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The Official Michigan, MSU, and 1 Random Guy from Arky Thread

  • michagain said...

    I agree with everything said about coach D, but my ? is, does he prefer the little bit lower ranked/chip on their shoulder guys? It blows my mind w what hes done w developing guys, & it would scare the hell out of me if he did start pulling in the higher rated players/classes. I know he offers all the typical high ranked guys, but seems to focus on what he actually gets. If he pulled in a few guys like gohlston (spelling?) every year......scary.

    Mich bball, I view similar to msu football once coach D was hired. Making a steady rise in the conference and nationally w the jury still out, on both, as to where the cap will be. Coach B has done a great job w progress in regular season, but clearly underachieved in postseason. I really could care less about regular season, in the sense that bball postseason is a whole different monster than football. Just get in the tournament, and learn how to win there. Dantonio finally got his 1st bowl win, impressive 1 btw, I only hope coach B can learn to do the same

    FWIW, the team is mostly 3-stars with approx. 2 times the 4-stars as 2-stars.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    Agreed on the natty, it isn't happening at MSU. Rose Bowl, we'll see.

    From a recruiting perspective, I think MSU can definitely reach A Rose Bowl; Wisconsin, Iowa and IL have all had Rose Bowls in the last 8-10 years and I think MSU's recruiting compares favorably with those schools. Whether they can go to multiple BCS bowls . . . well, I think it's fair to say that you have to wait and see.

    A NC would require an uptick in recruiting, which I believe takes at least a full decade of winning at a strong pace. MSU is 2 years into that successful decade; we'll see if they can make it the full 10 years.

    This post was edited by SpartanRocky on 4/18/2012 at 9:28 AM

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • "We beat Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"

    Remember that whole "pride before the fall" thing? Yeah, hypocritical Dantonio is hypocritical.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Ducksworth ●

  • Ducksworth said...

    roflmao

    Care to elaborate? Or is that the juvenile substitute for: "I have no logical way of forming a reasonable rebuttal".

    TerryLove ●

  • TerryLove said...

    Care to elaborate? Or is that the juvenile substitute for: "I have no logical way of forming a reasonable rebuttal".

    The latter. Although I will say that Michigan has a much better chance to make a NC than MSU. Also, if a guy with an 11-2 record at a school is mediocre, that's news to me.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Ducksworth ●

  • SpartanRocky said...

    From a recruiting perspective, I think MSU can definitely reach A Rose Bowl; Wisconsin, Iowa and IL have all had Rose Bowls in the last 8-10 years and I think MSU's recruiting compares favorably with those schools. Whether they can go to multiple BCS bowls . . . well, I think it's fair to say that you have to wait and see.

    A NC would require an uptick in recruiting, which I believe takes at least a full decade of winning at a strong pace. MSU is 2 years into that successful decade; we'll see if they can make it the full 10 years.

    The concept that a Rose Bowl is achievable but a National Championship is not is completely flawed. The difference between the two is winning a single game. Saying a National Championship is impossible to achieve for any top 25 team is really too narrow-minded (other than the exceptions of teams outside of major conferences). There is a certain degree of luck that goes into such a short season. If you can remain competitive in each and every game, you have a chance to win every game.

    TerryLove ●

  • Final Countdown said...

    My, aren't we feisty today? rottentomato

    We all have those days. I am actually in a great mood. Finished my yearly evaluation at work, getting a solid raise. My wife was promoted to manager yesterday at the hospital she works at. Only bad thing is my wife officially shot down me going to the Michigan/Bama game. A 10 day Universal Studios/Disney World/Disney Cruise won out.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • Ducksworth said...

    The latter. Although I will say that Michigan has a much better chance to make a NC than MSU. Also, if a guy with an 11-2 record at a school is mediocre, that's news to me.

    Once again. Care to elaborate on how Michigan has a better chance than MSU? Recently, everything I have witnessed would imply the contrary. When you can beat your in-state rival, then you can begin to dream big. We both return similar teams and I don't think I need to recap the single most objective way of comparing those two teams.

    TerryLove ●

  • TerryLove said...

    We have as good a chance (if not better chance) than U of M to achieve any goal in the near future. Not sure what you're condescending tone is implying, but your team has proven little with Hoke and you could easily end up being below average to mediocre in the Big Ten again this year as you have been for most of the last 5 years.

    I haven't seen anything that would indicate that Hoke will be more than an adequate coach on the field. Your "big" wins were against an extremely down Ohio State at home and above-average Virginia Tech and Notre Dame teams that both statistically dominated a majority of the game. The most impressive victory to me would be against Nebraska, which was also at home. The other relatively important games left a lot to be desired in terms of coaching (at Michigan State, at Iowa). The games that were the most relevant to a conference champion were squandered away for a variety of reasons, but play calling in certain scenarios would have left me shaking my head if I were a Michigan fan.

    There is no questioning the recruiting hauls that you have amassed since his arrival, but again, recruiting rankings and "victories" do not equate to the overall goal of winning games. Time will tell.

    Do you examine what you write before submitting? I understand homerism and disdain for your rival, but your statement is patently ignorant.

    signature image signature image signature image

    MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13

    Due51 ●

  • TerryLove said...

    Care to elaborate? Or is that the juvenile substitute for: "I have no logical way of forming a reasonable rebuttal".

    Duck already covered it, but to say an 11 win team is mediocre is roflmao.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    We all have those days. I am actually in a great mood. Finished my yearly evaluation at work, getting a solid raise. My wife was promoted to manager yesterday at the hospital she works at. Only bad thing is my wife officially shot down me going to the Michigan/Bama game. A 10 day Universal Studios/Disney World/Disney Cruise won out.

    Behind every successful man, there's a woman who seeks to limit his sports intake.

    Final Countdown

  • Final Countdown said...

    Behind every successful man, there's a woman who seeks to limit his sports intake.

    I threw in a chance for her to see a couple cousins that she hasn't seen in years that live in the Dallas. No bites.

    She kept saying something about what the children would like. I don't know, she wasn't making any sense to me.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    I threw in a chance for her to see a couple cousins that she hasn't seen in years that live in the Dallas. No bites.

    She kept saying something about what the children would like. I don't know, she wasn't making any sense to me.

    Solid tactic using family as leverage. Ya win some, ya lose some. Enjoy your vacation.

    Final Countdown

  • Ducksworth said...

    "We beat Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"

    Remember that whole "pride before the fall" thing? Yeah, hypocritical Dantonio is hypocritical.

    Yeah that man isn't worried. He shouldn't be at least. I mean he's built up his cred so much that MSU slappys think they're gonna win them a Natty soon..ninja

    signature image

    Do infants have as much fun in infancy as adults do in adultery?

    AnthonyBourdain ●

  • TerryLove said...

    The concept that a Rose Bowl is achievable but a National Championship is not is completely flawed. The difference between the two is winning a single game. Saying a National Championship is impossible to achieve for any top 25 team is really too narrow-minded (other than the exceptions of teams outside of major conferences). There is a certain degree of luck that goes into such a short season. If you can remain competitive in each and every game, you have a chance to win every game.

    Not necessarily. You can go to the Rose bowl with a 10-3 record, because all you need to do is get to the CCG, which just requires you to win your division. 7-1/6-2 can win a division (Wisky was 6-2 last year in conf.), while that same conf. record will have you out of the NC discussion.

    To get to the NC, unless you play in the SEC/there's some craziness going on, requires an undefeated regular season.
    It's very hard to go through the CFB schedule unscathed. It requires superior depth and talent across the board compared to your competition, something MSU does not have right now. It is much easier to go 10-2/9-3 during the regular season; there's actually room for error, especially with tie-breakers.

    This post was edited by SpartanRocky on 4/18/2012 at 10:13 AM

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • TerryLove said...

    Once again. Care to elaborate on how Michigan has a better chance than MSU? Recently, everything I have witnessed would imply the contrary. When you can beat your in-state rival, then you can begin to dream big. We both return similar teams and I don't think I need to recap the single most objective way of comparing those two teams.

    It always makes me laugh when Sparty tries to diminish Coach Hoke's first year, while extolling the virtues of Mr. Laying in the Weeds. I like to compare the programs from where they were to where they are. For instance, here's a comparison of the first season for each coach:
    MSU 2007 after Dantonio took over for Bobby Williams.
    7 - 6 overall
    5 -2 at home, biggest win was against Penn State
    2 - 4 on the road. "Biggest" win was at Notre Dame, who finished 3-9 for the year.
    Defense improved by 2.4ppg over 2010 while giving up 12 les yards per game.
    Offense improved 9ppg and gained an average of 70 yards per game over 2010

    Compare that to Coach Hoke's first year, after taking over the worst 3 year stretch in the 100+ year history of Michigan football.
    11-2
    8-0 at home. biggest wins" comeback v ND, Blowout of Nebraska, Ohio State.
    4 straight wins to close out the season.
    Victory in bowl game.
    Defense gave up 17 less ppg and yielded 130 less yards than 2010
    Offense scored virtually the same ppg but gained an average of 70 less yards per game than 2010.

    That's just one season. Hoke did exponentially better in his first season than Dantonio did in his. Yet you still claim he's proved nothing.

    Do you have a newsletter? I'm thinking of subscribing.

    signature image signature image signature image

    MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13

    Due51 ●

  • TerryLove said...

    Once again. Care to elaborate on how Michigan has a better chance than MSU? Recently, everything I have witnessed would imply the contrary. When you can beat your in-state rival, then you can begin to dream big. We both return similar teams and I don't think I need to recap the single most objective way of comparing those two teams.

    Um... I can elaborate.

    Michigan has a better chance to make the NC game than MSU:

    1. Michigan had a better season last year (I know, this is debatable, but it can be said).
    2. MSU does not "return a similar team." Both teams lose some players, but stats will show that losing your QB is much more signficant than any other position.
    3. Michigan is adding more talent this year. Granted they are freshman, but the talent gap widens a bit. Importantly, when looking at past NC game participants, you can usually look at past recruiting rankings. The level of talent you have dictates your ceiling. Michigan's ceiling is higher, hence a better chance at the NC game.
    4. UM is more likely to be voted high enough to make the game than MSU, even if they have similar teams. Rankings affect who plays in the NC.
    5. Michigan can expect to grow in its second year in the same schemes. This happens for most teams after a transition to a new system. MSU already had that bump and can't expect it next year.

    To say MSU has a better chance is completely unsupported. The only thing you point to is MSU's win over Michigan in EL last year. (EDIT: BTW - And that game won't be played in EL this year and we all know Dantonio's record against good teams on the road).

    This post was edited by Peterklima on 4/18/2012 at 10:54 AM

    Peterklima

  • What does Michigan fans think about Hoke's 1-2 record vs Big Ten teams that finished the regular season above 6-6?

    OTPT

  • Peterklima said...

    Um... I can elaborate.

    Michigan has a better chance to make the NC game than MSU:

    1. Michigan had a better season last year (I know, this is debatable, but it can be said). 2. MSU does not "return a similar team." Both teams lose some players, but stats will show that losing your QB is much more signficant than any other position. 3. Michigan is adding more talent this year. Granted they are freshman, but the talent gap widens a bit. Importantly, when looking at past NC game participants, you can usually look at past recruiting rankings. The level of talent you have dictates your ceiling. Michigan's ceiling is higher, hence a better chance at the NC game. 4. UM is more likely to be voted high enough to make the game than MSU, even if they have similar teams. Rankings affect who plays in the NC. 5. Michigan can expect to grow in its second year in the same schemes. This happens for most teams after a transition to a new system. MSU already had that bump and can't expect it next year.

    To say MSU has a better chance is completely unsupported. The only thing you point to is MSU's win over Michigan in EL last year. (EDIT: BTW - And that game won't be played in EL this year and we all know Dantonio's record against good teams on the road).

    Well that certainly settles it.

    Scrap the program.

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    Now knowing what 1995 is like all over again! Thank you 247 technology!!

    InTenSity ●

  • OTPT said...

    What does Michigan fans think about Hoke's 1-2 record vs Big Ten teams that finished the regular season above 6-6?

    Statistically insignificant. Call me in a couple years if the record is similar.

    Peterklima

  • InTenSity said...

    Well that certainly settles it.

    Scrap the program.

    Don't scrap it. Just recruit more talent and make other improvements. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is a NC contendor. MSU can't expect to attract the talent to compete for NCs after two good years.

    Slow down and build.

    This post was edited by Peterklima on 4/18/2012 at 11:01 AM

    Peterklima

  • TerryLove said...

    The concept that a Rose Bowl is achievable but a National Championship is not is completely flawed. The difference between the two is winning a single game. Saying a National Championship is impossible to achieve for any top 25 team is really too narrow-minded (other than the exceptions of teams outside of major conferences). There is a certain degree of luck that goes into such a short season. If you can remain competitive in each and every game, you have a chance to win every game.

    The difference being that every team that has won a NC in the past decade has at least one top 5 recruiting class that contributed to that championship and usually at least a couple top 10 classes. MSU is no where near that level in recruiting at this point in time.

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    WillyWolverine

  • Peterklima said...

    Um... I can elaborate.

    Michigan has a better chance to make the NC game than MSU:

    1. Michigan had a better season last year (I know, this is debatable, but it can be said). 2. MSU does not "return a similar team." Both teams lose some players, but stats will show that losing your QB is much more signficant than any other position. 3. Michigan is adding more talent this year. Granted they are freshman, but the talent gap widens a bit. Importantly, when looking at past NC game participants, you can usually look at past recruiting rankings. The level of talent you have dictates your ceiling. Michigan's ceiling is higher, hence a better chance at the NC game. 4. UM is more likely to be voted high enough to make the game than MSU, even if they have similar teams. Rankings affect who plays in the NC. 5. Michigan can expect to grow in its second year in the same schemes. This happens for most teams after a transition to a new system. MSU already had that bump and can't expect it next year.

    To say MSU has a better chance is completely unsupported. The only thing you point to is MSU's win over Michigan in EL last year.

    If we're talking this year, neither team has a realistic chance at a NC.

    UM has the program in place to reach a NC. MSU could potentially have such a program, but I doubt it materializes in the next decade.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • Maize&Blue said...

    The difference being that every team that has won a NC in the past decade has at least one top 5 recruiting class that contributed to that championship and usually at least a couple top 10 classes. MSU is no where near that level in recruiting at this point in time.

    I believe it's top 10 recruiting class (Auburn being the most recent), but the point is well taken.

    Again, in order to improve recruiting, MSU has to win consistently. That's not 2 years; it's at least a decade, if not more.

    As is, MSU is capable of contending for Big 10 titles. If you can reach the CCG, your program has a legit shot at the Rose Bowl.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • TerryLove said...

    Once again. Care to elaborate on how Michigan has a better chance than MSU? Recently, everything I have witnessed would imply the contrary. When you can beat your in-state rival, then you can begin to dream big. We both return similar teams and I don't think I need to recap the single most objective way of comparing those two teams.

    I don't think anyone was expecting Hoke to beat MSU in his first year, and I don't even expect it in his second year honestly. However, he's proven he can turn around a horrible defense and he's recruiting players that are bigger and more physical which will help compete in the big ten. MSU fans think it's a lame thing to say (and maybe it is) but I think that ultimately Michigan will start beating MSU and competing for the B1G championship consistently simply because the players they have on the field will be more talented than other teams. I don't think MSU will get worse, they might even improve, I just believe that in year 3 or 4 under Hoke Michigan will be better.

    otwp12

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