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SpartanRocky said...
Well, MSU took recruits from 11 different states last year. That's pretty "national" if you ask me.
You guys are off to a great start for 2012. I don't see anyone denying that. I also think it's fair to say that any projections beyond the 2012 recruiting class are a bit early; i.e., talking about beating MSU, re-establishing dominance, etc. Wait until Hoke has at least coached a game.
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SpartanRocky said...
Well, MSU took recruits from 11 different states last year. That's pretty "national" if you ask me.
You guys are off to a great start for 2012. I don't see anyone denying that. I also think it's fair to say that any projections beyond the 2012 recruiting class are a bit early; i.e., talking about beating MSU, re-establishing dominance, etc. Wait until Hoke has at least coached a game.
“I am going to treat you all the same . . . Like Dogs.” - Bo
TeamTeamTeam
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MichLash30 said...
Did not say anything about dominating Dantonio. I am commenting on the defense that most spartans are giving right now. The fact that MSU is recruiting "Nationally". So is Hoke he snatched up as many top recruits as he could get in the state and has since focused on out of state talent. Our staff has been to California, Georgia, Texas, Florida, and New York. Not to mention everywhere in between. These guys are doing work.
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SpartanRocky said...
Well, MSU took recruits from 11 different states last year. That's pretty "national" if you ask me.
You guys are off to a great start for 2012. I don't see anyone denying that. I also think it's fair to say that any projections beyond the 2012 recruiting class are a bit early; i.e., talking about beating MSU, re-establishing dominance, etc. Wait until Hoke has at least coached a game.
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spartanstate said...
I don't understand all this talk about Hoke and his recruiting dominance in the state of Michigan. Does it even count as dominance if he isn't going up against MD and his staff for most of the recruits. If our staff wasn't focused on out of state prospects then we would be neck to neck with Michigan right now. I think we cooled on guys like Ross and Ojemudia because we are able to get equal or better players from out of state.
Once Hoke recruits nationally like we are doing then I will concede that he is a good recruiter. Hoke hasn't gone head to head with our staff enough to say that he is a great recruiter.
"Does it even count as dominance if he isn't going up against MD and his staff for most of the recruits?"
You're kidding, right?
Godin - offered by both schools
Richardson - not offered by State but WAS offered by Bama, LSU, ND, OSU, Oklahoma, Penn St, and USC. Oh wait. I know. He doesn't fit into DANTONIO'S scheme. Right.
Ross - offered by both schools
Royce Jenkins-Stone - offered by both schools
Ojemudia and Funchess - offered by both schools AND come from the best high school pipeline Sparty has ever known.
Ben Braden - offered by both schools
That's just the IN STATE kids.
Pharaoh Brown and AJ Williams also have Sparty offers.Would you like a moment to reconsider your claim?
"Once Hoke recruits nationally like we are doing, the I will concede that he is a good recruiter"
Son, your opinion on what a good recruiter is has been deemed irrelevant thanks to your previous statement.This post was edited by Due51 on 5/25/2011 at 11:35 PM
MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13
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spewing oil
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spewing oil said...
One year, which set up perfect for UM, and Hoke has the state on lock down already?
I, for one, am not worried about the recruits Coach D brings in, he has proven he can find talent. When State keeps winning, with the talent he has already found, it will be easier to get the higher ranked prospects.
MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13
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Due51 said...
My only argument is.....what happens when Michigan starts winning again? Then what? You don't honestly think Michigan is going to repeat the three worst years in the history of it's 132 years of playing football, do you?
Hoke hasn't coached a single game yet kids are jumping on board unlike anything seen since.....who knows when. Ever? What happens if he and his coaches actually get his defense to play just ALRIGHT? And the offense, although a step back from last year's flash, becomes more well rounded and consistent? And he finds a kicker? What happens then? And what happens if, after Cousins leaves, Maxwell doesn't play quite as well because he loses his best receivers?
I'm just asking. Your statement is repeated a lot on the RCMB but nobody ever considers that Rich Rod isn't coaching at Michigan anymore. Every other coach at Michigan since you and I have been alive has absolutely owned MSU.
Do those scenarios ever cross your mind?
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Due51 said...
My only argument is.....what happens when Michigan starts winning again? Then what? You don't honestly think Michigan is going to repeat the three worst years in the history of it's 132 years of playing football, do you?
Hoke hasn't coached a single game yet kids are jumping on board unlike anything seen since.....who knows when. Ever? What happens if he and his coaches actually get his defense to play just ALRIGHT? And the offense, although a step back from last year's flash, becomes more well rounded and consistent? And he finds a kicker? What happens then? And what happens if, after Cousins leaves, Maxwell doesn't play quite as well because he loses his best receivers?
I'm just asking. Your statement is repeated a lot on the RCMB but nobody ever considers that Rich Rod isn't coaching at Michigan anymore. Every other coach at Michigan since you and I have been alive has absolutely owned MSU.
Do those scenarios ever cross your mind?
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SpartanRocky said...
I'd like to apologize to all the Blue Boarders who have seen our crazy back and forth arguments over the past few weeks. I thought it'd be a good idea to keep our sibling rivalry to one thread, so the rest of you can debate things like the hottest porn star, or what you're making for dinner, or what the best hypothetical recruiting class could. Or even how many times Barney was dropped on his head as a child.
Alright fans, here's what's gone down.
1) Hoke's off to a great start in recruiting for 2012
2) MSU has the better team this year and the game's at MSU
3) Hoke hasn't coached a single game yet for you guys
4) Switch in schemes are always interesting
5) I love pancakes.
6) 2012 recruits will not be on the field in 2011
7) I think MSU extends our winning streak over you guys to at least 5 games.
Let the flaming/bitching/fighting/discussion (hopefully!) begin!
www.yohoodent.com ... errybawdee awn ignorle
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Due51 said...
"Does it even count as dominance if he isn't going up against MD and his staff for most of the recruits?" You're kidding, right? Godin - offered by both schools Richardson - not offered by State but WAS offered by Bama, LSU, ND, OSU, Oklahoma, Penn St, and USC. Oh wait. I know. He doesn't fit into DANTONIO'S scheme. Right. Ross - offered by both schools Royce Jenkins-Stone - offered by both schools Ojemudia and Funchess - offered by both schools AND come from the best high school pipeline Sparty has ever known. Ben Braden - offered by both schools That's just the IN STATE kids. Pharaoh Brown and AJ Williams also have Sparty offers.
Would you like a moment to reconsider your claim?
"Once Hoke recruits nationally like we are doing, the I will concede that he is a good recruiter" Son, your opinion on what a good recruiter is has been deemed irrelevant thanks to your previous statement.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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SpartanRocky said...
FWIW, I'd assume Renaissance is a better pipeline than FHH. 2 4-stars and a 5-star to MSU in the past 3 years.
The rest, I'm not going to come close to arguing with you about. You're beating us fair and square for multiple recruits.
MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13
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xxmgobluexx said...
Enough with the going national excuse. Coach D stated when he took over that winning the state of Michigan was the key and foundation to your program. You can't do that now so you are looking outside of Michigan to build since Hoke seems to have the state on lock down.
Somebody else already mentioned Memphis having 12 recruits from different states, are they going "national"? Vandy had recruits from 13 states, are they now going "national"? Marshall had recruits from 12 states, are they going "national"? Buffalo had recrutis from 12 states and provinces, are they going "national"? ... ... ...
Try and find another way to spin it, going "national" isn't the answer.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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SpartanRocky said...
Look. MSU hasn't gotten loads for 4-star talent consistently since the 60s. Right now we're building the program on mid to high 3-star guys with enough elite athletes to put us over the top. While we may not find those elite athletes in abundance outside of MI or OH, we can find plenty of those mid to high level 3-star guys from all over the country.
Right now the count for highly recruited athletes is approximately 1 5-star (Gholston, consensus 5-star) and between 16-20 4-stars depending on whether you use Scout or Rivals ( For instance, Donovan Clark from the 2011 class is a 4-star on Scout, but a 3-star on Rivals, Brandon Clemons is a 4-star on Rivals but a 3-star on Scout, etc.).
I feel that MSU can win a lot of games with that amount of high-end talent. In order to maintain that, MSU needs to recruit 4-6 4-star/5-star guys each class. The bigger key, IMHO, is keeping the talent "floor" to just a few 2-star diamonds in the rough each year. In 2007 and 2008 MSU took 7+ 2-stars; that number has gone down each of the past 3 classes to the point that the 2011 class had just 2 2-star athletes in it.
Look, in order to compete with the true "big boys" year in and year out, you generally need very very strong recruiting. That is MSU's ultimate goal, but it's not going to happen overnight; as someone pointed out, MSU does not have a strong national presence. That's something that takes years to build, though MSU's championship last year definitely raised our profile.
In order to raise your profile, you need to win 8-10 games consistently and be viewed as a winning program. I believe that can (and will) be achieved with MSU's current level of recruiting. Right now we have 4 recruits, none of which should be lower than 3-stars, and one (McGowan) is getting serious 4-star consideration. That's in line with MSU's current talent level: 25% high-end, 75% "solid".
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SpartanRocky said...
I feel that MSU can win a lot of games with that amount of high-end talent. In order to maintain that, MSU needs to recruit 4-6 4-star/5-star guys each class. The bigger key, IMHO, is keeping the talent "floor" to just a few 2-star diamonds in the rough each year. In 2007 and 2008 MSU took 7+ 2-stars; that number has gone down each of the past 3 classes to the point that the 2011 class had just 2 2-star athletes in it.
in order to compete with the true "big boys" year in and year out, you generally need very very strong recruiting.
In order to raise your profile, you need to win 8-10 games consistently and be viewed as a winning program. I believe that can (and will) be achieved with MSU's current level of recruiting. Right now we have 4 recruits, none of which should be lower than 3-stars, and one (McGowan) is getting serious 4-star consideration. That's in line with MSU's current talent level: 25% high-end, 75% "solid".
MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13
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Due51 said...
My only gripe is that you and the majority on the RCMB neglect to recognize the same truths outlined in your manifestos for Hoke and Co. You could insert "UofM" in your statement above and the point would be equally valid. Yet, you guys would rather chide Michigan about "May recruiting championships" and "September Heismans."
If State's future success is dependent on solid recruiting, then the same can be said for Michigan. Thus the giddy nature of Michigan fans who have witnessed Hoke waltz into town and rake in a #21 ranked class for 2011 after just 3 weeks on the job and (probably) Top 8 class for 2012.
In short, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
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xxmgobluexx ●
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Due51 said...
My only gripe is that you and the majority on the RCMB neglect to recognize the same truths outlined in your manifestos for Hoke and Co. You could insert "UofM" in your statement above and the point would be equally valid. Yet, you guys would rather chide Michigan about "May recruiting championships" and "September Heismans."
If State's future success is dependent on solid recruiting, then the same can be said for Michigan. Thus the giddy nature of Michigan fans who have witnessed Hoke waltz into town and rake in a #21 ranked class for 2011 after just 3 weeks on the job and (probably) Top 8 class for 2012.
In short, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
This post was edited by SpartanRocky on 5/26/2011 at 3:55 PM
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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SpartanRocky said...
To me, it is a different situation for MSU and UM. Even when UM was recruiting at its best, Carr was averaging about 8.5 Ws/season. I don't know what it is, but it seems that MSU has been able to do more with less than UM. Whereas MSU seems to be o.k. with its current recruiting level, I feel that UM could not sustain the same success if it recruited at the same level as MSU. We'll see it play out over the next few years, but ND and UM seem to be 2 programs where the recruiting hype hasn't measured up on the field.
I suppose that's why I'm more confident in MSU; we've turned multiple 2-star/3-star guys into All-league performers. I can't recall the last time a 2-star has blossomed at UM (please correct me if there are several such prospects). I think UM, because it's had great recruiting success, has problems identifying those developmental prospects, so that if UM isn't pulling a ton of 4-star talent, they're more feeling around in the dark for prospects the next level down on the recruiting rung.
Make no mistake about it, MSU may not be pulling a ton of 4-stars, but we get plenty of high 3-star guys (9 in the 2011 class). It's really not like it's 4-star or bust for us.
Go Blue and Go Titans!
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The Official Michigan, MSU, and 1 Random Guy from Arky Thread