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Voting rights

  • Would you be ok with a basic test of simple political understanding as a prerequisite for voting? It seems that we have so many people (on both ends of the spectrum) who don't actually know the issues or what they're voting for - they just vote along regional, racial, family or other lines that aren't based on policy. The test would have to be simple enough that anyone of reasonable intellect could prepare for it by reading up on some basic issues. With access to public libraries, access shouldn't be an issue (if you can get to the polls on Election Day, you can get to the library to read up on the topics if you don't have Internet access).

    I'm sure some people will be vehemently opposed, but I think this idea could do a world of good for our country. Voters who know the issues may still ignore what they read (or are told verbally in the event that they cannot read), but you could at least have an informed voting public and the results would be more valid IMO. This would be a program that would actually be very worthy of our tax dollars.

    FortWorthTide

  • Would never work or stand

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    panic1013

  • panic1013 said...

    Would never work or stand

    I can see why it wouldn't stand, but why wouldn't it work?

    FortWorthTide

  • No. It is their right to vote for whoever they want. They can base their votes on the things that you mentioned if they want. While I think its stupid to do that, it is their right to do so. Its what makes us Americas. The right to vote. Start taking away rights, where do you stop?

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    MarineMountie ●

  • MarineMountie said...

    No. It is their right to vote for whoever they want. They can base their votes on the things that you mentioned if they want. While I think its stupid to do that, it is their right to do so. Its what makes us Americas. The right to vote. Start taking away rights, where do you stop?

    Of course it's their right and I'm not proposing taking that away. They would still be entitled to make whatever choice they pleased based on whatever logic they choose. But we already have other requirements in order to vote such as citizenship, registering, etc.
    I don't see why it's too much of an infringement of rights to simply require people to educate themselves on the basic issues - they can still ignore it if they want.

    This post was edited by FortWorthTide on 3/4/2013 at 12:02 PM

    FortWorthTide

  • Because informed voters elect terrible candidates too.

    People voting along regional, family, racial lines is just a more specific way of saying people vote for what they perceive to be in their best interest. More educated voters will still vote for who/what they believe will enefit them the most.

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    panic1013

  • MarineMountie said...

    No. It is their right to vote for whoever they want. They can base their votes on the things that you mentioned if they want. While I think its stupid to do that, it is their right to do so. Its what makes us Americas. The right to vote. Start taking away rights, where do you stop?

    But that's absurd. It's letting everyone vote...just because. It is bad for the country, period. Uniformed people voting is just bad for the country...there is no way around that.

    TroyTide

  • FortWorthTide said...

    Of course it's their right and I'm not proposing taking that away. They would still be entitled to make whatever choice they pleased based on whatever logic they choose. But we already have other requirements in order to vote such as citizenship, registering, etc.
    I don't see why it's too much of an infringement of rights to simply require people to educate themselves on the basic issues - they can still ignore it if they want.

    If they would require people to pass a test in order to vote, it is no longer a right. Citizenship is a given. If you don't live here, why shouod you vote? Anyone can register to vote, so that also doesn't infringe on the right to vote.

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    MarineMountie ●

  • panic1013 said...

    Because informed voters elect terrible candidates too.

    People voting along regional, family, racial lines is just a more specific way of saying people vote for what they perceive to be in their best interest. More educated voters will still vote for who/what they believe will enefit them the most.

    Agree completely. But what's wrong with requiring someone to know what a tax actually is and how it will affect them and others before they vote for or against one (just an example on the local level).

    FortWorthTide

  • FortWorthTide said...

    I don't see why it's too much of an infringement of rights to simply require people to educate themselves on the basic issues - they can still ignore it if they want.

    This doesn't make sense.

    Im all for requiring voter identification though

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    panic1013

  • MarineMountie said...

    If they would require people to pass a test in order to vote, it is no longer a right. Citizenship is a given. If you don't live here, why shouod you vote? Anyone can register to vote, so that also doesn't infringe on the right to vote.

    Those who aren't born here have to pass tests to earn their citizenship and no one has a problem with that. Why can't we expect the same of voters? And I'm talking a VERY simple test - not even Political Science 101 level.

    FortWorthTide

  • Require every school in America to have their kids pass a civics class (pretty sure most do anyways). Throw in a personal finance/money management class while they're at it.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Require every school in America to have their kids pass a civics class (pretty sure most do anyways). Throw in a personal finance/money management class while they're at it.

    I'd be fine with that approach. How do you handle dropouts who are 18 though? Also, I honestly don't know the answer to this question, but can someone with Downs Syndrome vote? If so, how do you handle that?

    FortWorthTide

  • FortWorthTide said...

    Those who aren't born here have to pass tests to earn their citizenship and no one has a problem with that. Why can't we expect the same of voters? And I'm talking a VERY simple test - not even Political Science 101 level.

    How simple is "simple"? Give me a couple sample questions.

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    CMXI

  • FortWorthTide said...

    Agree completely. But what's wrong with requiring someone to know what a tax actually is and how it will affect them and others before they vote for or against one (just an example on the local level).

    I agree in principle, but in practice it's not realistic. Representative democracies are built upon the average citizen not having to be informed. They elect people they think know better than them.

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    panic1013

  • MarineMountie said...

    If they would require people to pass a test in order to vote, it is no longer a right. Citizenship is a given. If you don't live here, why shouod you vote? Anyone can register to vote, so that also doesn't infringe on the right to vote.

    What about felons? We don't let them vote because we don't want their type making decisions that could effect the rest of us. Why not the same for ignorant people? I mean if someone doesn't know who the VP is, or what is or isn't in the Constitution, or what separates it from the Dec. of Independence, or basic economics...is that someone we really want making decisions?

    TroyTide

  • CMXI said...

    How simple is "simple"? Give me a couple sample questions.

    That's tough - it would require a lot of hard work and tweaking before getting to a fair end result, but off the top of my head...

    "How many branches of government are there and what are they called" (you could even make it multiple choice)

    "Which branch passes laws?"

    "What is a veto?"

    "What is an income tax / how do tax brackets work?" (This one would take some work and would definitely have to be multiple choice)

    Some of those might sound awful to me in an hour, but you put me on the spot.

    FortWorthTide

  • FortWorthTide said...

    I'd be fine with that approach. How do you handle dropouts who are 18 though? Also, I honestly don't know the answer to this question, but can someone with Downs Syndrome vote? If so, how do you handle that?

    Make it in middle school and then high school again (a more detailed version).

    I mean I think we can have speial cases for the mentally handicapped.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Make it in middle school and then high school again (a more detailed version).

    I mean I think we can have speial cases for the mentally handicapped.

    Yeah, as in they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

    TroyTide

  • BamaLivesFootba said...

    Make it in middle school and then high school again (a more detailed version).

    I mean I think we can have speial cases for the mentally handicapped.

    I think that would be a good approach. You'd have to be sure that the courses were of good quality and you couldn't advance without passing them, but that's an education system issue that goes beyond this topic. The only thing that concerns me about the in school approach is how that impacts the 60 year old for whom high school was decades ago and issues have changed significantly since that time.

    FortWorthTide

  • FortWorthTide said...

    I think that would be a good approach. You'd have to be sure that the courses were of good quality and you couldn't advance without passing them, but that's an education system issue that goes beyond this topic. The only thing that concerns me about the in school approach is how that impacts the 60 year old for whom high school was decades ago and issues have changed significantly since that time.

    Provide the course to everyone else retroactively? shrug

    You said simple. I imagine it would be hard to eff that up. My sixth grade civics class was pretty comprehensive and that was at a public school in Alabama.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • Hell. Lets kill two birds with one stone. Tax every dollar spent on political campaigns (especially PAC money) a few pennies and give the money to schools to make sure the classes are there and comprehensive or for the retroactive tests.

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    "A political call, the fall guy accord...We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train..."

    BamaLivesFootba

  • Side note:

    some news was on at the gym yesterday with Biden speaking in Selma celebrating the civil rights movement.

    Right afterwards some woman was on there talking about how it's been 50 years and they're still fighting for equal rights (I think specifically voting rights).

    Wtf was she talking about?

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    panic1013

  • FortWorthTide said...

    That's tough - it would require a lot of hard work and tweaking before getting to a fair end result, but off the top of my head...

    "How many branches of government are there and what are they called" (you could even make it multiple choice)

    "Which branch passes laws?"

    "What is a veto?"

    "What is an income tax / how do tax brackets work?" (This one would take some work and would definitely have to be multiple choice)

    Some of those might sound awful to me in an hour, but you put me on the spot.

    Are you assuming these would be multiple choice?

    The problem I have with these tests is threefold: 1) They're getting dangerously close to straight literacy tests, 2) none of the questions I can think of really test political understanding, because once you get into any analysis, you start having to accept subjective, viewpoint-based answers, and 3) this does discriminate against the less intelligent/mentally disabled.

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    CMXI

  • panic1013 said...

    Side note:

    some news was on at the gym yesterday with Biden speaking in Selma celebrating the civil rights movement.

    Right afterwards some woman was on there talking about how it's been 50 years and they're still fighting for equal rights (I think specifically voting rights).

    Wtf was she talking about?

    It's the illusory fight the have. There really is no end to it apparently, no matter what we do, no matter how far we come, we will always be racist.

    TroyTide

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