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Trayvon Martin case

  • I'm sure everyone here has heard the uproar regarding Trayvon Martin case (if not, I linked a story to this post). I didn't see a thread about it, so I decided to make one.

    Obviously, this is a tragedy, but there is a "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida that states "says a citizen doesn’t have to retreat before using deadly force against an attacker," that could affect the outcome of the case. I linked the other article that goes into detail about it as well.

    What is everyone's opinion on this? Will/should George Zimmerman avoid murder charges because of the Stand Your Ground law?

    U.S. News - Trayvon Martin's final phone call: 'He said this man was watching him'

    A 17-year-old boy whose death has sparked national outrage fearfully

    usnews.msnbc.msn.com

    U.S. News - Florida 'Stand Your Ground' law could complicate Trayvon Martin teen shooting case

    Floridat have to retreat before using deadly force against an attacker, could throw a legal wrinkle into the case of a neighborhood watch captain who shot to death an unarmed black teenager.

    usnews.msnbc.msn.com
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    GONIG BUCK

  • GONIG BUCK said...

    I'm sure everyone here has heard the uproar regarding Trayvon Martin case (if not, I linked a story to this post). I didn't see a thread about it, so I decided to make one.

    Obviously, this is a tragedy, but there is a "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida that states "says a citizen doesn’t have to retreat before using deadly force against an attacker," that could affect the outcome of the case. I linked the other article that goes into detail about it as well.

    What is everyone's opinion on this? Will/should George Zimmerman avoid murder charges because of the Stand Your Ground law?

    Listening to the media I would say they need to fry this guy.

    I don't believe the media so I say let it play out in court.

    xxmgobluexx

  • Cold Blooded murderer, IMO. They have the phone records for proof that he didn't shoot in self defense, and that he was the one that caused the altercation in the first place by following Martin for no reason at all.

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    MarineMountie

  • Considering the evidence,this guy is censored.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • Cant pass any judgment without having been there, but the story certainly points to this Zimmerman dude as being seriously in the wrong.

    Fuzz

  • Going to be discussed on CBS' Nightly News after the commercial.

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    BornToBeRed

  • Also, to properly answer GB's question....i guess it all depends how they define "attacker"

    Doesnt seem like this guy should get off if that write up was accurate

    Fuzz

  • Zimmerman should be tried for murder in my opinion. He pursued the boy after 911 Dispatch told him that was unnecessary. He made the call to the police, his 'responsibility' was done there. Beyond that, he tried to play vigilante and ended up killing a young man who had done no harm to anyone.

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    BornToBeRed

  • If they truly have those phone records, there is no way he gets off. No possible way.

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    MarineMountie

  • An excerpt from the "Stand Your Ground article quotes a retired Boca Raton police chief as saying:

    "'My gut reaction was this was an accidental discharge,” Sweeting added. “If you put yourself in the shooter’s position and you’re wrestling with this kid and a gun goes off, what are you going to tell the cops?'"

    Right.

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    GONIG BUCK

  • GONIG BUCK said...

    An excerpt from the "Stand Your Ground article quotes a retired Boca Raton police chief as saying:

    "'My gut reaction was this was an accidental discharge,” Sweeting added. “If you put yourself in the shooter’s position and you’re wrestling with this kid and a gun goes off, what are you going to tell the cops?'"

    Right.

    Shouldn't have been in that situation to begin with. He called the cops(for no reason I might add). That is the only "job" he has as a neighborhood watchmen. That is IT. He followed him, he cornered him, he shot him dead. Bottom line. That is IF they truly have the phone records that they claim they have.

    This is murder. Either way, accidental discharge or whatever. Its murder because he followed, cornered, and held a gun to a defenseless kid.

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    MarineMountie

  • GONIG BUCK said...

    I'm sure everyone here has heard the uproar regarding Trayvon Martin case (if not, I linked a story to this post). I didn't see a thread about it, so I decided to make one.

    Obviously, this is a tragedy, but there is a "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida that states "says a citizen doesn’t have to retreat before using deadly force against an attacker," that could affect the outcome of the case. I linked the other article that goes into detail about it as well.

    What is everyone's opinion on this? Will/should George Zimmerman avoid murder charges because of the Stand Your Ground law?

    Martin was murdered because he was black, period. Zimmerman's racist/bitch ass needs his ass beat ten times over and then tried for murder. It's really that simple. Anything less in unacceptable.

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  • GONIG BUCK said...

    An excerpt from the "Stand Your Ground article quotes a retired Boca Raton police chief as saying:

    "'My gut reaction was this was an accidental discharge,” Sweeting added. “If you put yourself in the shooter’s position and you’re wrestling with this kid and a gun goes off, what are you going to tell the cops?'"

    Right.

    Either way the guy deserves to be in jail.

    Also, I'd like to add this as evidence against "Stand Your Ground"- the second part is about Martin and rehashes what is said in the first two articles, but the first part tells of a similar case where SYG is being applied.

    Trayvon Martin Case: Does Florida Law Protect Shooter? - Yahoo! News

    From Yahoo! News: In September 2010, Trevor Dooley stormed into a park near his home outside Tampa, angry because a teenager was skateboarding on the basketball court. Dooley was carrying a .32-caliber semiautomatic handgun in his pants, and it was visible to David James, 41, who was in the park with his 8-year-old daughter. James tried to disarm Dooley, who is now 71, and as the two men tussled on the ground, Dooley shot James in the chest, killing him. Prosecutors, not surprisingly, charged Dooley with manslaughter. ...

    news.yahoo.com

    TalHawkins112

  • As a disclaimer, I don't practice criminal law, so my experience in the arena comes solely from law school, the bar exam, and the occasional CLE class.

    With that in mind, everything about this case stinks. Self-defense requires the person claiming it to use reasonable force. In the case of deadly force (like this shooting) the individual must have reasonable fear of death or serious injury. I haven't seen anything that even suggests that Zimmerman was fearing either.

    Second, Zimmerman instigated the entire confrontation. And then escalated it to the point of deadly force. You certainly can't claim self-defense when you're the individual who instigated violence, especially deadly violence.

    It's complete BS that the DA hasn't charged him yet. If he wants to try and use the defense of self-defense when he's in court, so be it. But it makes no sense to actually avoid pressing charges in the beginning, especially when the evidence is so damning to begin with.

    Jumbo Shrimp

  • Jumbo Shrimp said...

    As a disclaimer, I don't practice criminal law, so my experience in the arena comes solely from law school, the bar exam, and the occasional CLE class.

    With that in mind, everything about this case stinks. Self-defense requires the person claiming it to use reasonable force. In the case of deadly force (like this shooting) the individual must have reasonable fear of death or serious injury. I haven't seen anything that even suggests that Zimmerman was fearing either.

    Second, Zimmerman instigated the entire confrontation. And then escalated it to the point of deadly force. You certainly can't claim self-defense when you're the individual who instigated violence, especially deadly violence.

    It's complete BS that the DA hasn't charged him yet. If he wants to try and use the defense of self-defense when he's in court, so be it. But it makes no sense to actually avoid pressing charges in the beginning, especially when the evidence is so damning to begin with.

    My question is, how do you prove someone has fear of death? That seems like a very subjective thing, and anyone can claim that at any time.

    Fuzz

  • Fuzz said...

    My question is, how do you prove someone has fear of death? That seems like a very subjective thing, and anyone can claim that at any time.

    Good question. The court will look at the circumstances to determine whether a reasonable person, in the same circumstances would have a fear of death. So it's a way to try and make something inherently subjective (fear of death) be as objective as possible (reasonable person standard).

    In this case, the facts (as we know them now, at least) seem stacked heavily against Zimmerman. He was the instigator, he was the only individual armed, Martin was apparently trying to flee from him, and he's much larger than Martin. So, if you pull a gun on someone who is trying to run away from you, is unarmed, and is much smaller than you, you're gonna have a hell of a time trying to prove that you reasonably feared for your life.

    Jumbo Shrimp

  • Jumbo Shrimp said...

    Good question. The court will look at the circumstances to determine whether a reasonable person, in the same circumstances would have a fear of death. So it's a way to try and make something inherently subjective (fear of death) be as objective as possible (reasonable person standard).

    In this case, the facts (as we know them now, at least) seem stacked heavily against Zimmerman. He was the instigator, he was the only individual armed, Martin was apparently trying to flee from him, and he's much larger than Martin. So, if you pull a gun on someone who is trying to run away from you, is unarmed, and is much smaller than you, you're gonna have a hell of a time trying to prove that you reasonably feared for your life.

    Wouldn't the definition of 'reasonable person' also be subjective?

    Sorry, I just like to try and pick apart the justice system

    Fuzz

  • Fuzz said...

    Wouldn't the definition of 'reasonable person' also be subjective?

    Sorry, I just like to try and pick apart the justice system

    It kind of is, yeah. But it's backed up by previous case law that the judges can reference to at least have a sort of uniform way of proceeding.

    Also, I just read the linked article above by TalHawkins regarding the "stand your ground" statute in Florida. I guess that kind of throws most of what I said out the window. It's a pretty surprising law to me, and I don't live in the most liberal of states (Nevada). I haven't heard of anything like that in any other jurisdiction, either.

    Jumbo Shrimp

  • killed an armless 140 pound kid. If this was a white girl that got murdered, he would have been hung by now.

    Maple_leaf

  • Kind of ashamed to live in Florida after reading about this law. Combined with the VERY relaxed rules on concealed weapons, pretty much means you get to kill anyone if you get into any type of heated argument. Dont get into a fistfight in Florida, your ass will get capped.

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    eastcoastghost

  • That law is insane. What is with these states trying to bring back the 1800's? Either way jail time or not this sucks, but Zimmerman can't fool his maker.

    Alonzo Harris

  • Maple_leaf said...

    killed an armless 140 pound kid. If this was a white girl that got murdered, he would have been hung by now.

    agreed...story takes on a different meaning when it's a white kid

    this guy should be put to death for his blatant disregard for human life in this case

    racial bastard who attacked a 14 year kid then shot him...most likely had intent to kill him from the minute he started following the kid

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    greensooner

  • Maple_leaf said...

    killed an armless 140 pound kid. If this was a white girl that got murdered, he would have been hung by now.

    One of my first thoughts was, "Imagine if it had been a white man who had killed Martin..."

    This would be the most publicized case of the year. Ugh.

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    BornToBeRed

  • BornToBeRed said...

    One of my first thoughts was, "Imagine if it had been a white man who had killed Martin..."

    This would be the most publicized case of the year. Ugh.

    Agreed. But my point is that the cops haven't done anything about it, and if the kid was white...it would have been a different story. I mean someone chased down a kid and shot him! My mind is blown, feel for the kid and his family. RIP

    Maple_leaf

  • Maple_leaf said...

    Agreed. But my point is that the cops haven't done anything about it, and if the kid was white...it would have been a different story. I mean someone chased down a kid and shot him! My mind is blown, feel for the kid and his family. RIP

    Pretty sure the same thing would be happening. Color doesn't matter, unless you want it to matter. This stupid law in Florida is just that... stupid. I still don't see how he gets off.

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    MarineMountie