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Due51 said...
Interesting sidenote after reading some of the comments on the Michigan game thread..
Mitch McGary is 20, born on June 6 1992. Lots of angst among the Sparty faithful that McGary is 21 (which he's not) and older than any other freshman.
You know who else was born in 1992 and is 20? Freshman Heisman winner Johnny Maziel. Huh. Weird. Where's the outrage?
Soooo being a true frosh and a RS frosh are now the same thing in Due's eyes..
This post was edited by copemoney0 on 1/6/2013 at 10:18 PM
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copemoney0 said...
So basically, per UM fans- MSU got good at basketball because Michigan began to suck (Ed Martin scandal) and MSU got good at football because UM began to suck (Rich Rod era).
Wow.
MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13
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MrWoodson said...
I know 10x more about basketball than you do. I might have to look up certain facts pertaining to events that happened before I was born, but I'm smarter, better educated and more rational. And I'm pretty certain I drink much less (call it a hunch).
For most of its history up until the late 1990s, Michigan arguably had the second best basketball program in the B10. At a minimum, it was neck and neck with OSU for #2. Two things changed in the 1990s ... Tom Izzo took over as HC of MSU and the Ed Martin Scandal began to bubble to the surface. Izzo is a very good coach. He's a lock for the HOF. But there are any number of coaches who have been just as good or better. When the Ed Martin Scandal hit, UM effectively mothballed its basketball program for the better part of a decade. It cut the budget, hired subpar coaches and spent virtually nothing on facilities. That helped Izzo by creating a huge vacuum in Michigan and the Midwest for another elite program. Izzo took advantage of that and should be congratulated for doing so.
With the hiring of John Beilein, UM signalled it was taking its basketball program out of mothballs. We've since opened the checkbook to hire top notch assistant coaches and spent well over $100 million on new facilities and upgrades to Crisler. Michigan basketball is back. Get used to it. That is not to say that MSU basketball is suddenly going to slide backward, but the competitive landscape has fundamentally changed and MSU needs to recognize that fact and adjust to it. FWIW Indiana basketball also went through a tumultuous period after Bobby Knight was fired and that down period at IU similarly benefitted programs like MSU and OSU. Like UM's program, IU's program now appears also to be substantially back on track.
If MSU wants to stick its head in the sand and pretend this is a one-year thing, that's fine with me. It won't change the reality on the ground and, eventually, that reality will sink in.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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SpartanRocky said...
All this "MSU was only good because UM was down" stuff would have some weight if MSU was just winning the Big 10 a bunch. MSU has consistently played and beaten other blue bloods on the road, at neutral sites, and most importantly, in the NCAA tournament. Duke, Kentucky and Kansas haven't been down the whole time, nor has Florida, 'Cuse, Louisville and UConn.
It's fine that UM is off to a great start; they're on track to be a 1-seed, if not the overall #1 seed. Stop pretending that this is automatically the downfall of MSU bball.
This post has been edited 5 times, most recently by MrWoodson on 1/6/2013 at 10:45 PM
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MrWoodson said...
That's not what I wrote. In fact, I wrote exactly the opposite. But MSU fans seem to be making two mistakes. One is to assume Beilein just got lucky with a recruiting class and next year everything will return to normal and UM will be struggling to make the NIT. The second is to think that Izzo elevated MSU's program to the level of a Duke or Kentucky or Carolina and in fact made it the premier program in the B10. Neither is anywhere close to being true.
Izzo has done a very good job at MSU, but so have Boeheim (sp?), Calhoun, Pitino, Donovan, etc, etc at their respective programs. How many NCs have Carolina and Duke and Kentucky won just during the Izzo era alone? And how many has Izzo won? Roy Williams has more. Calhoun has more. Donovan has more. And I hope I don't even need to mention Coach K.
Izzo is a HOF coach. He won a natty. He has elevated MSU's basketball program, but lets not oversell it. And the road ahead for Izzo and MSU will now be tougher with IU, OSU, and UM all competing at their historically high levels.
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Due51 said...
Interesting sidenote after reading some of the comments on the Michigan game thread..
Mitch McGary is 20, born on June 6 1992. Lots of angst among the Sparty faithful that McGary is 21 (which he's not) and older than any other freshman.
You know who else was born in 1992 and is 20? Freshman Heisman winner Johnny Maziel. Huh. Weird. Where's the outrage?
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DWags said...
How many years have they each been in college. Hey, look, I'm the first one who is happy Michigan takes these chances on kids who can't get into college right away after high school. We know it's all paper and sand at Michigan and not this academic institution they want it to be. The kid has been then a year, he needed a bit of help getting in. I'm all for that. Good for Michigan.
Johnny has been in college two years now.
MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13
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DWags said...
Put the bong down. Oh, and could you do that research for me. Since Izzo has been the head coach at MSU how many Conference titles, BTT titles, Final Fours and NC have each school, Indiana and Michigan State won. Hell, how many coaches has Indiana been through since Izzo has been at MSU. Hell, I'll give you the field. Since Izzo has been at MSU how many final fours has every school in the leage been to compared to Izzo? How many NC's have they won? Hell, lets go total Big ten titles. I'll compare izzo's numbers to the field.
Then ignore that fact and say we're not the premier program, because everyone in America will laugh at you. Like I said, I used to think you knew basketball, not so much now. Don't do this when you're high.
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MrWoodson said...
This is not about which program has won more "since Izzo has been at MSU". It's about entire program history. You want someone to pat you on the back and say you've been more successful over the past dozen years or so? Ok, fine, congrats. You win the decade. It doesn't erase IU's history. Just like it doesn't erase Carolina's or Kentucky's histories.
IU has more wins. IU has more B10 titles. IU has more NCAA appearances. IU has more NCAA wins. IU has five national titles to your two. IU is a blue blood basketball school located in a blue blood basketball state. You are not. Are you starting to get the difference yet?
.
Silly silly man. If Izzo was coaching in 1923, he'd have been kicking everyones ass then also. But he wasn't. So what can he or anyone do? Win. Win consistently. So, even if you have a down year once in a while you are still considered program of the decade. Then you go to work on the next one. After that your program is not only mentioned as a top program in the country but you get invited to step out with the "blue bloods" at events.
It's done for people EXACTLY LIKE YOU WHO IN TWO POSTS UP SAY YOU DON'T REMEMBER OR KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE 80's and beyond. ( that was you I believe )
back track out of that now.
Face it in your short memory of college basketball (your words not mine). Izzo and MSU have DOMINATED the league and tournament. You'll excuse me if I think you're only moving the target for your convenience. It's pathetic but true.
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MrWoodson said...
That's not what I wrote. In fact, I wrote exactly the opposite. But MSU fans seem to be making two mistakes. One is to assume Beilein just got lucky with a recruiting class and next year everything will return to normal and UM will be struggling to make the NIT. The second is to think that Izzo elevated MSU's program to the level of a Duke or Kentucky or Carolina and in fact made it the premier program in the B10. Neither is anywhere close to being true.
Izzo has done a very good job at MSU, but so have Boeheim (sp?), Calhoun, Pitino, Donovan, etc, etc at their respective programs. How many NCs have Carolina and Duke and Kentucky won just during the Izzo era alone? And how many has Izzo won? Roy Williams has more. Calhoun has more. Donovan has more. And I hope I don't even need to mention Coach K.
Izzo is a HOF coach. He won a natty. He has elevated MSU's basketball program, but lets not oversell it. And the road ahead for Izzo and MSU will now be tougher with IU, OSU, and UM all competing at their historically high levels.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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DWags said...
Redshirt kid qualifies for college. Prep school kid doesn't and hopes for mercy by a college whose standards aren't that high for athletes, and are willing to take a chance if he goes to a diploma mill and the teachers there know what needs to be done.
MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13
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DWags said...
So, what was the kid playing for Michigan reason for enrolling in prep school? He wasn't good enough? Or grades?
I honestly have no clue
According to Wikipedia (which, you know) his parents transferred him to Brewster Academy to repeat the 11th grade because his parents thought "the discipline would be good for him." It also states that he has ADHD.
EDIT: I'd be willing to bet Copemoney or some other hater will correct me if I'm wrong. Hell, they might even if I'm not.
This post was edited by Due51 on 1/7/2013 at 10:38 AM
MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13
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