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The Official Michigan, MSU, and 1 Random Guy from Arky Thread

  • Peterklima said...

    Who says they were the best classes "in a very long time"?

    I am saying that MSU, under the same coach and with the same levl of players, is the same programs as 2009. Just because the breaks went MSU's way last year and they fell into a tie for the B10 championship does not change the fundamentals of the program.

    When MSU beats someone impressive or strings a couple impressive wins into the same season call me. Until then, MSU's claim to fame is that Dantonio hates UM and stays up nights figuring out ways to beat them. A good thing for MSU fans, but not the type of resume that says we will compete for the B10 title consistently.

    Um, it was one of their better classes in a long time.

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    um_king ●

  • Big M said...

    MSU went 11-1 last year, and their optimism isn't based on anything you've seen to date?

    Are you insane?

    Yes, their optimism for this year is not based on anything I saw last year. Last year I saw them play an easy schedule and be bailed out by their senior LBs who are gone.

    Peterklima

  • Peterklima said...

    Who says they were the best classes "in a very long time"?

    I am saying that MSU, under the same coach and with the same levl of players, is the same programs as 2009. Just because the breaks went MSU's way last year and they fell into a tie for the B10 championship does not change the fundamentals of the program.

    When MSU beats someone impressive or strings a couple impressive wins into the same season call me. Until then, MSU's claim to fame is that Dantonio hates UM and stays up nights figuring out ways to beat them. A good thing for MSU fans, but not the type of resume that says we will compete for the B10 title consistently.

    Heh, he stays up at night figuring out ways to beat UM?

    He's in your head.

    Harry Callahan ●

  • Peterklima said...

    Yes, their optimism for this year is not based on anything I saw last year. Last year I saw them play an easy schedule and be bailed out by their senior LBs who are gone.

    Alright, not even worth it to you argue with you. You're speaking from a place that existed 10 years ago. Need to wake up my friend.

    Big M

  • um_king said...

    Pretty sure we have a new defensive staff, including one who has had great success in college and the NFL. Not to mention we go from an idiot DB coach to one who is competent/good. You also forgot one of the best OL in the Big Ten. And if you are going to point out our weaknesses and laugh at us, why would you include our offense, especially our QB, but then leave out our kicking game? Step your (trolling) game up.

    Your defense isn't going to be world beaters in one season. They will be better, but they can't get worse.

    This Peter guy is just a moran. Let's move along.

    OTPT

  • Thoughts and prayers go out to the Dantonio family and Spartan nation.

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    Go Blue & Gig Em'!

    TAMUWolverine ●

  • OTPT said...

    Your defense isn't going to be world beaters in one season. They will be better, but they can't get worse.

    This Peter guy is just a moran. Let's move along.

    I agree about moving on. I don't think any of us expect for the defense to be elite, but if we can move from bottom of the B1G (and the nation) to around the middle, I think that would go along way and possibly be worth an extra win or two (from last year).

    I've seen both Michigan and OSU released their 2-deeps today, have you guys released yours?

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    um_king ●

  • TAMUWolverine said...

    Thoughts and prayers go out to the Dantonio family and Spartan nation.

    agreed

    Has to be a very rough time for Dantonio, can't imagine being in his position right now.

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    um_king ●

  • um_king said...

    Has to be a very rough time for Dantonio, can't imagine being in his position right now.

    Agreed. Coach D and his family will be in my prayers.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • Peterklima said...

    Yes, their optimism for this year is not based on anything I saw last year. Last year I saw them play an easy schedule and be bailed out by their senior LBs who are gone.

    lol Examples where we were bailed out by Gordon and Jones please.

    News Flash: There should be very little drop off from Gordon and Jones to Allen/Gardiner and Bullough

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    Players play, tough players win.

    Victory for MSU

  • Victory for MSU said...

    lol Examples where we were bailed out by Gordon and Jones please.

    News Flash: There should be very little drop off from Gordon and Jones to Allen/Gardiner and Bullough

    So you think it is going to be easy to replace 2 3 (or 4) year starters?

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    um_king ●

  • Victory for MSU said...

    lol Examples where we were bailed out by Gordon and Jones please.

    News Flash: There should be very little drop off from Gordon and Jones to Allen/Gardiner and Bullough

    Here is where I disagree with MSU fans. I don't care how athletically gifted the new guys supposedly are, you are just not going to replace 2 4 year starters at a position like LB and not experience a drop off, period.

    Maybe Greg Jones put on too much weight last year, but it is very unlikely his replacement is able to replicate his experience and instincts he accumulated.

    Big M

  • um_king said...

    So you think it is going to be easy to replace 2 3 (or 4) year starters?

    No, it won't be easy, but I don't think there will be a ton of drop off.

    I really think Bullough can be as good as Jones and certainly has a different skill set. He is quicker horizontally and will be better in coverage (where Jones had some struggles). GJ's biggest asset was his ability to take on blockers and getting to the QB in blitzes. We probably rushed him on 3rd down more often then keeping him in coverage.

    With the way it looks like our line is developing, our MIKE will not need to take on as many blockers or blitz a ton.

    signature image

    Players play, tough players win.

    Victory for MSU

  • Big M said...

    Here is where I disagree with MSU fans. I don't care how athletically gifted the new guys supposedly are, you are just not going to replace 2 4 year starters at a position like LB and not experience a drop off, period.

    Maybe Greg Jones put on too much weight last year, but it is very unlikely his replacement is able to replicate his experience and instincts he accumulated.

    I agree and this is my major worry with our LBs. Bullough comes from a family of d-coordinators and linebackers and the coaches have raved about how well he has picked up the offense. The Allen/Gardiner duo are in their 3rd and 4th years of playing in the same system.

    It should as help having a senior safety and captain in T-Robinson helping out with anything deep.

    signature image

    Players play, tough players win.

    Victory for MSU

  • Big M said...

    Alright, not even worth it to you argue with you. You're speaking from a place that existed 10 years ago. Need to wake up my friend.

    I am talking about their current coaches track record of 7 win seasons.

    You must be easily impressed by statistical outliers and rare occurances. Tell me, do you think Texas is a dead program because they had a horrible year...or that Zook's 2007(?) Illinois team was a sign of things to come year-in and year-out?

    C'mon, tell me what has changed (other than "intangibles") that leads you to think that MSU's middle of the road B10 finishes are in the rearview mirror. Surely not their level of player or coach.

    Peterklima

  • Big M said...

    Ok..and yet that roster won 4 games the year before. Did you think at the start of 2007 that MSU's roster was that good?

    You might be right..but my point is that the roster can look very different in retrospect with a better coaching staff.

    And no, Denard is not a drop back passer, but he can throw, and again, if you've been reading the reports sprinkling out of practice, Denard is still to run a lot.

    No, we didn't expect a bowl in 2007. Doesn't that make my point for me though about our perception of UM?

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky ●

  • SpartanRocky said...

    No, we didn't expect a bowl in 2007. Doesn't that make my point for me though about our perception of UM?

    My point is talent can look a lot worse with a poor coaching staff.

    Big M

  • Peterklima said...

    I am talking about their current coaches track record of 7 win seasons.

    You must be easily impressed by statistical outliers and rare occurances. Tell me, do you think Texas is a dead program because they had a horrible year...or that Zook's 2007(?) Illinois team was a sign of things to come year-in and year-out?

    C'mon, tell me what has changed (other than "intangibles") that leads you to think that MSU's middle of the road B10 finishes are in the rearview mirror. Surely not their level of player or coach.

    How about UM? 3 years of 7 or less win seasons. Sign of things to come?

    Harry Callahan ●

  • Peterklima said...

    I am talking about their current coaches track record of 7 win seasons.

    You must be easily impressed by statistical outliers and rare occurances. Tell me, do you think Texas is a dead program because they had a horrible year...or that Zook's 2007(?) Illinois team was a sign of things to come year-in and year-out?

    C'mon, tell me what has changed (other than "intangibles") that leads you to think that MSU's middle of the road B10 finishes are in the rearview mirror. Surely not their level of player or coach.

    You mean, beyond...

    - 33-19 overall and 20-12 B1G record under our current coach
    - 4 straight bowl games
    - Big Ten championship
    - A nucleus of returning players that includes a 3rd year starter at QB
    - 9 Rivals all-B1G

    signature image

    Players play, tough players win.

    Victory for MSU

  • Peterklima said...

    I am talking about their current coaches track record of 7 win seasons.

    You must be easily impressed by statistical outliers and rare occurances. Tell me, do you think Texas is a dead program because they had a horrible year...or that Zook's 2007(?) Illinois team was a sign of things to come year-in and year-out?

    C'mon, tell me what has changed (other than "intangibles") that leads you to think that MSU's middle of the road B10 finishes are in the rearview mirror. Surely not their level of player or coach.

    You went from looking at this years team, to citing all these things that happened in the past.

    Skeptical of the OLine? I can see it. Think the LBs might be too inexperienced? In terms of starts, sure. Tough road schedule? Without a doubt.

    But saying "Well, I don't think MSU's recent history isn't great, so I think they'll be bad this year" isn't a sound argument.

    GMSparty12 ●

  • Victory for MSU said...

    You mean, beyond...

    - 33-19 overall and 20-12 B1G record under our current coach - 4 straight bowl games - Big Ten championship - A nucleus of returning players that includes a 3rd year starter at QB - 9 Rivals all-B1G

    This. I think the program is trending up. Still work to do, but I think the foundation is in place to do so. Gotta win some of these big road games and gotta impress if and when MSU makes a bowl.

    GMSparty12 ●

  • Victory for MSU said...

    You mean, beyond...

    - 33-19 overall and 20-12 B1G record under our current coach - 4 straight bowl games - Big Ten championship - A nucleus of returning players that includes a 3rd year starter at QB - 9 Rivals all-B1G

    4 straight bowl losses
    Co-Big Ten Championship

    biggrin

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    um_king ●

  • Victory for MSU said...

    You mean, beyond...

    - 33-19 overall and 20-12 B1G record under our current coach
    - 4 straight bowl games
    - Big Ten championship
    - A nucleus of returning players that includes a 3rd year starter at QB
    - 9 Rivals all-B1G

    Once again, you are hanging your almost exclusively hat on last year.

    1. What is Dantonio's record at MSU without the "dream season"? Just above .500?

    2. That share of the B10 championship, once again the outlier season.

    3. Losing 4 straight bowl games is nothing to brag about when suggesting your coach will soon outperform his resume.

    4. The Rivals all B10 team? Didn't CBS just have an all-american team with two Wolverine's on the second team and no Spartans? Pre-season rankings vary widely and mean little. (For example, DRob was on no lists last year, but ended the season as the offensive POY).

    5. The returning starters and experienced QB are the reason MSU will likely win about 7 games (the smart money in Vegas seems to agree with that prediction).

    So, your basis for thinking MSU will be a consistent winner seems to be their cinderella season.

    I am not saying things can't change, but a rational person shouldn't expect it.

    This post was edited by Peterklima on 8/29/2011 at 8:32 PM

    Peterklima

  • GMSparty12 said...

    You went from looking at this years team, to citing all these things that happened in the past.

    Skeptical of the OLine? I can see it. Think the LBs might be too inexperienced? In terms of starts, sure. Tough road schedule? Without a doubt.

    But saying "Well, I don't think MSU's recent history isn't great, so I think they'll be bad this year" isn't a sound argument.

    I don't think they'll be bad, just middle of the road in the B10.

    And, I am not basing it just on MSU's past, but Dantonio's too.

    Peterklima

  • Peterklima said...

    So, your basis for thinking MSU will be a consistent winner seems to be their cinderella season.

    I am not saying things can't change, but a rational person shouldn't expect it.

    So what are you basing your thinking on?

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    Snake Plissken

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