has everything to do with a moral belief system held by most religions that homosexuality is wrong and sinful. I don't think the Church would be so wrapped up in the world not ending if we allow gay marriage, because the Church would be able to add that to the list of examples of how the morality of society continues to decay bringing us closer to the end of days. It also allows the Church to play the "gov't is at war against Christianity" card to their respective congregations and further strengthen the support of those who are dedicated to the Church.

    i would think the end of the world would be pretty exciting for christians... what with everyone they know going to heaven and living in complete ecstasy and whatnot

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    GoingLightBarny

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    i would think the end of the world would be pretty exciting for christians... what with everyone they know going to heaven and living in complete ecstasy and whatnot

    I dunno about that. Christians obviously believe in a better life after this one, and I think that makes Christians comfortable with the idea of dying because the grass is greener on the other side. However, Christians are human as well and have friends and families on this side of the fence who they are probably not in a hurry to leave just to get to Heaven. Heaven will be there because it is eternal, but you only have one life to live on this earth and I think that most Christians would like to maximize the time that they have here in order to enjoy what our mortal life has to offer. I also don't think Christians should be happy about a perceived decay in morality and end of the world because true Christians would hope that as many people as possible could hear the message of God, be drawn to that message and try to lead as morally pure of a life as possible. I get that you are being somewhat sarcastic, but that's my opinion on the issue anyways.

    gwgator05

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    why don't we start closer to home, and ask Iowa?

    what about any other states that allow it?

    comparing 2 countries is mighty hard.

    this is why christians suck at life. they are complete douchebags, pussies, and all the rest of it...

    MIND YOUR GODDAMN BUSINESS, BITCH...

    i support all church shootings, and think it should be legal... i am gonna get a lobby group together... man, christians should stick to trying to be christlike.

    you all fail way too much at that to be worried about ANYTHING else

    Since you're obviously a kid who thinks and reacts with his emotions (as we all did when we were dumb kids) I'm going to be patient with you. It's not as easy as "mind your business." As you get older you'll realize how what we do affects everyone around us. It's also about establishing the most important institution a society has, that of marriage. If marriage and the family unit isn't strong in a culture the culture is doomed. For instance, you have the dumbest sig/avatar in the world of discussion boards, as is your right (since I don't like Barney it's actually not that bad). It doesn't hurt anyone, it just makes you look dumb. But, that's ok. Marriage/the family unit, on the other hand, affects all of our ideals.

    Secondly, since gay-marriage is far from the norm in our country it's not an apples to apples discussion on how it's affected our culture yet. It has adversely affected things in Scandinavia and Holland. Please think before you type.

    Thirdly, Christians still far out give all other groups, and by a wide margin, with our time and money, making your last assertion even dumber than you sig/avatar (whatever you call it). Even if we're wrong on gay-marriage (many Christians disagree with me) we still deserve the respect of everyone, even if we've made some mistakes (I'm anticipating someone to give an example or two of bad things done in the world of Cristendom which pale in comparison to all the good things). If you call bringing the ideals of freedom and human dignity to the world as "sucking at life" then we suck! If giving to the world tons of money and works of charity (again, by far more than any other group) makes us douchebags, the water and vinegar we are!

    I say this in all sincerity, please see how angry and ignorant you are. That is the epitome of a lost soul. I'll be praying for you.

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