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Final Countdown said...
I disagree strongly. I can understand your point about MSU facing heavy competition in the region and the fact that it will never be a "traditional power." But here are a few reasons why MSU can (and will) improve even further:
1. Facilities improvements (scoreboard, lockerrooms, recruiting lounge)
2. OL development. This is the first year that MD's pro-style offense finally has a quality OL.
3. Putting guys in the NFL. There was a shortage of draft picks during the BW/JLS turmoil. That's picking up now.
4. Depth and consistency. Having good depth raises your floor and helps you build a consistent winner. Being consistent can raise your program's profile, even if it has a lower ceiling (see: Wisconsin).
5. Defense. It wins championships. It's finally back in East Lansing.
6. Perception. MSU is no longer a program stuck in mediocrity and people recognize it.xxmgobluexx
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xxmgobluexx said...
1. Minnesota just build a new stadium. PSU totally revamped their whole weight room. Michigan just installed their new scoreboards. Indiana I believe renovated their stadium and read that they have the second largest weight room in the nation... It is an arms race, MSU is no different than any other school.
2. The is to be seen. One of the worst rushing offenses in the B1G =/= quality, in my book.
3. All schools do, MSU is no different in that aspect.
4. Agreed, depth raises the floor, but as you stated doesn't raise the ceiling. MSU has hit that with Coach D. He might win a natty if he went to a program with a higher ceiling.
5. Defense was solid, and defense does win championships. As others have said though, MSU gave up 24 or more points in 6 games last year. Finished behind Michigan in several key stats in B1G, and that is with having more talent than Michigan. Coach D is can get it done, but that only means so much at MSU.
6. They are raising their profile, but it will always play second fiddle in the state behind Michigan, regionally behind tOSU, ND, PSU, Nebraska...
MSU isn't going to be a bottom dweller with coach D there. He is to good of a coach to let that happen. If he was at a school that elite level kids wanted to play at, he could win a natty. That isn't happening where he is now.
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Final Countdown said...
I'm not claiming that MSU is going to compete for a NC on an annual basis. Few schools do. But does that mean that MD has "reached his ceiling" at MSU? No. I'm not sure why you're equating the two. There are still many attainable goals on the docket, namely a Rose Bowl. We have plenty of forward momentum.
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Final Countdown
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TerryLove
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TerryLove said...
We have as good a chance (if not better chance) than U of M to achieve any goal in the near future. Not sure what you're condescending tone is implying, but your team has proven little with Hoke and you could easily end up being below average to mediocre in the Big Ten again this year as you have been for most of the last 5 years.
I haven't seen anything that would indicate that Hoke will be more than an adequate coach on the field. Your "big" wins were against an extremely down Ohio State at home and above-average Virginia Tech and Notre Dame teams that both statistically dominated a majority of the game. The most impressive victory to me would be against Nebraska, which was also at home. The other relatively important games left a lot to be desired in terms of coaching (at Michigan State, at Iowa). The games that were the most relevant to a conference champion were squandered away for a variety of reasons, but play calling in certain scenarios would have left me shaking my head if I were a Michigan fan.
There is no questioning the recruiting hauls that you have amassed since his arrival, but again, recruiting rankings and "victories" do not equate to the overall goal of winning games. Time will tell.
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michagain said...
I agree with everything said about coach D, but my ? is, does he prefer the little bit lower ranked/chip on their shoulder guys? It blows my mind w what hes done w developing guys, & it would scare the hell out of me if he did start pulling in the higher rated players/classes. I know he offers all the typical high ranked guys, but seems to focus on what he actually gets. If he pulled in a few guys like gohlston (spelling?) every year......scary.
Mich bball, I view similar to msu football once coach D was hired. Making a steady rise in the conference and nationally w the jury still out, on both, as to where the cap will be. Coach B has done a great job w progress in regular season, but clearly underachieved in postseason. I really could care less about regular season, in the sense that bball postseason is a whole different monster than football. Just get in the tournament, and learn how to win there. Dantonio finally got his 1st bowl win, impressive 1 btw, I only hope coach B can learn to do the same
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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SpartanRocky said...
From a recruiting perspective, I think MSU can definitely reach A Rose Bowl; Wisconsin, Iowa and IL have all had Rose Bowls in the last 8-10 years and I think MSU's recruiting compares favorably with those schools. Whether they can go to multiple BCS bowls . . . well, I think it's fair to say that you have to wait and see.
A NC would require an uptick in recruiting, which I believe takes at least a full decade of winning at a strong pace. MSU is 2 years into that successful decade; we'll see if they can make it the full 10 years.
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TerryLove said...
We have as good a chance (if not better chance) than U of M to achieve any goal in the near future. Not sure what you're condescending tone is implying, but your team has proven little with Hoke and you could easily end up being below average to mediocre in the Big Ten again this year as you have been for most of the last 5 years.
I haven't seen anything that would indicate that Hoke will be more than an adequate coach on the field. Your "big" wins were against an extremely down Ohio State at home and above-average Virginia Tech and Notre Dame teams that both statistically dominated a majority of the game. The most impressive victory to me would be against Nebraska, which was also at home. The other relatively important games left a lot to be desired in terms of coaching (at Michigan State, at Iowa). The games that were the most relevant to a conference champion were squandered away for a variety of reasons, but play calling in certain scenarios would have left me shaking my head if I were a Michigan fan.
There is no questioning the recruiting hauls that you have amassed since his arrival, but again, recruiting rankings and "victories" do not equate to the overall goal of winning games. Time will tell.
MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13
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xxmgobluexx
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xxmgobluexx said...
We all have those days. I am actually in a great mood. Finished my yearly evaluation at work, getting a solid raise. My wife was promoted to manager yesterday at the hospital she works at. Only bad thing is my wife officially shot down me going to the Michigan/Bama game. A 10 day Universal Studios/Disney World/Disney Cruise won out.
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Ducksworth said...
"We beat Michigan the last four years. So where's the threat?"
Remember that whole "pride before the fall" thing? Yeah, hypocritical Dantonio is hypocritical.
Yeah that man isn't worried. He shouldn't be at least. I mean he's built up his cred so much that MSU slappys think they're gonna win them a Natty soon..
Do infants have as much fun in infancy as adults do in adultery?
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TerryLove said...
The concept that a Rose Bowl is achievable but a National Championship is not is completely flawed. The difference between the two is winning a single game. Saying a National Championship is impossible to achieve for any top 25 team is really too narrow-minded (other than the exceptions of teams outside of major conferences). There is a certain degree of luck that goes into such a short season. If you can remain competitive in each and every game, you have a chance to win every game.
This post was edited by SpartanRocky on 4/18/2012 at 10:13 AM
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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TerryLove said...
Once again. Care to elaborate on how Michigan has a better chance than MSU? Recently, everything I have witnessed would imply the contrary. When you can beat your in-state rival, then you can begin to dream big. We both return similar teams and I don't think I need to recap the single most objective way of comparing those two teams.
MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13
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TerryLove said...
Once again. Care to elaborate on how Michigan has a better chance than MSU? Recently, everything I have witnessed would imply the contrary. When you can beat your in-state rival, then you can begin to dream big. We both return similar teams and I don't think I need to recap the single most objective way of comparing those two teams.
This post was edited by Peterklima on 4/18/2012 at 10:54 AM
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Peterklima said...
Um... I can elaborate.
Michigan has a better chance to make the NC game than MSU:
1. Michigan had a better season last year (I know, this is debatable, but it can be said). 2. MSU does not "return a similar team." Both teams lose some players, but stats will show that losing your QB is much more signficant than any other position. 3. Michigan is adding more talent this year. Granted they are freshman, but the talent gap widens a bit. Importantly, when looking at past NC game participants, you can usually look at past recruiting rankings. The level of talent you have dictates your ceiling. Michigan's ceiling is higher, hence a better chance at the NC game. 4. UM is more likely to be voted high enough to make the game than MSU, even if they have similar teams. Rankings affect who plays in the NC. 5. Michigan can expect to grow in its second year in the same schemes. This happens for most teams after a transition to a new system. MSU already had that bump and can't expect it next year.
To say MSU has a better chance is completely unsupported. The only thing you point to is MSU's win over Michigan in EL last year. (EDIT: BTW - And that game won't be played in EL this year and we all know Dantonio's record against good teams on the road).
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The Official Michigan, MSU, and 1 Random Guy from Arky Thread