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Peterklima said...
Personally, I have a hard time beleiving the "years of UM dominating MSU are over" and here is my rational:
1. Dantonio and MSU have thrived while UM (and to a lesser degree OSU) fell off. Whether they can beat UM in the future remains to be seen. Anyway, all else being equal, it would not be surprising to see Hoke win 2/3rds or 3/4ths of the games once he has his recruits and MSU's roster is a little depleted from battling OSU/UM on the recruiting trail. Not sure that is "domination" though.
2. We all saw RichRod get "dominated" by the entire B10 despite having the "name brand" of Michigan to pull in good recruits. MSU is not a coaching destination (as Saban proved) and it just can't afford to pay on the same level for new coaches. Dantonio is not a typical coach who is good enough to win, but not good enough to be considered for higher positions. They would have to hit a "home run" in a new coaching search to keep up with a (presumedly) resurgant Michigan.
3. Given the rest economic exodus, the state of Michigan might not be able to sully support (through recruits, patrons, etc.) two big-time football programs for very long. Which one do you think will feel the pinch, while the other will be kept afloat based on national perception?
So, there are at least some reason to believe Michigan can return to dominating MSU, if Hoke turns out to be a good coach over the years. Also, there is reason to believe that, if Hoke fails miserably and UM screws up the search for another coach, that MSU could "dominate" Michigan like they did under RichRod.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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Maize&Blue said...
So then recruiting matters. I don't really care if MSU falls hard. I care about Michigan being elite. I feel like we are on that track with our coaching staff and the way we are recruiting. I also believe that if MSU's recruiting doesn't pick up Michigan will begin to win a majority of the games again.
This post was edited by SpartanRocky on 2/20/2012 at 3:44 PM
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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xxmgobluexx said...
I thought we were going to have a civil discussion today until Rocky came out with the, "I'll respect Michigan recruiting when they can beat MSU". Reminds me of the other day when he took a dig at Michigan then told everybody that we don't 5 pages of it to follow.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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SpartanRocky said...
It's a sliding scale between recruiting and coaching. Top recruiting + Top Coaching = NCs/dominant programs. Just having one or the other isn't enough to be a national power. MSU has some pretty good coaching, but the recruiting is not at the same level. That's why you have a program with 11 W seasons, but not BCS bowls.
UM has always had top talent. Compare your roster this season to MSU's; I bet UM started at LEAST twice the 4/5-stars that MSU did. I think your coaching is good. I don't know if it's great.
Notre Dame is probably the biggest fly in your ointment. Kelly came in as a more decorated coach as Hoke, and EVERYONE predicted instant success. He's actually out-recruited UM, and ND has more talent than any Big 10 program except tOSU, and they're equals.
All of that has given him back to back 8-5 years. Charlie Weiss went to not 1, but 2 BCS bowls, brought in the #2 class nationally . . . and was gone 3 years later.
Just continue winning and you won't have me arguing these points.
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SpartanRocky said...
See my above example about ND.
What I said was that I'll care about how you guys are recruiting once you start beating MSU. State beat tOSU, UM and UGA last season, all of which had at least twice the 4-star players that MSU had on their rosters. Why would any Spartan start bowing down to UM based on recruiting rankings?
Hear the UM fans tell it, they're in for 10 straight Ws over MSU (Big M aside). I'll believe it when it starts happening, and not before. What's wrong with wanting your rival to prove it on the field first?
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SpartanRocky said...
Dude, come on. tOSU had ONE bad year; 3 straight Big 10 titles before that. In that time span, MSU has the most Big 10 wins of ANY program. That includes MSU's 6-7 2009 season.
It's not as though MSU has been going 7-5 while UM has be going 6-6.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Peterklima on 2/20/2012 at 3:54 PM
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Maize&Blue said...
Of course i agree about the Coaching plus recruiting equals the elite teams. The one thing i know right now is we have the recruiting. I am pretty confident in the coaching. This is why i believe Michigan fans continue to get excited and talk about recruiting. It means we have half the equation need to be elite and we feel confident we have the other part as well.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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SpartanRocky said...
I get it. What I'm saying is that don't expect MSU fans to acknowledge it until it shows up on the field.
Whether or not you guys care about State fans' opinions is up to you. For the purposes of this thread though, I just wouldn't expect a stream of MSU posters coming in to kiss Hoke's ring.
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SpartanRocky said...
I get it. What I'm saying is that don't expect MSU fans to acknowledge it until it shows up on the field.
Whether or not you guys care about State fans' opinions is up to you. For the purposes of this thread though, I just wouldn't expect a stream of MSU posters coming in to kiss Hoke's ring.
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SpartanRocky said...
It's a sliding scale between recruiting and coaching. Top recruiting + Top Coaching = NCs/dominant programs. Just having one or the other isn't enough to be a national power. MSU has some pretty good coaching, but the recruiting is not at the same level. That's why you have a program with 11 W seasons, but not BCS bowls.
UM has always had top talent. Compare your roster this season to MSU's; I bet UM started at LEAST twice the 4/5-stars that MSU did. I think your coaching is good. I don't know if it's great.
Notre Dame is probably the biggest fly in your ointment. Kelly came in as a more decorated coach as Hoke, and EVERYONE predicted instant success. He's actually out-recruited UM, and ND has more talent than any Big 10 program except tOSU, and they're equals.
All of that has given him back to back 8-5 years. Charlie Weiss went to not 1, but 2 BCS bowls, brought in the #2 class nationally . . . and was gone 3 years later.
Just continue winning and you won't have me arguing these points.
MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13
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SpartanRocky said...
See my above example about ND.
What I said was that I'll care about how you guys are recruiting once you start beating MSU. State beat tOSU, UM and UGA last season, all of which had at least twice the 4-star players that MSU had on their rosters. Why would any Spartan start bowing down to UM based on recruiting rankings?
Hear the UM fans tell it, they're in for 10 straight Ws over MSU (Big M aside). I'll believe it when it starts happening, and not before. What's wrong with wanting your rival to prove it on the field first?
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BrodieMSU said...
How can Michigan fans not fear MSU right now? We have won 4 straight games. What does it take? 1 more? 10 more?
Are they just going to ignore the fact that MSU beats them and claim that MSU is just irrelevant?
This post was edited by Due51 on 2/20/2012 at 3:58 PM
MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13
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The Official Michigan, MSU, and 1 Random Guy from Arky Thread