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The Official Michigan, MSU, and 1 Random Guy from Arky Thread

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    lmao, I'm blind, maybe I need a pair of your sparty green colored glasses. MSU scored enough points to win, and that is what is needed, but 2.3 ypc isn't saying much.

    I think you're just envious because we finally did what you haven't been able to do. Way to come in here and try to cheapen our accomplishment.

    signature image

    steveschneider

  • mriderblue12 said...

    It counts, but it is irrelevant to now. You can't have it both ways steveschneider. You try and play the rational MSU fan bit, then you spit BS at all other teams. Michigan looks improved, MSU's defense looks very good. Why is this so hard for both fan bases to admit.

    I agree with your last sentence. I'm just here to talk football and spread positive karma. I like you guys, and I hope you beat Northwestern.

    signature image

    steveschneider

  • steveschneider said...

    I think you're just envious because we finally did what you haven't been able to do. Way to come in here and try to cheapen our accomplishment.

    Sorry to hear that you consider losing to ND an accomplishment, but I prefer to win.

    xxmgobluexx

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    Improved offensive calling for MSU? Against the 2 teams with talent level that is equal or better than MSU and MSU has amassed a total of 20 points. Not the offensive juggernaut we were told they would be.

    1) 23 points, not 20 wink_msu

    2) We played both those teams, which feature top 25 defenses, on the road, with an admittedly young O-line.

    Should be a fun game between our teams. I wouldn't look past Northwestern though.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • steveschneider said...

    Why no respect for Toledo? Didn't they beat UofM in the Big House or does that not count because Rich Rod was your coach?

    ??? Of course Toledo is not a good team. You know that.

    How do I explain UM losing to Toledo 3 years ago, under a different coach? I think we "sucked." How do you explain not being able to score HALF as many points against OSU than Toledo THIS YEAR?

    (I am not into the transitive property of A>B and B>C, so A>C. I think that is wrong. but, we should look at how our teams compare based on whether they do better or worse than an average team against the same competition. There is limited data, but MSU's offense underperformed against OSU, based on how OSU has done in other games.

    Michigan fans may be concerned about Denard's passing, which has been "hit and miss" - pun intended, but MSU has to be sorry about their lack of a run game and multiple bad decisions by Cousins. Right now, UM has the better offense by a good amount. As for defense, I think that MSU and UM have given up the same number of points on average this year and both held ND to the same score (the only really good offense both faced). I would say they are a wash, but even if the Spartans have a SLIGHTLY better defense (as I am sure you will argue) that does not make up for the big difference in the two offenses. So, UM seems to have an edge...but add in homefield advantage for MSU and....well, it should be a really close/good game.)

    If MSU had an above average offense, I would think that MSU would win by about 7 points....but they decidedly do not.

    Peterklima

  • SpartanRocky said...

    1) 23 points, not 20

    2) We played both those teams, which feature top 25 defenses, on the road, with an admittedly young O-line.

    Should be a fun game between our teams. I wouldn't look past Northwestern though.

    My bad.

    No way am I looking past NW with Persa back, and I am sure the coaches aren't either. If NW was ever going to have home field advantage, it will be a night game like this.

    xxmgobluexx

  • SpartanRocky said...

    1) 23 points, not 20 wink_msu

    2) We played both those teams, which feature top 25 defenses, on the road, with an admittedly young O-line.

    Should be a fun game between our teams. I wouldn't look past Northwestern though.

    Michigan put up 35 on a Top 25 defense? Wow.

    And you think OSU was a top 25 defense heading into the MSU game? They gave up 22 to Toledo, 24 to a bad Miami team and 17 to a bad Colorado team? Just because they shut out the Zips, they have a good defense?

    And, you guys only put up 10 on that OSU defense?

    I can buy arguments about MSU's defense being good this year. I can understand the importance of homefield and Dantonio's obsession with beating UM being factors in MSU's favor..... I can buy almost any pro-MSU argument EXCEPT that MSU has a good offense...or even average offense for the B10.

    5 games in and we know that is not the case.

    Peterklima

  • Peterklima said...

    Michigan put up 35 on a Top 25 defense? Wow.

    And you think OSU was a top 25 defense heading into the MSU game? They gave up 22 to Toledo, 24 to a bad Miami team and 17 to a bad Colorado team? Just because they shut out the Zips, they have a good defense?

    And, you guys only put up 10 on that OSU defense?

    I can buy arguments about MSU's defense being good this year. I can understand the importance of homefield and Dantonio's obsession with beating UM being factors in MSU's favor..... I can buy almost any pro-MSU argument EXCEPT that MSU has a good offense...or even average offense for the B10.

    5 games in and we know that is not the case.

    OSU does have a good defense. Amazing? No, but certainly good. Still no reason that we shouldn't have scored more points. Our offense has looked a bit shaky which is what sort of worries me. Cousins doesn't always seem to be in the game as well.

    bb011

  • Peterklima said...

    ??? Of course Toledo is not a good team. You know that.

    How do I explain UM losing to Toledo 3 years ago, under a different coach? I think we "sucked." How do you explain not being able to score HALF as many points against OSU than Toledo THIS YEAR?

    (I am not into the transitive property of A>B and B>C, so A>C. I think that is wrong. but, we should look at how our teams compare based on whether they do better or worse than an average team against the same competition. There is limited data, but MSU's offense underperformed against OSU, based on how OSU has done in other games.

    Michigan fans may be concerned about Denard's passing, which has been "hit and miss" - pun intended, but MSU has to be sorry about their lack of a run game and multiple bad decisions by Cousins. Right now, UM has the better offense by a good amount. As for defense, I think that MSU and UM have given up the same number of points on average this year and both held ND to the same score (the only really good offense both faced). I would say they are a wash, but even if the Spartans have a SLIGHTLY better defense (as I am sure you will argue) that does not make up for the big difference in the two offenses. So, UM seems to have an edge...but add in homefield advantage for MSU and....well, it should be a really close/good game.)

    If MSU had an above average offense, I would think that MSU would win by about 7 points....but they decidedly do not.

    If you're not into the transitive property argument then why even bring it up?

    Cousins was missing wide open receivers, and he had a couple of turnovers. I think with Fowler back we improve. I also saw our OL open up some pretty good holes and run through the line for a change.

    It's going to be a great game, between our two great schools. I got my tickets and I can't wait to see it. I called a win for you guys over ND and I'm calling a win over Northwestern.

    signature image

    steveschneider

  • I expect a close game. MSU probably pulls it out in the 4th q. If MSU gets out in front early, Denard will have to throw. I like our chances at home.

    Harry Callahan

  • steveschneider said...

    Denard just doesn't have very good mechanics when throwing the ball. Removing abscess isn't going to make him Joe Montana or Dan Marino.

    If you know anything about abscess, you know how uncomfortable it is and how it would easily make his mechanics shaky at best. Having to deal with that in your throwing elbow could cause your throwing motion to be out of sync. shrug

    signature image signature image signature image

    Ducksworth

  • Harry Callahan said...

    I expect a close game. MSU probably pulls it out in the 4th q. If MSU gets out in front early, Denard will have to throw. I like our chances at home.

    I agree with a lot of this. It'll be close. It'll come down to Denard throwing the ball. I have faith in our rushing game, between Denard and Fitz, but if he can't throw the ball effectively, we'll lose. If he can, then I like our chances.

    MSU's home field advantage will be hard to overcome. As long as Cousins doesn't make the same mistakes he made against OSU and you keep Denard in check, you should win. But if Cousins and the OL are still shaky and Denard gets in a throwing rhythm, you could be in trouble.

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    Ducksworth

  • Corruption said...

    How many of these games does UM win?

    ND @NW @MSU @IA @IL NE OSU

    Got the first. Congrats.

    Still looks like 6-6.

    Go Wildcats!

    Corruption

  • Harry Callahan said...

    I expect a close game. MSU probably pulls it out in the 4th q. If MSU gets out in front early, Denard will have to throw. I like our chances at home.

    Yeah because we all know Michigan and Denard can't get big plays on the ground.

    signature image signature image

    severs28

  • Peterklima said...

    Michigan put up 35 on a Top 25 defense? Wow.

    And you think OSU was a top 25 defense heading into the MSU game? They gave up 22 to Toledo, 24 to a bad Miami team and 17 to a bad Colorado team? Just because they shut out the Zips, they have a good defense?

    And, you guys only put up 10 on that OSU defense?

    I can buy arguments about MSU's defense being good this year. I can understand the importance of homefield and Dantonio's obsession with beating UM being factors in MSU's favor..... I can buy almost any pro-MSU argument EXCEPT that MSU has a good offense...or even average offense for the B10.

    5 games in and we know that is not the case.

    You can cut the schtick, we're not fooled by it anymore.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • severs28 said...

    Yeah because we all know Michigan and Denard can't get big plays on the ground.

    He can but MSU will be trying to run and limit possessions. I think the game plan will be similar to the last few years. Run,control clock, and limit possessions.

    Harry Callahan

  • Harry Callahan said...

    He can but MSU will be trying to run and limit possessions. I think the game plan will be similar to the last few years. Run,control clock, and limit possessions.

    I was impressed by the step our OL took against tOSU. The bye comes at a great time; they don't need to improve by leaps and bounds, but just get a little better this week, and a little better still before the UM game.

    I'm reserving judgment on the UM D till they play Northwestern.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • steveschneider said...

    If you're not into the transitive property argument then why even bring it up?

    Cousins was missing wide open receivers, and he had a couple of turnovers. I think with Fowler back we improve. I also saw our OL open up some pretty good holes and run through the line for a change.

    It's going to be a great game, between our two great schools. I got my tickets and I can't wait to see it. I called a win for you guys over ND and I'm calling a win over Northwestern.

    The transitive property is that you are actually better than another team because of the chain of victories. I am saying that is not the case, so we should look at how the teams perform against the average (FBS) team who faces the same opponent.

    Both Defenses are above average, but I think MSU's Offense is below average, while Michigan's O is above average. The other factors, though, will make this a close game, no doubt.

    Peterklima

  • SpartanRocky said...

    I was impressed by the step our OL took against tOSU. The bye comes at a great time; they don't need to improve by leaps and bounds, but just get a little better this week, and a little better still before the UM game.

    I'm reserving judgment on the UM D till they play Northwestern.

    I agree with the step up our OL took as well. There were some impressive holes opened up for our RBs to run through. By far the best game they've played all year IMO.

    signature image

    steveschneider

  • SpartanRocky said...

    I was impressed by the step our OL took against tOSU. The bye comes at a great time; they don't need to improve by leaps and bounds, but just get a little better this week, and a little better still before the UM game.

    I'm reserving judgment on the UM D till they play Northwestern.

    First, seriously, what was the OL improvement against OSU? Improved from what...to what?

    Second, if you are reserving judgment on UM's defense (presumably because they haven't played "anyone" you consider good), then shouldn't you say you are also "reserving judgment on MSU's defense"? I think it is fine to reserve judgment on both Defenses, but not on just one. MSU has not faced any good offenses aside from the common opponent they had with UM (ND). OSU has a horrible, horrible offense, regardless of their performance against State.

    So, no way to judge one defense without judging another.

    Peterklima

  • steveschneider said...

    I agree with the step up our OL took as well. There were some impressive holes opened up for our RBs to run through. By far the best game they've played all year IMO.

    What holes? You mean the 3 yards a carry MSU got and 70 total yards? That is impressive?

    Peterklima

  • Calm down. It's just an observation. I wholeheartedly agree the O line made steps against tOSU. Of course this statement is relevant to he play against ND. The O line against ND was atrocious, by any definition of the word. KC was getting drilled constantly, false starts, holding penalties, out LT getting abused almost every play, no running lanes, etc.

    After that game I had a dim outlook for MSU, and I didn't think we had a shot against tOSU. instead, the line didn't have 1 false start (I think), had zero sacks against, and managed to create some lanes for Bell and Baker.

    I would call this improvement, but relative to 2 weeks ago. Now could the O line lay an egg again? Of course, but if they play like they did on Saturday I'm confident MSU can at least finish 8-4, possibly 9-3.

    MIST

  • MIST said...

    Calm down. It's just an observation. I wholeheartedly agree the O line made steps against tOSU. Of course this statement is relevant to he play against ND. The O line against ND was atrocious, by any definition of the word. KC was getting drilled constantly, false starts, holding penalties, out LT getting abused almost every play, no running lanes, etc.

    After that game I had a dim outlook for MSU, and I didn't think we had a shot against tOSU. instead, the line didn't have 1 false start (I think), had zero sacks against, and managed to create some lanes for Bell and Baker.

    I would call this improvement, but relative to 2 weeks ago. Now could the O line lay an egg again? Of course, but if they play like they did on Saturday I'm confident MSU can at least finish 8-4, possibly 9-3.

    I guess we have to work on run blocking now. If they made steps against osu it was in pass protection. If we want a 9-3 season we are going to have to run the ball better against teams who can also move the ball better.

    spartanstate

  • steveschneider said...

    I agree with the step up our OL took as well. There were some impressive holes opened up for our RBs to run through. By far the best game they've played all year IMO.

    Definitely. That was a strong front 7, and we're not likely to face another that good this year unless Nebraska gets its act together. OL can really only get better . . . barring an injury (again).

    Otherwise, get healthy (Foreman) and continue to gel. UM's DL is decent, so it'll be a nice test for the boys up front.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • Peterklima said...

    The transitive property is that you are actually better than another team because of the chain of victories. I am saying that is not the case, so we should look at how the teams perform against the average (FBS) team who faces the same opponent.

    Both Defenses are above average, but I think MSU's Offense is below average, while Michigan's O is above average. The other factors, though, will make this a close game, no doubt.

    Dennard Robinson is above average.

    The rest of your offense? Not so much.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

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