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The Official Michigan, MSU, and 1 Random Guy from Arky Thread

  • SpartanRocky said...

    I read Ducksworth's breakdown was a bit rosier than what I read in the paper today. It's ok to ask about differing opinions, right?

    It's ok to point you in a direction that already answers you question, right?

    xxmgobluexx

  • MrWoodson said...

    Let me help you. Every offensives player who is focused on stopping the NT is unavailable to focus on stopping the DE. An OG cannot turn his attention inside to Worthy and also outside to Gholston at the sane time. Likewise, a TE or RB cannot block both a DT who has broken through the OL and a DE coming from the outside. And as far as ARW is concerned, I have no idea who that is. Presumably it's the player who will be stepping in for Worthy. Are you suggesting he will be as good as Worthy, because that's one heck of a limb to climb out on? Worthy was a returning starter. He also was the best NT in the B10 mast year and probably the best NT you've had in 20 years. He might even end up going in the first round of the NFL draft. If MSU's defensive game plan for 2012 depends on ARW being as good as Worthy, good luck.

    Uhh, most C's aren't pulling to help out on a DE. Even the OG's abilty to help is contingent on Gholston using an inside move; something that most DEs are coached not to do unless it's against a true statue QB because you give up contain.

    Also, Worthy was not a NT; he played 3-tech. White and Pickelman were the NTs last year. Pickelman got hurt in the CCG, so White started the bowl game (7 tackles, 3 TFL). White's position in HS and JUCO was the 3-tech and he's moving over there this year.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • SpartanRocky said...

    I read Ducksworth's breakdown was a bit rosier than what I read in the paper today. It's ok to ask about differing opinions, right?

    Agreed. That's just my opinion. Based on their previous production and spring practices, I'm optimistic about the DL. I know many people who are not. I think the middle could be iffy, but I'm optimistic. I could easily be very wrong. It has happened before.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Ducksworth

  • Maize&Blue said...

    I think this is exactly how it should be done. Honesty is what i want from the coaches. If you have 1 spot left at a position then tell the kid that. If you have 3 other guys you would accept a commitment from then tell them that.

    I agree.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • MrWoodson said...

    I didn't ask you to say anything. Handy has spent the past three pages suggesting that Denard is not a QB and I have been disagreeing with him. If you have something to add to tiger discussion, feel free. But I didn't solicit your input.

    You hit on a key of what Jandy is doing. He isn't specifically saying Denard isn't a QB, but he sure seems to be implying it.

    Basically, he's not saying, he's just saying.

    xxmgobluexx

  • Maize&Blue said...

    I think this is exactly how it should be done. Honesty is what i want from the coaches. If you have 1 spot left at a position then tell the kid that. If you have 3 other guys you would accept a commitment from then tell them that.

    I have edited Rocky's post for what I think Dantonio did

    Dantonio: Hey Player X, you're our top target at LB

    Player X: really? That's great, but I'm not sure if I want to commit yet

    Dantonio: Well Player X, we really want you, but we only have 1 spot left at LB, and we also think highly of Player Y. Player Y is coming in next week and we would accept his commitment. We do want you more though. . .

    Player X: Hmm . . .well, when you put it that way, I'm Green.

    Player X's Mom: Now, Player X, don't rush into anything.

    Dantonio: Tell ya what, Player X, I can promise you I won't accept another LB committing in place of you until Monday, how's that?

    Player X: Okay, I'll let you know soon.

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • Maize&Blue said...

    Then i guess i am missing whatever point you are trying to make. I would take the Big Ten offensive player of the year and Big Ten MVP award over First team All Big Ten QB any day.

    Not only that, but it seems a stretch to say that B10 Offensive POY and B10 MVP are not QB awards. Without going and adding them up, I would guess that those awards have been won by QBs more than nearly any other position.

    MrWoodson

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    You hit on a key of what Jandy is doing. He isn't specifically saying Denard isn't a QB, but he sure seems to be implying it.

    Basically, he's not saying, he's just saying.

    Holy Hell. I get no credit.

    If I were running a spread offense, I would want Denard as my QB very much.

    Better?

    Edit: I REALLY WAS JUST ASKING A FREAKING QUESTION. NEVERMIND.

    This post was edited by Jandy on 4/17/2012 at 1:50 PM

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • Jandy said...

    Holy Hell. I get no credit.

    If I were running a spread offense, I would want Denard as my QB very much.

    Better?

    I <3 you now!

    xoxoxo

    xxmgobluexx

  • Ducksworth said...

    Agreed. That's just my opinion. Based on their previous production and spring practices, I'm optimistic about the DL. I know many people who are not. I think the middle could be iffy, but I'm optimistic. I could easily be very wrong. It has happened before.

    I am pretty optimistic about the DL as well. I really like our DEs. I do think the DT spot is iffy right now but i can't put to much into when Hoke says they are not up to his expectations. The DL last year never hit his expectations.

    signature image signature image signature image

    WillyWolverine

  • Maize&Blue said...

    I am pretty optimistic about the DL as well. I really like our DEs. I do think the DT spot is iffy right now but i can't put to much into when Hoke says they are not up to his expectations. The DL last year never hit his expectations.

    You're last sentence is the key. The bar is set high for the Dline. With Campbell, Black, Ash... The DTs will be fine.

    xxmgobluexx

  • SpartanRocky said...

    Uhh, most C's aren't pulling to help out on a DE. Even the OG's abilty to help is contingent on Gholston using an inside move; something that most DEs are coached not to do unless it's against a true statue QB because you give up contain.

    Also, Worthy was not a NT; he played 3-tech. White and Pickelman were the NTs last year. Pickelman got hurt in the CCG, so White started the bowl game (7 tackles, 3 TFL). White's position in HS and JUCO was the 3-tech and he's moving over there this year.

    UM fans, for the reasons stated above, I feel that Worthy's departure will not have enormous effects on Gholston. It will affect him, but it will not be overly detrimental to his production.

    Please stop taking everything I'm saying to the n'th flaming degree. I am trying to have rational conversation, and am stating things openly. This is impossible if you are looking for the flame in everything I say.

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    It's ok to point you in a direction that already answers you question, right?

    Sure, I was just being lazy and didn't want to click to page 2 of tBB lol

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • Jandy said...

    Edit: I REALLY WAS JUST ASKING A FREAKING QUESTION. NEVERMIND.

    What? Don't play with my <3 like that.

    xxmgobluexx

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    What? Don't play with my <3 like that.

    lol. +1 for hilarity.

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • Jandy said...

    I have edited Rocky's post for what I think Dantonio did

    Dantonio: Hey Player X, you're our top target at LB

    Player X: really? That's great, but I'm not sure if I want to commit yet

    Dantonio: Well Player X, we really want you, but we only have 1 spot left at LB, and we also think highly of Player Y. Player Y is coming in next week and we would accept his commitment. We do want you more though. . .

    Player X: Hmm . . .well, when you put it that way, I'm Green.

    Player X's Mom: Now, Player X, don't rush into anything.

    Dantonio: Tell ya what, Player X, I can promise you I won't accept another LB committing in place of you until Monday, how's that?

    Player X: Okay, I'll let you know soon.

    Yeah, except you didn't have another LB coming in, so there was no reason why he had to decide by Monday at 5. It was just a way of Dantonio locking him up, which is great.

    I'm not saying it's a bad thing - I fully endorse it. It works. But sitting there and pretending he doesn't pressure commits is just naive.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Ducksworth

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    You're last sentence is the key. The bar is set high for the Dline. With Campbell, Black, Ash... The DTs will be fine.

    After being informed by Greg TTR that Campbell played the best of the DT's in the bowl game last year, I have a very different outlook for UM's DL.

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • SpartanRocky said...

    Uhh, most C's aren't pulling to help out on a DE. Even the OG's abilty to help is contingent on Gholston using an inside move; something that most DEs are coached not to do unless it's against a true statue QB because you give up contain.

    Also, Worthy was not a NT; he played 3-tech. White and Pickelman were the NTs last year. Pickelman got hurt in the CCG, so White started the bowl game (7 tackles, 3 TFL). White's position in HS and JUCO was the 3-tech and he's moving over there this year.

    The logic is the same whether Worthy was the NT or 3-tech. I don't follow MSU closely enough to know exactly where he played every down. I know that we moved Mike Martin around quite a bit last year, but if you say that Worthy always played the 3-tech, fine. It's irrelevant. And if you think that having Worthy did not frequently make Gholston's life easier last season, just wait until this season. My guess is you will be in for a surprise.

    MrWoodson

  • Ducksworth said...

    Yeah, except you didn't have another LB coming in, so there was no reason why he had to decide by Monday at 5. It was just a way of Dantonio locking him up, which is great.

    I'm not saying it's a bad thing - I fully endorse it. It works. But sitting there and pretending he doesn't pressure commits is just naive.

    I think you have framed my viewpoint to fit your argument.

    But whatever, my energy for this thread has been spent foolishly arguing with MrWoodson.

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • MrWoodson said...

    The logic is the same whether Worthy was the NT or 3-tech. I don't follow MSU closely enough to know exactly where he played every down. I know that we moved Mike Martin around quite a bit last year, but if you say that Worthy always played the 3-tech, fine. It's irrelevant. And if you think that having Worthy did not frequently make Gholston's life easier last season, just wait until this season. My guess is you will be in for a surprise.

    My guess is that you're completely guessing and don't much know what you're talking about.

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • Go Wings.

    TerryLove

  • Sorry I'm just trying to break up the monotony with something that we might all be able to agree on.

    TerryLove

  • Jandy said...

    UM fans, for the reasons stated above, I feel that Worthy's departure will not have enormous effects on Gholston. It will affect him, but it will not be overly detrimental to his production.

    Please stop taking everything I'm saying to the n'th flaming degree. I am trying to have rational conversation, and am stating things openly. This is impossible if you are looking for the flame in everything I say.

    The 3-tech does affect whatever DE is on the side he lines up on, because the 3-tech is lining up on the outside shoulder of the OG. The OT does have the option of double teaming the 3-tech, but then you essentially concede the C-gap to the pass-blocking RB, or putting a TE over there (potential mis-match, depending on the TE and the DE). It'd be pretty hard to run in that direction, as you'd have 2 DL tieing up 3 blockers, unless your other OG can pull quick enough to get to the play-side LBs.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • Maize&Blue said...

    I am pretty optimistic about the DL as well. I really like our DEs. I do think the DT spot is iffy right now but i can't put to much into when Hoke says they are not up to his expectations. The DL last year never hit his expectations.

    Not only that, but our LB corps should be significantly better this year. If you consider the front 7 as a group - our DEs might actually be better and our LBs almost certainly will - the group should be fine even if our DTs take a few games to gel or even take a small step backward. FWIW, our secondary (S and CB) also should be better.

    MrWoodson

  • Jandy said...

    I think you have framed my viewpoint to fit your argument.

    But whatever, my energy for this thread has been spent foolishly arguing with MrWoodson.

    It's all good. I'm just saying that Dantonio had no reason to throw out a deadline of Monday at 5 because you have no other LBs (especially as good as Jones) waiting to visit or up on your board. So there's really no reason for him to rush it, but Dantonio wanted to lock him down after a great visit so he gave him that line. Which is fine. That's how you recruit.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Ducksworth

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