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Watching the Food Network, and I want to know...

  • ... is eating at a restaurant about the customer's desires or the chef's expertise?

    I've wondered this for years actually. On the one hand, I'm about to go out and spend money for food. I'm probably wanting something particular and, being human, like it done a certain way. Especially if I'm going to go out somewhere nice and expensive, I want to get my money's worth. A big reason I like to cook myself.

    On the other hand, here's someone who paid (a lot) of money to go learn the art of cooking, because it is an art. Especially the guys and gals at these top-flight establishments. They know more about the history of garlic than I ever would care to know and can name every spice in existence simply by texture, not to mention smell and taste. They came to school to learn and perfect their craft so that they can take their patrons on a culinary adventure with every bite.

    So, what's more important? Giving the customer what THEY want and how THEY want it? Or is it about letting the chef do what they do best (and presumably better than you) because you're paying to have an expert do this for you, much in the same way you get a hair cut or get your car fixed or whatever (again, many people do those things themselves). Is it a bit of both? Does it depend on the "scale-ness" of the establishment?

    Discuss.

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    sf2k4

  • Every restaurant I have worked at our motto has been that the customer is always right when they are dicks. I have seen customers send back food for the smallest things Like the food is not seasoned right or their steak is a little bit overcooked.

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    duvalnole

  • duvalnole said...

    Every restaurant I have worked at our motto has been that the customer is always right when they are dicks. I have seen customers send back food for the smallest things Like the food is not seasoned right or their steak is a little bit overcooked.

    See, that's how I've always viewed it just because... that's how it's always been described to me. However, I have a hard time believing some guy went to culinary school just to overcook steaks to go with ketchup for some whiny little kid. I guess it's really not any different from what I do (graphic design) because my artwork is at the whim of a client. I guess it's different when I compare the two to, say, a painter or a musician. If you go to a symphony play they don't play Mozart the way YOU want to hear it, they play it the way it's supposed to be done.

    Maybe I'm overthinking this.

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    sf2k4

  • sf2k4 said...

    ... is eating at a restaurant about the customer's desires or the chef's expertise?

    I've wondered this for years actually. On the one hand, I'm about to go out and spend money for food. I'm probably wanting something particular and, being human, like it done a certain way. Especially if I'm going to go out somewhere nice and expensive, I want to get my money's worth. A big reason I like to cook myself.

    On the other hand, here's someone who paid (a lot) of money to go learn the art of cooking, because it is an art. Especially the guys and gals at these top-flight establishments. They know more about the history of garlic than I ever would care to know and can name every spice in existence simply by texture, not to mention smell and taste. They came to school to learn and perfect their craft so that they can take their patrons on a culinary adventure with every bite.

    So, what's more important? Giving the customer what THEY want and how THEY want it? Or is it about letting the chef do what they do best (and presumably better than you) because you're paying to have an expert do this for you, much in the same way you get a hair cut or get your car fixed or whatever (again, many people do those things themselves). Is it a bit of both? Does it depend on the "scale-ness" of the establishment?

    Discuss.

    The "scale-ness" .. so to speak does matter IMO..

    Chefs at high end restaurants do NOT like to have their dishes altered in anyway. Most consider it an "insult" to the chef if you ask for something left off your dish for anything other than an allergy.

    The lower you go down the chain so to speak again.. The less how picky you might be matters.

    Volume restaurants will do almost anything to keep their customers happy.

    This post was edited by weGO on 5/2/2012 at 1:49 AM

    "Get in where you fit in." Life is, Too Short TL;DR

    weGO

  • I guess the customer is always right, but I feel if you got a top quality restaurant you should eat the food how its meant to be eaten. Going to a great steak place and getting a well done steak and eating it with ketchup is just dumb, you can go anywhere and get that.

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    MZizzle2

  • weGOweGOWDE said...

    The "scale-ness" .. so to speak does matter IMO..

    Chefs at high end restaurants do NOT like to have their dishes altered in anyway. Most consider it an "insult" to the chef if you ask for something left off your dish for anything other than an allergy.

    The lower you go down the chain so to speak again.. The less how picky you might be matters.

    Volume restaurants will do almost anything to keep their customers happy.

    A chef who has worked their way into such a position has earned that right.

    Someone at Outback does not. I'm not intending to be disrespectful, but it's the way I feel about the situation. If I'm at Outback (which isn't a place I'm a fan of, it was just what came to mind as a big time chain)

    That said, if a person is stupid enough to put freaking ketchup on a porterhouse then they are stupid enough to be smacked in the face with said porterhouse and escorted out the door, I don't care what scale establishment you are in at the moment. If you want to be a dumb f'er then stay your tail at home and make it yourself.

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    MsnBama

  • To answer this question you have to decided as a restuarant what your goal is.
    if your number one goal is to run a money making business first, then you better cater to the customer regardless of their douchebaggery. Hence the popularity of the chain restaurant.

    If your goal to to express yourself through your cooking and show the ability of your craft then you have the right to say no to a customer. If you actually are good at what you do, people will show up to eat your dishes.

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    scottydoesnknow

  • MsnBama said...

    A chef who has worked their way into such a position has earned that right.

    Someone at Outback does not. I'm not intending to be disrespectful, but it's the way I feel about the situation. If I'm at Outback (which isn't a place I'm a fan of, it was just what came to mind as a big time chain)

    That said, if a person is stupid enough to put freaking ketchup on a porterhouse then they are stupid enough to be smacked in the face with said porterhouse and escorted out the door, I don't care what scale establishment you are in at the moment. If you want to be a dumb f'er then stay your tail at home and make it yourself.

    ^^^This. Ketchup and steak should not go together. Face smack is gonna happen if I'm a chef and I see someone putting ketchup on my steak. A great steak needs no sauce of any kind on it. That's what spices are for.

    IDWIW

  • ScarletnCream said...

    ^^^This. Ketchup and steak should not go together. Face smack is gonna happen if I'm a chef and I see someone putting ketchup on my steak. A great steak needs no sauce of any kind on it. That's what spices are for.

    i love steak sauce. no homo.

    gators92487

  • gators92487 said...

    i love steak sauce. no homo.

    Me too, but I will not use it if the steak is spiced right. What is your sauce of choice?

    IDWIW

  • I too am a fan of A1 steak sauce, but I always try the steak first, if well seasoned, I forgo the sauce...

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    PSUTE

  • Chefs are like NFL players. They are there for your enjoyment, but you're watching them (eating at their restaurant) because they're the best - and they know it.

    This post was edited by Due51 on 5/2/2012 at 7:26 AM

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    MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13

    Due51

  • If you are paying good money for a meal, order it how you want. If you the customer doesn't enjoy the meal, the restaurant has failed its most basic function. The annoying part is when a customer sends something back but the restaurant did nothing wrong, you the customer didn't read the description and doesn't like an ingredient. Restaurants have slim profit margins, so if you send your food back that restaurant is now working for you for free-and unless its effed up pretty good they shouldn't be working for free. I have run restaurants for years. We have no issues making the food however you'd like, the frustrating part is when the food is made properly and the customer still complains.

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    Sir Mix A Lot

  • In the end it's all about how you want it and how you enjoy it. Top chef's will make it how they THINK it should be eaten, but if you don't like it that way, you wont eat it.

    Like steaks. Some say they should be a little pink and shouldn't need sauce. But who are we to tell you how you eat it.

    ButchCassidy

  • Its about casing the joint so that you can come back and rob it later in the week.

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    Not guilty y'all got to feel me

    eastcoastghost

  • FL Buckeye said...

    If you are paying good money for a meal, order it how you want. If you the customer doesn't enjoy the meal, the restaurant has failed its most basic function. The annoying part is when a customer sends something back but the restaurant did nothing wrong, you the customer didn't read the description and doesn't like an ingredient. Restaurants have slim profit margins, so if you send your food back that restaurant is now working for you for free-and unless its effed up pretty good they shouldn't be working for free. I have run restaurants for years. We have no issues making the food however you'd like, the frustrating part is when the food is made properly and the customer still complains.

    I hate customers who send stuff back to the kitchen or throw away food if they did read the description.

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    duvalnole

  • It depends on the restaurant. If you go to Le Bernandin, you don't send back the roasted white fish for lacking salt. If you go to Applebee's, you can send back the steak for being undercooked. Certain restaurants, in my opinion, carry the esteem and weight in the culinary world, that you take what you get with only a VERY few exceptions. I can't outcook Michael Symon or Wylie Dufresne or Jimmy Bradley or Tracy Des Jardiene. If it's not the way I like it, it's on me and not the chef barring something extremely rare like spoiled food.

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    Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic and so am I.

    jshusc

  • Quite frankly, most high end restaurants aren't meant for everybody to eat at. I'm not trying to sound privileged, and I'm not by any means, but I don't think the average american should eat at restaurants like Per Se or Momofuku or Le Bernandin or Barbuto or Jardienere or any of the other top restaurants in America. My wife and I will save money for 6 or 7 months to go to NYC solely to eat at some of these places and when we do, we understand we are getting something we can't do ourselves. Because of that, we put ourselves in the Chef's hands. Dining in these restaurants is more about the experience than the basic taste of your dish.

    That said, there is a difference b/t sending steak back for being over/under cooked and sending a fish course or pasta course or something else back b/c of seasoning. Cooking a steak is somewhat elementary and you should expect to receive what you asked for.

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    Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic and so am I.

    jshusc

  • jshusc said...

    Quite frankly, most high end restaurants aren't meant for everybody to eat at. I'm not trying to sound privileged, and I'm not by any means, but I don't think the average american should eat at restaurants like Per Se or Momofuku or Le Bernandin or Barbuto or Jardienere or any of the other top restaurants in America. My wife and I will save money for 6 or 7 months to go to NYC solely to eat at some of these places and when we do, we understand we are getting something we can't do ourselves. Because of that, we put ourselves in the Chef's hands. Dining in these restaurants is more about the experience than the basic taste of your dish.

    That said, there is a difference b/t sending steak back for being over/under cooked and sending a fish course or pasta course or something else back b/c of seasoning. Cooking a steak is somewhat elementary and you should expect to receive what you asked for.

    If I save money to eat at those places then the food is more important than the experience. If my food aint right and it wasnt my fault then i'm saying something

    IDWIW

  • ScarletnCream said...

    If I save money to eat at those places then the food is more important than the experience. If my food aint right and it wasnt my fault then i'm saying something

    The question is, though, are you qualified to determine if the food is "right"? My guess, no offense, is no...just like me and 99% of America. As I said, if you order a steak medium rare and it comes back well done, that is one thing. But if you find the pontchartrain sauce to be too salty or the bechamel is too thick, that's your problem. These menus take months and months to prepare and perfect, and if you simply don't like a dish, that's your problem.

    Perfect example: At WD-50, we ordered the chef's tasting menu, which included as the 6th course, Chef Dufresne's interesting take on the "boiled egg" which was basically a foie gras shell that, when punctured, spilled out passion fruit yolk. It was amazing to see and terrible to eat. I don't like passion fruit. That's on me.

    Another sort of pet peeve I have however is someone who goes to one of these restaurants (excluding a steakhouse a la peter lugers, etc.) and orders a steak. We all have easy access to good cuts of steak, and with some charcoal, olive oil, salt and pepper, are perfectly capable of cooking a damn good steak without dropping 70 bucks. But, that's just me...

    This post was edited by jshusc on 5/2/2012 at 10:08 AM

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    Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic and so am I.

    jshusc

  • jshusc said...

    The question is, though, are you qualified to determine if the food is "right"? My guess, no offense, is no...just like me and 99% of America. As I said, if you order a steak medium rare and it comes back well done, that is one thing. But if you find the pontchartrain sauce to be too salty or the bechamel is too thick, that's your problem. These menus take months and months to prepare and perfect, and if you simply don't like a dish, that's your problem.

    Perfect example: At WD-50, we ordered the chef's tasting menu, which included as the 6th course, Chef Dufresne's interesting take on the "boiled egg" which was basically a foie gras shell that, when punctured, spilled out passion fruit yolk. It was amazing to see and terrible to eat. I don't like passion fruit. That's on me.

    Another sort of pet peeve I have however is someone who goes to one of these restaurants (excluding a steakhouse a la peter lugers, etc.) and orders a steak. We all have easy access to good cuts of steak, and with some charcoal, olive oil, salt and pepper, are perfectly capable of cooking a damn good steak without dropping 70 bucks. But, that's just me...

    Good points.

    If you order something your haven't tried at a restaurant, you might not like it. That happens, and you know next time not to order that. Last year I tried Wood baked lump crap with morels and truffle sauce. Hell, stuff turned out so good I would have pushed my grandma down a flight of stairs to get another helping.

    Agree about the steak, I am completely happy with the cut I can buy and grill myself. A little olive oil, and a little montreal steak grill. Then medium rare, and don't nothing go on top of that damn thing. If I'm over at one of you guys house this summer and you're grilling steak, and I ask for some A-1 sauce, it means you completely f'd up my steak.

    VTSmitty

  • MsnBama said...

    A chef who has worked their way into such a position has earned that right.

    Someone at Outback does not. I'm not intending to be disrespectful, but it's the way I feel about the situation. If I'm at Outback (which isn't a place I'm a fan of, it was just what came to mind as a big time chain)

    That said, if a person is stupid enough to put freaking ketchup on a porterhouse then they are stupid enough to be smacked in the face with said porterhouse and escorted out the door, I don't care what scale establishment you are in at the moment. If you want to be a dumb f'er then stay your tail at home and make it yourself.

    I agree with everything you just posted..

    Guess i was endorsing the chef's right so to speak when I made my post.

    "Get in where you fit in." Life is, Too Short TL;DR

    weGO

  • I don't really have anything to offer this thread that hasn't been spoken already.

    I just don't understand why people go to restaurants that have universally known chefs, or at least known by people that like good food, and won't let said Chef do what made him famous or rated highly. I went to a Mario Batali restaurant with my wife about three years ago and she ordered a pasta with seasfood in it. She proceeded to ask the server if she could please get some parmesan cheese to put on the pasta. I didn't flip out on her or anything but I was honestly embarassed. I told her that I'm sure if Batali wanted cheese in his seafood pasta that he would have put it in there. I then told the server not to worry about it and we would take the food however Batali recommended it.

    As far as steaks go, I never ever order one at a restaurant. I can drive a mile and a half and get a 1.5 inch T-Bone (my personal favorite cut) and cook it in my green egg just the way I like it. The steak might cost 25 dollars for the cut and I don't have to tip and know exactly what kind of seasonings I like on it and how I like it cooked. Still don't know how anyone eats a steak anything but medium rare but again that's just me.

    When it comes to sauces on steak I somewhat disagree. I don't use ketchup (sacrilegious) or steak sauce but a good red wine reduction is pretty damn good on them as long as you don't drown the steak with it and use it as a compliment.

    This post was edited by RATT on 5/2/2012 at 3:45 PM

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    RATT

  • Seems like there is a correlation between the cost of the restaurant and the level of substitutions. If I go to a 4-5 star restaurant, I am trusting in the chefs abilities. I should not need to put salt on the food. At burger king, I can have it my way.

    This post was edited by DostaDawg on 5/2/2012 at 3:26 PM

    DostaDawg

  • RATT said...

    I don't really have anything to offer this thread that hasn't been spoken already.

    I just don't understand why people go to restaurants that have universally known, or at least known by people that like good food, and won't let said Chef do what made him famous or rated highly. I went to a Mario Batali restaurant with my wife about three years ago and she ordered a pasta with seasfood in it. She proceeded to ask the server if she could please get some parmesan cheese to put on the pasta. I didn't flip out on her or anything but I was honestly embarassed. I told her that I'm sure if Batali wanted cheese in his seafood pasta that he would have put it in there. I then told the server not to worry about it and we would take the food however Batali recommended it.

    As far as steaks go, I never ever order one at a restaurant. I can drive a mile and a half and get a 1.5 inch T-Bone (my personal favorite cut) and cook it in my green egg just the way I like it. The steak might cost 25 dollars for the cut and I don't have to tip and know exactly what kind of seasonings I like on it and how I like it cooked. Still don't know how anyone eats a steak anything but medium rare but again that's just me.

    When it comes to sauces on steak I somewhat disagree. I don't use ketchup (sacrilegious) or steak sauce but a good red wine reduction is pretty damn good on them as long as you don't drown the steak with it and use it as a compliment.

    Well said on the steaks sir. I agree with everything you said including the t-bone.

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    Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic and so am I.

    jshusc