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CRgator1 said...
I know they aren't USC's "natural" rival.
Bama and LSU arent natural rivals either.
By importance where would you rank the gms then?
You would have it Notre Dame #1?
In and out of relevancy as they are they (Stanford and Oregon) are relevant at the moment. And significantly more relevant than ND, at the moment.
Like I said, especially with the Pac 12 having a conf championship gm, as well as the Big 10, it is more appealing for recruits to follow those in confetence gms.
This post was edited by usctrojan1 on 4/19/2012 at 12:38 AM
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usctrojan1 said...
I simply oppose the word "rival", that involves tradition and respect.
A team currently dominant means nothing more than an obstacle to get by to reach the desired goal. A win, you take joy in the victory and move on, a rival..you savor it and great plays become legend. 4th & 9 was only six years ago, and the players on that great team counted it the greatest victory of their careers...over the National Championship. That is a rivalry.
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usctrojan1 said...
I simply oppose the word "rival", that involves tradition and respect.
A team currently dominant means nothing more than an obstacle to get by to reach the desired goal. A win, you take joy in the victory and move on, a rival..you savor it and great plays become legend. 4th & 9 was only six years ago, and the players on that great team counted it the greatest victory of their careers...over the National Championship. That is a rivalry.
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CRgator1 said...
I understand your view point on "rival".
But, you get what Im saying about the conference championship gm changing things?
When I said "rivalries picking up" thats what I was speaking about.
Oregon/Stanford and USC I could see becoming rivals, due to possible matchups in the Pac champ gms.
In ND's case that means there gms with UM and USC, sorta get pushed down the "impact" scale just a notch, not the rivalry though. Between the 2 fanbases(USC/ND that gm will stay impactful), but to the outside world, the other gms will be highly intriguing to most because of the conf championship bids. Wasnt dissing the rivalry at all, just putting it in perspective.
I always want UF to beat FSU, but the UT/UGA gms are far more important.
"Here are provided seats of meditative joy, where shall rise again the destined reign of Troy." Virgil
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usctrojan1 said...
No, you don't understand. You will never understand...nothing wrong with that, but the cultural divide, and what we hold dear are vastly different from what you are capable of understanding. Just like we can't fully understand your ways or conference pride.
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usctrojan1 said...
No, you don't understand. You will never understand...nothing wrong with that, but the cultural divide, and what we hold dear are vastly different from what you are capable of understanding. Just like we can't fully understand your ways or conference pride.
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CRgator1 said...
Conference pride?
You're gonna have to win the Pac12 conference championship gm to get to the Rose Bowl.
Not ND.
Maybe you dont understand, that Stanford beat you guys 2 yrs running, and Oregon won the Pac 12 championship gm last yr.
And you guys beat ND. Yea hold that dearly then.
This post was edited by usctrojan1 on 4/19/2012 at 1:24 AM
"Here are provided seats of meditative joy, where shall rise again the destined reign of Troy." Virgil
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CRgator1 said...
Go back and read my previous posts.
They're all in relation to the future of ND, not USC.
With Stanford and Oregon coming full steam ahead, along with the Big 10 having a conf championship gm, and Meyer vs Hoke, ND will get the short end of the stick.
The media will hype up the Pac 12's USC vs Stanford/Oregon matchups as potential conf championship gm matchups, like wise with the Big 10.
Who follows media hype closely? Recruits do.
ND recruits nationally, I know, but with conference expansions, in my opinion ND is the one team that it will hurt the most.
I didnt say USC vs ND would be less of a rivalry, but it will not be as important in the grand scheme of things. This doesnt hurt USC, it will hurt ND.
You're making this about USC and its really about the disadvantages that ND will be up against.
Do you see ND being a contender over Oregon right now?
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Final Countdown said...
A lot of these "reasons" relate to ND's recruiting. That isn't the problem. ND's talent is second to none. They just never do anything with it. Academic standards and cold weather have NOTHING to do with player development.
"ND's talent is second to none"
our CB play has been attrocious since Holtz left, except when Walton, walk-on soccer player, and Vontez graduated, horrible CB's. Bad hiring has played a huge role in this. TW and CW were the worst developers of talent I've seen. Take 5* talent and never develop it. ND has a lot of great things going for it, unfortunately these great things normally don't appeal to the elite HS kids. Indiana has horrible history of producing talent, weather sucks, academics are stringent, not a party school, ugly girls, and so on. I'm patiently waiting for the day ND relocates to FL.
This post was edited by star69 on 4/19/2012 at 2:37 AM
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SpartanRocky said...
Warning: This is going to be long.
I think it's the same thing that turned Michigan State from a powerhouse in the 50's and 60's into a program fighting for respectability: lack of coaching stability, albeit for a time much shorter than MSU's, and an administration who is not willing to allow a coach enough time to develop his players.
Seriously: ND has had 4 coaches from the start of the '97 season. That's 4 coaches in 15 years; on average, your coaches, on average, have not seen their first full recruiting class graduate. On top of that, your last 3 coaches have all had different schemes: Willingham tried to go West-Coast from the option, Weiss a down-field pro-style O, and Kelly runs a spread. FWIW, Willingham and Weiss ran 4-3's and Kelly a 3-4.
I don't care how good the players your getting are, kids that have to learn new schemes in the middle of their career are not going to reach their full college potential. You're going to be forced to swallow some bad seasons, as there's usually a dip when the last class of a failed predecessor, often reduced due to the attrition following a coaching change, along with that coach's first class (short recruiting time due to coaching hires being done usually between Nov. and Jan.) become your program's only upper classmen.
If ND wants to succeed, it needs to have a coach who isn't looking over his shoulder after his second year. Unfortunately, Notre Dame appears to have the expectation that it just needs the right coach, and it should instantly be a national title contender. That allows for little room for error, and gives the ND coach 0 room for error.
Case in point: This year has become almost a "must win big" year for Kelly; after a solid first year, including a bowl W, Notre Dame regressed last season. Quite frankly, the Irish should have been 10-2, as 5 TO games against both South Florida and Michigan would likely have gone the Irish's way if they committed just 1 less TO in each. I am not trying to rub salt in the wound
The practical effect of losing those 2 games is that Kelly has had identical records in his first 2 seasons (8-5). Now, 8-5 isn't terrible, but it's not nationally elite. I'd assume 2 "ok" years are fine at ND, providing that year 3 shows marked improvement. If those 2 games go the other way, Kelly likely has a BCS bowl bid in his pocket and some insurance for year 3. Why is that important? Well . . .
Notre Dame's '12 schedule is nothing short of brutal. Games @Oklahoma, @Michigan State, @USC are all top 10-15 match-ups on the road, plus the Irish host Michigan (top 10ish preseason), Stanford (top 25) and Miami(FL) (Possibly top 25). Notre Dame could go 7-5 next year and not be upset once. The Irish could well be a much better team in '12 than in '11, but with little improvement of their record.
As long as Notre Dame does not suffer a losing season, I think the Irish need to not only keep Brian Kelly, but make it clear that he is not on the hotseat. If he is fired, the Notre Dame rebuilding process is going to be set back another few years at least, as the next coach comes in. At some point ND needs to pick a guy and stick with him.
Stability is everything in college football, and Notre Dame is proof that even the most prestigious of college football powers need it.
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Face Stabber said...
What is wrong with ND Football?
Entitlement.
That entitlement leads to poor work ethic. They get some recruits to sign the paper just because it says "Notre Dame" on it. But what does "Notre Dame" mean now? They aren't winning and it's not the only team on TV anymore.
This post was edited by CtrlAltDel on 4/19/2012 at 2:37 AM
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mriderblue12 said...
Say what you want about Hoke he's got the job done. I know it's hard to admit, but ND hasn't seen that level of success in a long time on the field, or in recruiting.
You need to find a guy who loves ND, knows what it stands for and sells that well. Fitzgerald has been a great hire for NW, Dantonio for MSU. All these guys don't have the egos and are in it for the kids as opposed to themselves.
Kelly doesn't care about ND, he cares about his reputation and thought ND would be a good platform for him. ND is a sleeping giant, get someone in there who is blue collared loves the school and they will go to work IMO.
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What is wrong with ND Football?