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The Official Michigan, MSU, and 1 Random Guy from Arky Thread

  • Due51 said...

    Not at all? Uh....you named one position, and arguably the hardest position to master in the NFL.

    I named 2, QB and DT. I have no desire to do the research but wouldn't be surprised to see similar numbers across the board. Off the top of my head I can think of tons of WR's that don't pan out, id bet that number would be similar to 1/3.

    swizbeatz

  • Due51 said...

    You must have missed the gist of the last God-knows how many pages. Everyone is in agreement that there are no guarantees. But, you stack the odds in your favor by taking MORE highly rated guys.

    I was poking fun at all the trolls who mock MSU fans every time UM gets a commit, nothing more than that. There are quite a few posters on here who act like beating MSU is guaranteed.

    swizbeatz

  • mriderblue12 said...

    One would wonder if you read anything said, or you just typed words just to see them.

    I've read every post in this thread...fingergun

    swizbeatz

  • swizbeatz said...

    I was poking fun at all the trolls who mock MSU fans every time UM gets a commit, nothing more than that. There are quite a few posters on here who act like beating MSU is guaranteed.

    Beating MSU is guaranteed, I guarantee Michigan will beat MSU again. Crazy prediction I know.

    Recruiting does mean good things if you have proper coaching in place, means little if you don't. There is a reason tOSU dominated the B1G for the better part of a decade (aside from cheating).

    signature image signature image signature image

    mriderblue12

  • MrWoodson said...

    ... says the guy claiming Texas A&M is one of the top 10 programs of all time. Ironical statement is ironical.

    I like when we team up in a really weird way,

    signature image

    "As far as the downvotes. It's a gnat biting an lion" -- A member of tRCMB Justice League, taking the internet WAY WAY too seriously.

    Rocket_Play

  • I just can't wait for John L's first 'wow' moment. The guy is a joke. Wouldn't surprise me if he led them to 8-4, but that is way more a function of the talent they have than his ability whatsoever.

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • Jandy said...

    I just can't wait for John L's first 'wow' moment. The guy is a joke. Wouldn't surprise me if he led them to 8-4, but that is way more a function of the talent they have than his ability whatsoever.

    I could also see him saying "F-it, I have nothing to lose" and just throwing all sorts of wacky crap out there, like going for it on 4th and 8 from their own 45, faking punts, running WR/RB passes, etc.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • SpartanRocky said...

    I could also see him saying "F-it, I have nothing to lose" and just throwing all sorts of wacky crap out there, like going for it on 4th and 8 from their own 45, faking punts, running WR/RB passes, etc.

    You lost me when you associated this stupidity with him saying "F-it, I have nothing to lose". I seem to remember a lot of this crap when he had plenty to lose at MSU (and seemingly lost ALL of that 'plenty to lose')...

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • Due51 said...

    These are all good Catholic school kids. They don't partake. lol. Besides, nobody messes with Coach D.

    Sorry for the delay, but I would like to revisit this.

    I went to Catholic school, so I know you know how ludicrous this statement is lol

    Second, you are right that nobody messes with Coach D. He's the bomb-diggity. You, on the other hand, you might be mess-able...

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • Dantonio deserves nothing but respect. He is 4 and 1 vs M. No one can make any excuses for his success. And he's right, Michigan has done nothing. Hoke would agree. The only thing that matters is the score at the end of the game.

    That being said, it is so funny how easy it is to get under Dantonio's skin. :-)

    I can picture a great video montage of all the smirks, quotes, and stiffened lips.

    Uncle Newt

  • Rocket_Play said...

    I like when we team up in a really weird way,

    It feels naughty.

    This post was edited by MrWoodson on 4/23/2012 at 8:03 PM

    MrWoodson

  • Uncle Newt said...

    Dantonio deserves nothing but respect. He is 4 and 1 vs M. No one can make any excuses for his success. And he's right, Michigan has done nothing. Hoke would agree. The only thing that matters is the score at the end of the game.

    That being said, it is so funny how easy it is to get under Dantonio's skin. :-)

    I can picture a great video montage of all the smirks, quotes, and stiffened lips.

    You don't let people get under your skin easily and become a head coach at a major football program. People like that get weeded out far earlier in life. Does he make sniping comments? Sure thing, but that doesn't mean anyone has upset him. It's the nature of the beast.

    Harry Callahan

  • Uncle Newt said...

    That being said, it is so funny how easy it is to get under Dantonio's skin. :-)

    I can picture a great video montage of all the smirks, quotes, and stiffened lips.

    I feel like all those quotes and smirks are an effort to get under Michigan's skin, not a result of UM doing the same.

    It works, really, really well.

    All Ages Shows

  • Damn- that mgoblog went hard after Dave Brandon and the disaster the Alabama game is turning into. I did not think that board had that type of criticism within it.

    ErnieMcCracken

  • ErnieMcCracken said...

    Damn- that mgoblog went hard after Dave Brandon and the disaster the Alabama game is turning into. I did not think that board had that type of criticism within it.

    How is that game turning into a disaster other then the band not presently being invited? It's like saying MSU getting beat on the Air Craft Carrier was a disaster. The positive press and coverage outweighs the likely loss.

    signature image signature image signature image

    mriderblue12

  • mriderblue12 said...

    How is that game turning into a disaster other then the band not presently being invited? It's like saying MSU getting beat on the Air Craft Carrier was a disaster. The positive press and coverage outweighs the likely loss.

    You visit the site. Read the blog.

    ErnieMcCracken

  • ErnieMcCracken said...

    You visit the site. Read the blog.

    Not often. From a regular reader such as yourself, fill me in.

    signature image signature image signature image

    mriderblue12

  • mriderblue12 said...

    Not often. From a regular reader such as yourself, fill me in.

    Per Brian:

    A lot of people are pretty mad that Michigan's band is not going to Alabama. So many people are mad that there is a backlash against the mad people. The strength of the reaction is a combination of a number of things, amongst them the sudden reversal, how bush-league we look in comparison to Alabama, and the growing feeling that maybe this wasn't such a coup after all.

    Remember back when this thing was scheduled and we were assured that the take from this was going to be epic? Back then, I thought it was a good idea because it seemed impossible for Michigan to schedule a real nonconference opponent in any other way. This came paired with rending of garments about that fact, how college football is broken, etc., but the fact remained that 2012 would be the first season in a long time in which two nonconference games would be against truly interesting opponents. It was the only way.

    That assumption has steadily eroded as we find out more and more details and observe Big Ten scheduling trends in general. The conference announced a scheduling alliance with the Pac-12 that will force every league member to undertake regular home-and-home matchups against comparable opponents, no neutral site funny stuff (or at least not much). Michigan State jumped the gun on that agreement to schedule Oregon to a home-and-home. The year after that series finishes, the Spartans will take on Alabama in a home-and-home, in years when they also play Notre Dame. It can be done. Michigan just didn't do it.

    As for our Alabama game, Michigan's announced take, $4.7 million, is so low it seems impossible it's correct. If that's all Michigan's getting from the game that's at best equivalent to playing a body-bag game at Michigan Stadium. Assuming random one-off opponent cost a million bucks, Michigan would match 4.7 million in gate receipts alone by charging an average of 52 bucks a ticket.

    Michigan's 2011 budget shows $41.3 million for last year's eight-game home season in pure ticket costs minus guarantees, $8.7 million in PSDs, and $13 million in premium seating donations. Everything included, the average price paid for a seat at a Michigan game last year was about 72 dollars. Without all the donations, it was $49 last year; ticket prices increased by an average of $4.64 this year. $4.7 million is about 300k less than they'd get from a home game on ticket face value alone.

    Add in Michigan's expenses for getting down to Dallas and the ancillary benefits of having a home game (parking and concessions seem to be around 300k per game and there would be some level of increased donations required to get a season ticket) and either $4.7 million is undershooting it by a lot or Dave Brandon sold a home game to Dallas for no financial benefit whatsoever. Meanwhile, tickets for Dallas start at $125. At that price Michigan could easily afford a home and home with a high-quality opponent.

    Surely this can't be right. Dave Brandon didn't send Michigan down to Dallas for no reason whatsoever, right? My previous belief was that there was something we were missing in the numbers. But the sudden about-face about the band—and it was an about face given the contract and the conspicuous "Michigan band" sections on seating charts—suggests that the financial picture could be as grim as that: $400k is a significant chunk when you're already getting hosed backwards and forwards.

    I finally took a close look at the contract. We are getting hosed backwards and forwards. Check it:

    "CSLP will … pay $4,700,000 to Michigan. The team acknowledges that the Team Guarantee constitutes the sole financial compensation for the Team for playing the Game, and that no other compensation will be due or owed to the Team under this Agreement in connection with the Game. … The parties acknowledge that the Team may be entitled to compensation from its conference related to broadcast of the game. CSLP … will … retain all other revenues from the game. CSLP and ESPN acknowledge and agree that (a) all rights to telecast of distribute the programs of the Games have been assigned by Michigan to the Big Ten (b) Michigan has no ability to grant to ESPN any rights for telecast or distribution of Games played pursuant to this agreement and c) as between Michigan and ESPN, ESPN is responsible for obtaining such rights from the Big Ten. Notwithstanding the forgoing, if ESPN has the broadcast rights [they can get a title sponsor, etc.]"

    The TV point is important: my Big Theory for why this makes sense is that the teams would get the TV rights to themselves because the game is outside of their conference footprints. That's not the case. The money Michigan gets from television will be split twelve ways—every extra dollar they make for playing a big time opponent also goes to OSU.

    Michigan gets a couple hundred tickets, a couple suites, seating for the band, a field-level "party suite" and right to purchase 500 tickets near it, and 100 parking passes. Cheerleaders get in free. They get one "official retailer" in the stadium that CSLP takes a 22% of the gross of. So that's nothing. An addendum makes it clear that "hotel rooms, and other costs of transportation and lodging, shall be at the cost and expense of the individual institutions." Even the police escorts are at the respective teams' expense.

    The only thing that could possibly redeem this is if the Michigan got the revenue from the uber-expensive tickets, but the contract makes it clear they don't:

    CSLP shall also provide a minimum of 25,000 tickets for Michgian to re-sell to its fans as specified on the stadium map as an addendum to this document.

    Michigan got no more money than they would for an average regular season game and is charging their fans 60% more (at a minimum!) to attend it. There is no way to read the contract other than this: Dave Brandon got ripped off.

    So when Dave Ablauf tells AnnArbor.com that they're treating Dallas like "any other road game," it's because they have to. This supposed financial windfall simply does not exist. At best it's a break-even proposition even without the band. They will probably make more against Air Force the next week. Michigan gets a "bowl game experience" in an NFL stadium without its band at "neutral site" Michigan is twice as far away from as Alabama. Meanwhile, Mark Hollis gets Alabama at home. Michigan got owned by Mark "people u is" Hollis.

    You can consider the future created, yo.

    ErnieMcCracken

  • Harry Callahan said...

    You don't let people get under your skin easily and become a head coach at a major football program. People like that get weeded out far earlier in life. Does he make sniping comments? Sure thing, but that doesn't mean anyone has upset him. It's the nature of the beast.

    Well Hi Harry

    Uncle Newt

  • All Ages Shows said...

    I feel like all those quotes and smirks are an effort to get under Michigan's skin, not a result of UM doing the same.

    It works, really, really well.

    Ahh, Dantonio's just a chip off/on ...oops which way do I finish this one...

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by Uncle Newt on 4/24/2012 at 2:32 AM

    Uncle Newt

  • ErnieMcCracken said...

    Per Brian:

    A lot of people are pretty mad that Michigan's band is not going to Alabama. So many people are mad that there is a backlash against the mad people. The strength of the reaction is a combination of a number of things, amongst them the sudden reversal, how bush-league we look in comparison to Alabama, and the growing feeling that maybe this wasn't such a coup after all.

    Remember back when this thing was scheduled and we were assured that the take from this was going to be epic? Back then, I thought it was a good idea because it seemed impossible for Michigan to schedule a real nonconference opponent in any other way. This came paired with rending of garments about that fact, how college football is broken, etc., but the fact remained that 2012 would be the first season in a long time in which two nonconference games would be against truly interesting opponents. It was the only way.

    That assumption has steadily eroded as we find out more and more details and observe Big Ten scheduling trends in general. The conference announced a scheduling alliance with the Pac-12 that will force every league member to undertake regular home-and-home matchups against comparable opponents, no neutral site funny stuff (or at least not much). Michigan State jumped the gun on that agreement to schedule Oregon to a home-and-home. The year after that series finishes, the Spartans will take on Alabama in a home-and-home, in years when they also play Notre Dame. It can be done. Michigan just didn't do it.

    As for our Alabama game, Michigan's announced take, $4.7 million, is so low it seems impossible it's correct. If that's all Michigan's getting from the game that's at best equivalent to playing a body-bag game at Michigan Stadium. Assuming random one-off opponent cost a million bucks, Michigan would match 4.7 million in gate receipts alone by charging an average of 52 bucks a ticket.

    Michigan's 2011 budget shows $41.3 million for last year's eight-game home season in pure ticket costs minus guarantees, $8.7 million in PSDs, and $13 million in premium seating donations. Everything included, the average price paid for a seat at a Michigan game last year was about 72 dollars. Without all the donations, it was $49 last year; ticket prices increased by an average of $4.64 this year. $4.7 million is about 300k less than they'd get from a home game on ticket face value alone.

    Add in Michigan's expenses for getting down to Dallas and the ancillary benefits of having a home game (parking and concessions seem to be around 300k per game and there would be some level of increased donations required to get a season ticket) and either $4.7 million is undershooting it by a lot or Dave Brandon sold a home game to Dallas for no financial benefit whatsoever. Meanwhile, tickets for Dallas start at $125. At that price Michigan could easily afford a home and home with a high-quality opponent.

    Surely this can't be right. Dave Brandon didn't send Michigan down to Dallas for no reason whatsoever, right? My previous belief was that there was something we were missing in the numbers. But the sudden about-face about the band—and it was an about face given the contract and the conspicuous "Michigan band" sections on seating charts—suggests that the financial picture could be as grim as that: $400k is a significant chunk when you're already getting hosed backwards and forwards.

    I finally took a close look at the contract. We are getting hosed backwards and forwards. Check it:

    "CSLP will … pay $4,700,000 to Michigan. The team acknowledges that the Team Guarantee constitutes the sole financial compensation for the Team for playing the Game, and that no other compensation will be due or owed to the Team under this Agreement in connection with the Game. … The parties acknowledge that the Team may be entitled to compensation from its conference related to broadcast of the game. CSLP … will … retain all other revenues from the game. CSLP and ESPN acknowledge and agree that (a) all rights to telecast of distribute the programs of the Games have been assigned by Michigan to the Big Ten (b) Michigan has no ability to grant to ESPN any rights for telecast or distribution of Games played pursuant to this agreement and c) as between Michigan and ESPN, ESPN is responsible for obtaining such rights from the Big Ten. Notwithstanding the forgoing, if ESPN has the broadcast rights [they can get a title sponsor, etc.]"

    The TV point is important: my Big Theory for why this makes sense is that the teams would get the TV rights to themselves because the game is outside of their conference footprints. That's not the case. The money Michigan gets from television will be split twelve ways—every extra dollar they make for playing a big time opponent also goes to OSU.

    Michigan gets a couple hundred tickets, a couple suites, seating for the band, a field-level "party suite" and right to purchase 500 tickets near it, and 100 parking passes. Cheerleaders get in free. They get one "official retailer" in the stadium that CSLP takes a 22% of the gross of. So that's nothing. An addendum makes it clear that "hotel rooms, and other costs of transportation and lodging, shall be at the cost and expense of the individual institutions." Even the police escorts are at the respective teams' expense.

    The only thing that could possibly redeem this is if the Michigan got the revenue from the uber-expensive tickets, but the contract makes it clear they don't:

    CSLP shall also provide a minimum of 25,000 tickets for Michgian to re-sell to its fans as specified on the stadium map as an addendum to this document.

    Michigan got no more money than they would for an average regular season game and is charging their fans 60% more (at a minimum!) to attend it. There is no way to read the contract other than this: Dave Brandon got ripped off.

    So when Dave Ablauf tells AnnArbor.com that they're treating Dallas like "any other road game," it's because they have to. This supposed financial windfall simply does not exist. At best it's a break-even proposition even without the band. They will probably make more against Air Force the next week. Michigan gets a "bowl game experience" in an NFL stadium without its band at "neutral site" Michigan is twice as far away from as Alabama. Meanwhile, Mark Hollis gets Alabama at home. Michigan got owned by Mark "people u is" Hollis.

    You can consider the future created, yo.

    Brian's math is flawed. He forgot to account for the fact that by playing in a neutral site game in 2012, neither Michigan nor Alabama need to return a game to the other the following year. That's roughly an extra $5 million for each school that Brian forgot.

    MrWoodson

  • It's be interesting if MSU scheduled Bama as the last game of the season. Would love to see Bama playing in snow.

    Dicks Fake Eye20793

  • Dick's Fake Eye said...

    It's be interesting if MSU scheduled Bama as the last game of the season. Would love to see Bama playing in snow.

    confused

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • Last day of spring practice for MSU, then the spring game draft. Always fun to see that.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • So because Michigan might lose a bit of money this game is a disaster? Again, this game will put Michigan on a national stage for everyone to see. I don't think positive exposure is a negative, especially in a time when recruiting is so important.

    Michigan will likely lose, but I don't think a loss against Alabama will be all that negative. Everyone knows Alabama is the best program in the nation right now, and again getting the positive press will outweigh the negative impacts of a probable loss. And imagine if Michigan pulls off a massive upset and wins? That would be even bigger.

    It's like the MSU vs UNC hoops game, no one now remembers that loss really. But a bunch of kids who might never have seen MSU got a chance. Puts that program in everyones mind, and losing to the #1 team isn't ever that big of a deal, it's expected.

    signature image signature image signature image

    mriderblue12