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The idea that everyone should go to college

  • maize&blue21 said...

    Pretty sure college has become a social thing for most and has put our country in debt because of kids taking out $60,000 loans and taking general studies for four years.

    Pretty much. Most people don't even consider cost when deciding whether to attend college, because they can just take out loans. That is a problem, A HUGE PROBLEM. It's the same concept with mortgages and car loans, just because get approved for a loan doesn't mean you can afford it. Half of high school graduates should strongly consider options outside of college.

    stoptothink

  • getmyjive11 said...

    One of the dumbest commercials I have seen questioned "what if all of our children went to college". It then described some kind of Utopian society where everyone was educated, well off and happiness reigned.

    What a load of BS.

    There is nothing wrong with a kid wanting to work in construction or on an assembly line. The problem with this country isn't that we lack kids with college degrees, it's that we don't push children to their strengths. Expecting a kid to get a liberal arts degree and "make something of themselves" is pure fantasy.

    So you say "push people to their strengths" and yet if their strength was English they should just abandon all hope?

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    sf2k4

  • sf2k4 said...

    So you say "push people to their strengths" and yet if their strength was English they should just abandon all hope?

    They certainly shouldn't go to a private university where tuition is $100K a year and expect to ever pay it off.

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    Clemson

  • sf2k4 said...

    So you say "push people to their strengths" and yet if their strength was English they should just abandon all hope?

    Unless they want to be an English teacher.

    You don't need a degree to read books. I think I read 3 books in my required English class in college, I've read dozens since. I have more classics on my Nook than is on the syllabus for an entire english major catalog.

    GPie

  • All the English majors I know either (a) want to go to law school (b) want to teach (c) want to write a novel or (d) some combination of the above. My one friend who is an English major is going to law school at Samford. They serve a number of purposes, no reason to get rid of them. I mean, should Alabama just get rid of every department under Art and Music?

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    sf2k4

  • At what point do you blame parenting to this discussion? While it's not uncommon for a young adult to know what they want to do for the rest of their lives but parents should take responsibilities and guide their kids. If either of my kids want to become a teacher, that's fine but they won't be going out of state or to a private school for their education.

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    Buck that

  • sf2k4 said...

    All the English majors I know either (a) want to go to law school (b) want to teach (c) want to write a novel or (d) some combination of the above. My one friend who is an English major is going to law school at Samford. They serve a number of purposes, no reason to get rid of them. I mean, should Alabama just get rid of every department under Art and Music?

    I'm glad you brought up law school, because it's a huge scam now as well. There's about one job position available each year for every 3 law school graduates. On top of that, attorney salaries are at an all time low. Couple that with rising high tuition costs, and you will be lucky to pay off your student loans when you are 60.

    This post was edited by Clemson on 7/6/2012 at 1:29 PM

    The Law School Bubble

    http://www.thebestcolleges.org/law_school_bubble/

    www.thebestcolleges.org
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    Clemson

  • Clemson said...

    I'm glad you brought up law school, because it's a huge scam now as well. There about one job position for about every 3 law school graduates. On top of that, attorney salaries are at an all time low coupled will all time high tuition costs.

    It's all cyclical. If everyone turns around and starts getting engineering degrees they too will see a similar employment drop. Doctors are about to see the same level of drop off as lawyers are but that wasn't the case when my father went to medical school.

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    sf2k4

  • sf2k4 said...

    . They serve a number of purposes, no reason to get rid of them. I mean, should Alabama just get rid of every department under Art and Music?

    Keep the degrees, just don't subsidize the loans for them with public money. Its a bad investment.

    But if a kid wants to pursue the degree with eyes wide open, knowing the poor ROI and knowing what he's getting into, then godspeed.

    GPie

  • sf2k4 said...

    All the English majors I know either (a) want to go to law school (b) want to teach (c) want to write a novel or (d) some combination of the above.

    Not exactly helping your argument there. Law school is a very risky financial endeavor right now, if you intend to teach go to a cheap school or good luck paying those loans, and good luck with making a living as a writer. We need English majors, but don't go to college blind of the financial ramifications of your decisions.

    stoptothink

  • GPie said...

    Keep the degrees, just don't subsidize the loans for them with public money. Its a bad investment.

    But if a kid wants to pursue the degree with eyes wide open, knowing the poor ROI and knowing what he's getting into, then godspeed.

    I'm all for that. I refuse to work the rest of my life in a job I hate. That too much time spent doing something that doesn't fulfill me. I don't want to hate my job. And I'm willing to take a pay cut to do what I love. No complaining or demands for hand outs from me. Plus, when I make it to Art Director and higher, I'll be getting paid, so...

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    sf2k4

  • stoptothink said...

    Not exactly helping your argument there. Law school is a very risky financial endeavor right now, if you intend to teach go to a cheap school or good luck paying those loans, and good luck with making a living as a writer. We need English majors, but don't go to college blind of the financial ramifications of your decisions.

    I'm not saying go in blind and expect financial help for a career that doesn't pay well. I'm just saying don't fault people for doing what makes them happy. Life's too short to work some job you hate.

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    sf2k4

  • sf2k4 said...

    So you say "push people to their strengths" and yet if their strength was English they should just abandon all hope?

    No, where did you get that? If their strength is English/Literature, they should be pushed to teach or be a journalist/reporter. If the kid's strength is working with his hands, he should be pushed towards tech school.

    It's a pretty simple concept... and it's done in Asia. I'm not sure why I had to spell it out for you.

    getmyjive11

  • getmyjive11 said...

    No, where did you get that? If their strength is English/Literature, they should be pushed to teach or be a journalist/reporter. If the kid's strength is working with his hands, he should be pushed towards tech school.

    It's a pretty simple concept... and it's done in Asia. I'm not sure why I had to spell it out for you.

    Because the way you worded it came off as such. No harm no foul.

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    sf2k4

  • sf2k4 said...

    It's all cyclical. If everyone turns around and starts getting engineering degrees they too will see a similar employment drop. Doctors are about to see the same level of drop off as lawyers are but that wasn't the case when my father went to medical school.

    That's my point. Why would anyone go to law school, when the market is so inflated right now?

    Everyone, my friends included, thinks they will go to law school for a few years, get out and immediately make 150K. That's not the case anymore and it probably won't be the case for a very long time.

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    Clemson

  • Clemson said...

    That's my point. Why would anyone go to law school, when the market is so inflated right now?

    Everyone, my friends included, thinks they will go to law school for a few years, get out and immediately make 150K. That's not the case anymore and it probably won't be the case for a very long time.

    If that's what they want to do and are prepared to handle te consequences, I say do what you feel makes you happy. I mean, is it worth it to go into engineering which pays if you hate it?

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    sf2k4

  • Let me clarify: I'm not saying that law school is the only thing that would make said example happy. All I'm saying is, don't do something you hate just because it pays well. We all want to be well off but you spend too much time working for you to not enjoy and take pride in it. But that's just my opinion.

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    sf2k4

  • sf2k4 said...

    Because the way you worded it came off as such. No harm no foul.

    Not at all. Not too many kids are going to make something of themselves with a Philosophy degree.

    My local paper had a story about a kid who graduated with Harvard with a high GPA and couldn't find a job. It was supposed to be about how tough it is to find a job these days. Before even reading the article I said, "this kid probably has a worthless history degree". Sure enough, he had a worthless history degree.

    I'm sorry, I just don't feel bad for those people. Too many are unrealistic.

    getmyjive11

  • Clemson said...

    That's my point. Why would anyone go to law school, when the market is so inflated right now?

    Everyone, my friends included, thinks they will go to law school for a few years, get out and immediately make 150K. That's not the case anymore and it probably won't be the case for a very long time.

    Still is the case for most of the top schools.

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    "The Michigan Man is certain he invented the Big Ten, along with intellect, cocktails and sex."

    Wendel Clark

  • getmyjive11 said...

    Not at all. Not too many kids are going to make something of themselves with a Philosophy degree.

    My local paper had a story about a kid who graduated with Harvard with a high GPA and couldn't find a job. It was supposed to be about how tough it is to find a job these days. Before even reading the article I said, "this kid probably has a worthless history degree". Sure enough, he had a worthless history degree.

    I'm sorry, I just don't feel bad for those people. Too many are unrealistic.

    My friend has a worthless Philosophy degree, he does pretty well as an investment banker.

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    "The Michigan Man is certain he invented the Big Ten, along with intellect, cocktails and sex."

    Wendel Clark

  • Wendel Clark said...

    Still is the case for most of the top schools.

    I would be willing to be that less than 5% of people that graduate from law school start out making $150k a year.

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    Clemson

  • Its all about who you know, really. "Its not the grades you make, but the hands you shake".

    I have the GI Bill waiting for me. I will be paid around $1400 per month to go to college and take any course of my choice. Me not in college shows you how little I think of college these days.

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    Team Targaryen

    MarineMountie

  • FSU Bear said...

    I only know one who is going to get hammered paying off student loans, but he went to med school so I think he'll recover (currently doing his radiologist residency in Spartanburg, SC). But I know there are tons and it's a shame that the idea has been drilled into their head.

    I and many of the people I were friends with at FSU were lucky enough to graduate with zero debt - Mostly because of Bright Futures Scholarships. I've been out of school since Spring of 2010 and still have never even applied for a credit card.

    I know here in Missouri, scholarships from the state have been drastically reduced. And at a D2, 12K student school like mine -- There aren't a whole lot of notable alumni shelling out cash for various department scholarships.

    I'm fortunate, but part of that is earned. I took a position as a Community Advisor (aka: RA) last year, and will return this year. Saves me more than 8K a year. I'll be graduating with about 40K in debt with my Bachelor's in Business Administration with a Marketing major.

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    BornToBeRed

  • MarineMountie said...

    Its all about who you know, really. "Its not the grades you make, but the hands you shake".

    I have the GI Bill waiting for me. I will be paid around $1400 per month to go to college and take any course of my choice. Me not in college shows you how little I think of college these days.

    GI bill will pay for much more than just a typical college. You can use it for all kinds of other training programs.

    faceman237

  • psubills62 said...

    Getting to the point where college isn't worth it, to be honest.

    I wouldn't go this far, but I think it says a lot that applying for a job with a degree has minimal meaning now. Unless you've had graduate study, you're likely one of dozens with a Bachelor's applying for a particular job.

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    BornToBeRed