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What Penn State football is really all about

  • joetheogre said...

    The NCAA is a voluntary association and thus can do whatever the hell they want to. The member institutions and board gave Emmert this power for only this situation.

    You are free to leave at any time if you want to. Go NAIA and knock yourself out.

    And you don't think that this will be appealed? There is still due process in the contract. Contract violations and violations of a collective bargaining agreement can be appealed in court or arbitration... Not giving Penn State the opportunity to go through due process can be tried and will be tried in court. If the President of PSU did not have any role in these sanctions, it violates due process. For those that do not use logic, Joe Schad recently reported the same on ESPN, so it must be true.

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    WE ARE! And we will always be...

    rmj147

  • rmj147 said...

    Could it help reduce it? What purpose does shutting down the football program serve. If you just step back and think for a second. It is the biggest money maker on campus. We are getting federal funding cut for Cleary Act violations, we are getting civil suits and may lose more than 200 million. Now you want to cripple the biggest money maker and punish the actual school, when they have fired the individuals solely responsible, and they will all be in jail soon? The criminal penal system is just that. It punishes crimes. The NCAA is punishing financially on top of GOVERNMENT AGENCIES and actual LEGAL REMEDIES FOR THE ACTUAL VICTIMS... Where they have NO JURISDICTION to do so. Over-step their boundaries and pile on to basically cripple the school as a whole. You act like what the Feds are going to do and what the survivors will get from civil suits is not enough? It will be the biggest pay out a school has ever done, and federal funding will be cut to a STATE SCHOOL. That is very significant. What the NCAA is doing in NO way helps the actual victims, future victims of child abuse elsewhere, or current students of the school or faculty/staff/teachers that had nothing to do with any of this. It is excessive and fueled by public opinion. The school will be punished. The NCAA has no grounds and has no business in criminal matters. They can't even get right what they are charged to do- regulate competitive balance and collegiate sports. Now they want to play police, judge and jury? All the while not even conducting their own investigation. Lazy, power-hungry, and short sighted. Do you think the survivors will actually want to punish Penn State students when the totality of all these sanctions taken together (feds/Cleary Act, Victim civil trial damages, and NCAA sanctions) increase tuition, decrease enrollment and shut down satellite campuses? Do you think this in any way benefits any current of future victims of child abuse? Or do you think that playing in a major bowl and dedicating 25-30 percent of the millions of dollars would be a bigger help? Seriously think about it for a second.

    Believe what you want to, but no one else will share in it. I see the cult is still very strong.

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    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre

  • rmj147 said...

    And you don't think that this will be appealed? There is still due process in the contract. Contract violations and violations of a collective bargaining agreement can be appealed in court or arbitration... Not giving Penn State the opportunity to go through due process can be tried and will be tried in court. If the President of PSU did not have any role in these sanctions, it violates due process. For those that do not use logic, Joe Schad recently reported the same on ESPN, so it must be true.

    Good luck with that. You will only piss off more of the public in general.

    I don't think I can stress enough how little most Americans want to hear excuse making. It's would be the equivalent of hearing James Holmes mother talk about what a sweet boy he was. No one wants to hear that shit

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    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre

  • chasfcd11 said...

    I'm not a lawyer, so I hope you don't expect me to answer your question. Google Michael Buckner's statement on possible NCAA sanctions for PSU and it comes up. It's a well thought-out legal analysis of the situation written by a sports lawyer. It basically says that Emmert may be making a big mistake. If you don't want to read it, so be it, but you can't really object to what I say since I did read it and I am now informed! tongue

    No no no. You know the American public doesn't like to do independent research or read on their own. It wasn't on CNN, Fox News, CBS, NBC or ESPN... How can they find it... I'll post it for them and make it easy. We all know how lazy mobs are.

    "According to ESPN and other media organizations, NCAA president Mark Emmert has elected to issue sanctions on Monday (July 23, 2012) against Pennsylvania State University, including a loss of scholarships and a multiple-year bowl ban. If the media reports are true, then the NCAA has charted an unprecedented, and perhaps unconstitutional, course of action. Federal and state courts have consistently held that membership organizations, including athletics associations like the NCAA, are required to provide procedures that protect their members against arbitrary and irrational action. Thus, an NCAA rule or decision cannot be applied unreasonably so that it creates different classes of schools. Accordingly, any NCAA sanction against Penn State at this stage may potentially violate federal and state notions of due and fair process for several reasons, including, but not limited to:

    The conduct of Penn State and its employees, no matter how egregious, is not a violation of an existing NCAA rule. In fact, according to available information, the NCAA has never interpreted, or issued sanctions under, existing rules to address only criminal violations (or the cover-up of criminal violations). Further, the NCAA has chosen to make criminal activity an NCAA rules-violation in limited circumstances (i.e., Bylaw 10.2 (Knowledge of Use of Banned Drugs) and Bylaw 31.2.3.4 (Banned Drugs))—and the activities described in the report by former FBI director Louis J. Freeh are not addressed in the NCAA Division I Manual.
    The NCAA did not establish and publish a process and procedure to address the issues relevant in Penn State’s case. Instead, the NCAA is utilizing an ad-hoc process that has not been explained fully to the membership or the public.
    The NCAA is not adhering to its existing enforcement processes and procedures.
    The NCAA is treating Penn State differently than other schools that were involved in sexual assault scandals or other serious criminal misconduct.
    The NCAA failed to provide Penn State: (a) a written notice of allegations; (b) an opportunity to respond to the notice of allegations; (c) a hearing before an NCAA infractions committee to address the allegations; and (d) a process for an appeal of NCAA findings and sanctions.
    As legal counsel for colleges and universities before NCAA committees, we are extremely concerned about the possible NCAA actions and urge the organization to comply with its existing processes and procedures to address the Penn State sexual abuse scandal. In addition, based on our review of the Freeh report, the issues facing Penn State are best left in the expert hands of the criminal and civil courts, the federal Departments of Justice and Education, the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the relevant accrediting agencies."

    The Michael L. Buckner Law Firm will issue a comprehensive statement on its blog (http://michaelbucknerlaw.wordpress.com/) after the NCAA announces the Penn State penalties.

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    rmj147

  • joetheogre said...

    Good luck with that. You will only piss off more of the public in general.

    I don't think I can stress enough how little most Americans want to hear excuse making. It's would be the equivalent of hearing James Holmes mother talk about what a sweet boy he was. No one wants to hear that shit

    Yes, because that's what due process is for. To appease the public... Because the public uses logic. Due process is not negotiable. It is one of the most basic forms of human rights in this country. Amazing some people just are ready to do away with it so freely. Just like the Patriot Act. Or SOPA. Knee jerk reactions that the public pays for. Just wait until another school has a crime on it's campus that the NCAA wants to police. I'm sure that the states won't like that.

    This post was edited by rmj147 on 7/23/2012 at 12:55 AM

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    rmj147

  • rmj147 said...

    Yes, because that's what due process is for. To appease the public... Because the public uses logic.

    I don't give a shit about due process.

    No one wants to hear this shit. Just STFU and deal with this. Your school is a blight on college athletics. The more your protest the less people will respect your school.

    The NCAA is going to announce crippling sanctions. They will not be overturned. Penn State is going to lose a lot of prestige. Deal with it.

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    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre

  • joetheogre said...

    I don't give a shit about due process.

    Wow. Just wow... You sound very intelligent. Basic human rights, nah.

    And we are a blight on college athletics for the actions of 5 people. Wow...

    This post was edited by rmj147 on 7/23/2012 at 12:56 AM

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    WE ARE! And we will always be...

    rmj147

  • joetheogre said...

    I don't give a shit about due process.

    No one wants to hear this shit. Just STFU and deal with this. Your school is a blight on college athletics. The more your protest the less people will respect your school.

    The NCAA is going to announce crippling sanctions. They will not be overturned. Penn State is going to lose a lot of prestige. Deal with it.

    Deal with it why? The NCAA is overreaching. We should be dealt with by the feds and the courts. And we will. The whole "oh, you aren't punished until the NCAA does something" lacks perspective. It really does.

    You are getting mad for us saying that we did not have due process and that we didn't break any NCAA bylaws. What we are saying isn't wrong.

    getmyjive11

  • Hey loon,

    Your school(the leaders of the SCHOOL) harbored a pedophile for over a decade. Do u not see how fucked that is? Think about it for a second. Don't dare say it was just 5 people. It was 5 people that were in control at your university, IN CONTROL AT YOUR UNIVERSITY AND THEY HELPED A PEDOPHILE CONTINUE TO BE A PEDOPHILE. You are a sick individual defending this shit.

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    LaBornNRaised

  • rmj147 said...

    I don't care. They can't take this away from us. We are a great school. WE ARE

    we are marshall?

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    GoingLightBarny

  • LaBornNRaised said...

    Hey loon,

    Your school(the leaders of the SCHOOL) harbored a pedophile for over a decade. Do u not see how fucked that is? Think about it for a second. Don't dare say it was just 5 people. It was 5 people that were in control at your university, IN CONTROL AT YOUR UNIVERSITY AND THEY HELPED A PEDOPHILE CONTINUE TO BE A PEDOPHILE. You are a sick individual defending this shit.

    And they are all gone. And it was a criminal act. And it did not break any NCAA regulations. And we did not have due process.

    Dispute any of those.

    getmyjive11

  • joetheogre said...

    I don't give a shit about due process.

    No one wants to hear this shit. Just STFU and deal with this. Your school is a blight on college athletics. The more your protest the less people will respect your school.

    The NCAA is going to announce crippling sanctions. They will not be overturned. Penn State is going to lose a lot of prestige. Deal with it.

    The more people try to blame the alums, students, faculty, staff member and basically the university as a whole the less I respect them. I have lost so much respect for the posters of tBB and college football fans as a whole.

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    WillyWolverine

  • If only enabling and protecting a child rapist was prohibited in the NCAA rulebook.

    None of this would have happened.

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    devidee

  • lurk

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    Butch Jones. Who???

    Resurgent Vol

  • WillyWolverine said...

    The more people try to blame the alums, students, faculty, staff member and basically the university as a whole the less I respect them. I have lost so much respect for the posters of tBB and college football fans as a whole.

    i really don't get this one.

    so, because people on tBB think the alums, and fans are creepy for standing up for a man that knew about a situation and did virtually nothing to stop it... well, you see, right?

    and the staff, well, you do understand that the staff that was in place at the time basically just all handed off the responsibility of the issue to someone else...

    ha ha ha ha... i guess the sensibilities of the masses do not agree with your higher ethical stance.

    is your stance some new form of relativism that i have not seen yet?

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    GoingLightBarny

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    i really don't get this one.

    so, because people on tBB think the alums, and fans are creepy for standing up for a man that knew about a situation and did virtually nothing to stop it... well, you see, right?

    and the staff, well, you do understand that the staff that was in place at the time basically just all handed off the responsibility of the issue to someone else...

    ha ha ha ha... i guess the sensibilities of the masses do not agree with your higher ethical stance.

    is your stance some new form of relativism that i have not seen yet?

    Well I don't believe all alums and fans are standing up for the people who covered this up. I believe most understand how horrible this is. By staff I was referring to the ones not involved in the cover up.

    What I am talking about is the hundreds of thousands of PSU fans, alums, etc... that had no idea this was going on. Why are they being blamed for this? Why does everyone want their blood? The leadership that covered this up basically failed these people as well and now everyone wants to blame those people. I don't get the hate and bloodlust for the people who had nothing to do with the cover up.

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    WillyWolverine

  • WillyWolverine said...

    Well I don't believe all alums and fans are standing up for the people who covered this up. I believe most understand how horrible this is. By staff I was referring to the ones not involved in the cover up.

    What I am talking about is the hundreds of thousands of PSU fans, alums, etc... that had no idea this was going on. Why are they being blamed for this? Why does everyone want their blood? The leadership that covered this up basically failed these people as well and now everyone wants to blame those people. I don't get the hate and bloodlust for the people who had nothing to do with the cover up.

    Stop making sense. Stop it.

    getmyjive11

  • WillyWolverine said...

    Well I don't believe all alums and fans are standing up for the people who covered this up. I believe most understand how horrible this is. By staff I was referring to the ones not involved in the cover up.

    What I am talking about is the hundreds of thousands of PSU fans, alums, etc... that had no idea this was going on. Why are they being blamed for this? Why does everyone want their blood? The leadership that covered this up basically failed these people as well and now everyone wants to blame those people. I don't get the hate and bloodlust for the people who had nothing to do with the cover up.

    so, you think that ALL of the alum, fans, and everyone else is being blamed for this?

    the only thing i can think of is that you are arguing against the punishment?

    i think you are misunderstanding the fact that everyone hates penn state much like everyone hated germany.

    not everyone in germany was in the SS, or even a Nazi... but they were all equally reviled during the war... why is that?

    thanks, and goodbye

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    GoingLightBarny

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    so, you think that ALL of the alum, fans, and everyone else is being blamed for this?

    the only thing i can think of is that you are arguing against the punishment?

    i think you are misunderstanding the fact that everyone hates penn state much like everyone hated germany.

    not everyone in germany was in the SS, or even a Nazi... but they were all equally reviled during the war... why is that?

    thanks, and goodbye

    Maybe because this wasn't a war and the elimination of a million jewish people (or whatever the number was)? Maybe people need to direct more anger at the men and not at the university?

    But no, it's easier to just hate a Name.

    getmyjive11

  • getmyjive11 said...

    Maybe because this wasn't a war and the elimination of a million jewish people (or whatever the number was)? Maybe people need to direct more anger at the men and not at the university?

    But no, it's easier to just hate a Name.

    ha ha ha ha...

    okay, man, we get it.. you don't rape kids.

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    GoingLightBarny

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    so, you think that ALL of the alum, fans, and everyone else is being blamed for this?

    the only thing i can think of is that you are arguing against the punishment?

    i think you are misunderstanding the fact that everyone hates penn state much like everyone hated germany.

    not everyone in germany was in the SS, or even a Nazi... but they were all equally reviled during the war... why is that?

    thanks, and goodbye

    Yes. I have read numerous threads where different posters are blaming alum, fans, etc...

    Yes i would prefer the NCAA to stay out of it. I want the legal system to handle this. Prison time for the people who covered this up is what i want to see. Civil suits against the university and individuals involved in the cover up.

    But why does everyone hate Penn State? I can understand the hate for the individuals involved but the hate for all of Penn State is illogical. So I should hate some kid from Penn State that i have never met because the leadership at his University covered up child rape? That just makes no sense to me.

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    WillyWolverine

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    ha ha ha ha...

    okay, man, we get it.. you don't rape kids.

    Nor do the other people that you are showing hate towards in the PSU community.

    getmyjive11

  • WillyWolverine said...

    Yes. I have read numerous threads where different posters are blaming alum, fans, etc...

    Yes i would prefer the NCAA to stay out of it. I want the legal system to handle this. Prison time for the people who covered this up is what i want to see. Civil suits against the university and individuals involved in the cover up.

    But why does everyone hate Penn State? I can understand the hate for the individuals involved but the hate for all of Penn State is illogical. So I should hate some kid from Penn State that i have never met because the leadership at his University covered up child rape? That just makes no sense to me.

    this is funny.

    you are taking the behavior of EVERY fan base, for EVERY team, for EVERY situation... hell, fan bases do it so much that each person ends up taking the whole program, fan base, school, institution, and EVERYTHING about a school, as a whole.

    this is not a new phenomenon, but i get it... everyone expects it to change when it for whatever reason, but then they go right back to the illogical behavior of lumping everyone in with everything else.

    you think the hate for Penn State is so illogical, what about your hate for Michigan State, and all the rest of the rivalry crap?

    oh, and unfortunately, when you do something wrong, as an institution, you don't get to choose your punishment. That's just not how it works.

    and i just told you why everyone hates penn state. so stop being simple and just understand

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    GoingLightBarny

  • getmyjive11 said...

    Nor do the other people that you are showing hate towards in the PSU community.

    ha ha ha ha...

    yeah, i am not showing hate towards anyone, except for penn state apologists, and the creeps that defend everyone on some sort of disbelieving knee-jerk reaction

    ha ha ha...

    you are generalizing, but mad about others generalizing.

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    GoingLightBarny

  • GoingLightBarny said...

    this is funny.

    you are taking the behavior of EVERY fan base, for EVERY team, for EVERY situation... hell, fan bases do it so much that each person ends up taking the whole program, fan base, school, institution, and EVERYTHING about a school, as a whole.

    this is not a new phenomenon, but i get it... everyone expects it to change when it for whatever reason, but then they go right back to the illogical behavior of lumping everyone in with everything else.

    you think the hate for Penn State is so illogical, what about your hate for Michigan State, and all the rest of the rivalry crap?

    oh, and unfortunately, when you do something wrong, as an institution, you don't get to choose your punishment. That's just not how it works.

    and i just told you why everyone hates penn state. so stop being simple and just understand

    I don't hate Michigan St at all, what the hell are you talking about?

    And congrats for being a bigot. That's fantastic.

    getmyjive11