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Big M said...
Ok..and yet that roster won 4 games the year before. Did you think at the start of 2007 that MSU's roster was that good?
You might be right..but my point is that the roster can look very different in retrospect with a better coaching staff.
And no, Denard is not a drop back passer, but he can throw, and again, if you've been reading the reports sprinkling out of practice, Denard is still to run a lot.
I guess I have a problem with people (some UM fans), who seem to think Denard is somehow going to be a liability. He's going to be an incredible asset. If UM wins 7 games or less, it will be because of the defense, not because of Denard.
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Harry Callahan said...
If last year is anything like this year, Denard will be able to throw when he has time. When he's pressured at all, he'll either throw a pick or start running. It will be interesting to see if he hangs in the pocket and trusts his arm or if he escapes and starts running.
Personally, I think Denard is going to go all happy feet on us and run a lot. It will just be less running out of designed running plays. He'll get his yards. If I'm a UM fan, I'd be far more concerned about my defense.
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Big M said...
Ok..and yet that roster won 4 games the year before. Did you think at the start of 2007 that MSU's roster was that good?
You might be right..but my point is that the roster can look very different in retrospect with a better coaching staff.
And no, Denard is not a drop back passer, but he can throw, and again, if you've been reading the reports sprinkling out of practice, Denard is still to run a lot.
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Harry Callahan said...
Personally, I think Denard is going to go all happy feet on us and run a lot. It will just be less running out of designed running plays. He'll get his yards. If I'm a UM fan, I'd be far more concerned about my defense.
All reports out of fall camp has been just that, he goes through about 2 reads and then bolts. And as a Michigan fan, I get soooo giddy when I hear that.
It's one thing when it's a designed run play and the entire defense keys in on you, and Denard was extremely dangerous then. It's a completely different thing when you take off 3-4 seconds later and half the defense is focused on something else. If I had one gripe with Denard last season, it was that he never really wanted to take off, he wanted to make that throw. He hardly ever ran on passing plays, I'm very excited to see him start.
And as a Michigan fan... yeah I'm far far more concerned about the Defense. The Offense is going to be good... the Defense is the question mark.
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
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bb011 said...
I guess its all relative, what expectations do you think of as not that high? I have heard that 7-8 wins is what michigan fans want/expect from hoke the first year and most say they would be disappointed with 6 or less wins. I think there is a good chance that michigan only gets 6 or 5 wins this year and if that happened many fans would be disappointed with hokes first year ...
Even Rocky doesn't expect us to get 5 wins..
As long as we make a bowl game and the defense shows some signs of improvement, we'll be happy. 6 games probably would be a disappointment, and I don't think that 7-8 is unreasonable at all. That's what everyone's saying, not just us
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Harry Callahan said...
Yeah... that's likely true. However, I just can't read any of the Detroit area rags without seeing the maize and blue tint. I'll wait until the Notre Dame game.
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theyellowdart said...
All reports out of fall camp has been just that, he goes through about 2 reads and then bolts. And as a Michigan fan, I get soooo giddy when I hear that.
It's one thing when it's a designed run play and the entire defense keys in on you, and Denard was extremely dangerous then. It's a completely different thing when you take off 3-4 seconds later and half the defense is focused on something else. If I had one gripe with Denard last season, it was that he never really wanted to take off, he wanted to make that throw. He hardly ever ran on passing plays, I'm very excited to see him start.
And as a Michigan fan... yeah I'm far far more concerned about the Defense. The Offense is going to be good... the Defense is the question mark.
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Joester16 said...
Well I think it was a quote straight from Borges so. I think the type of offense that will be ran will let Denard have more success than last year. Teams will have to account for his passing game. He's not just going to take a direct snap and run as much this year.
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Peterklima said...
...And the year before last year MSU was BELOW .500.
So, which is the outlier?
Looking at last year only (which you seem to think is okay since you cite the 11 wins) the schedule was very kind, the turnovers flowed MSU's way and the players lost were the best defenders. The road blowouts in that "cinderella year" also raise questions about last year. Last year is not indicative of how MSU will look when things aren't set up for them. (Just like UM's easy non-conference schedules have not been indicative of their late in the year play).
What happens when they play games outside the state of Michigan, the turnovers revert to the mean and younger players have to fill in?
I think the factors show they will look more like the 6 wins team from 2009 than the 11 win team from last year.
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Peterklima said...
There is no spin there. Just the facts.
I think looking at the two programs, UM wins 7 and so does State. I even think the UM/MSU game goes to State because it is in EL and the teams are about even.
What I am trying to say is that the optimism from MSU fans is not based on anything we have seen to date. It is based solely on a belief that they can make a giant leap forward and start beating the best teams and winning tough games on the road. Lions would have to lie down with lambs for that to happen. And the rhetoric about "so much depth and talent" is weird because MSU isn't known to recruit a lot of good talent. Plus, a lot of true sophs and RS frosh are expected on the 2 deep. That isa concern for most programs who are not filling their 2 deep with 4 and 5 star talent all around. It sounds very familiar to what was coming out of EL before their 6W-7L season two years ago. Its the same coach, same level of recruits and same program as then.
Dantonio's most impressive feat, by far, is beating Michigan teams. He is really fired up for it. beyond that, nothing much in the way of accomplishments.
Now, if you want to argue one 11 win season is indicative of coach who can win 9+ on a yearly basis, let me tell you about the unprecedented heights B. Hoke took Ball State to.....
The recent recruiting classes have been the best in a very long time at MSU...and with the best coaching in a while..
You think we are the same program as we were back in 2009? You're saying winning the Big Ten isn't impressive?
Just another ignorant michigan fan.. surprise surprise. Can't wait to make it 4 in a row on you clowns.
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Harry Callahan said...
Shocking that our turnovers decreased from a platoon QB system with 2 first year starters to a second year Kirk Cousins. Cousins must have been getting really lucky out there. Poor guy doesn't know that he's about to throw tons and tons of interceptions because PeterKlima said his luck ran out. Darn.
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Peterklima said...
There is no spin there. Just the facts.
I think looking at the two programs, UM wins 7 and so does State. I even think the UM/MSU game goes to State because it is in EL and the teams are about even.
What I am trying to say is that the optimism from MSU fans is not based on anything we have seen to date. It is based solely on a belief that they can make a giant leap forward and start beating the best teams and winning tough games on the road. Lions would have to lie down with lambs for that to happen. And the rhetoric about "so much depth and talent" is weird because MSU isn't known to recruit a lot of good talent. Plus, a lot of true sophs and RS frosh are expected on the 2 deep. That isa concern for most programs who are not filling their 2 deep with 4 and 5 star talent all around. It sounds very familiar to what was coming out of EL before their 6W-7L season two years ago. Its the same coach, same level of recruits and same program as then.
Dantonio's most impressive feat, by far, is beating Michigan teams. He is really fired up for it. beyond that, nothing much in the way of accomplishments.
Now, if you want to argue one 11 win season is indicative of coach who can win 9+ on a yearly basis, let me tell you about the unprecedented heights B. Hoke took Ball State to.....
This post was edited by Harry Callahan on 8/29/2011 at 6:56 PM
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Peterklima said...
There is no spin there. Just the facts.
I think looking at the two programs, UM wins 7 and so does State. I even think the UM/MSU game goes to State because it is in EL and the teams are about even.
What I am trying to say is that the optimism from MSU fans is not based on anything we have seen to date. It is based solely on a belief that they can make a giant leap forward and start beating the best teams and winning tough games on the road. Lions would have to lie down with lambs for that to happen. And the rhetori about "so much depth and ltalent" is weird because MSU isn't known to recruit a lot of good talent. Plus, a lot of true sophs and RS frosh are expected on the 2 deep. That isa concern for most programs who are not filling their 2 deep with 4 and 5 star talent all around. It sounds very familiar to what was coming out of EL before their 6W-7L season two years ago. Its the same coach, same level of recruits and same program as then.
Dantonio's most impressive feat, by far, is beating Michigan teams. He is really fired up for it. beyond that, nothing much in the way of accomplishments.
Now, if you want to argue one 11 win season is indicative of coach who can win 9+ on a yearly basis, let me tell you about the unprecidented heights B. Hoke took Ball State to.....
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OTPT said...
The recent recruiting classes have been the best in a very long time at MSU...and with the best coaching in a while..
You think we are the same program as we were back in 2009? You're saying winning the Big Ten isn't impressive?
Just another ignorant michigan fan.. surprise surprise. Can't wait to make it 4 in a row on you clowns.
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Peterklima said...
There is no spin there. Just the facts.
I think looking at the two programs, UM wins 7 and so does State. I even think the UM/MSU game goes to State because it is in EL and the teams are about even.
What I am trying to say is that the optimism from MSU fans is not based on anything we have seen to date. It is based solely on a belief that they can make a giant leap forward and start beating the best teams and winning tough games on the road. Lions would have to lie down with lambs for that to happen. And the rhetoric about "so much depth and talent" is weird because MSU isn't known to recruit a lot of good talent. Plus, a lot of true sophs and RS frosh are expected on the 2 deep. That isa concern for most programs who are not filling their 2 deep with 4 and 5 star talent all around. It sounds very familiar to what was coming out of EL before their 6W-7L season two years ago. Its the same coach, same level of recruits and same program as then.
Dantonio's most impressive feat, by far, is beating Michigan teams. He is really fired up for it. beyond that, nothing much in the way of accomplishments.
Now, if you want to argue one 11 win season is indicative of coach who can win 9+ on a yearly basis, let me tell you about the unprecedented heights B. Hoke took Ball State to.....
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Peterklima said...
Who says they were the best classes "in a very long time"?
I am saying that MSU, under the same coach and with the same levl of players, is the same programs as 2009. Just because the breaks went MSU's way last year and they fell into a tie for the B10 championship does not change the fundamentals of the program.
When MSU beats someone impressive or strings a couple impressive wins into the same season call me. Until then, MSU's claim to fame is that Dantonio hates UM and stays up nights figuring out ways to beat them. A good thing for MSU fans, but not the type of resume that says we will compete for the B10 title consistently.
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according to who..? Our posters have always said our expectations aren't that high
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The Official Michigan, MSU, and 1 Random Guy from Arky Thread