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Will someone (other SEC guys) explain the 25 Signee rule?

  • VTSmitty said...

    What is so hard to understand about the difference in commits and those actually signing a LOI? 25 scholarships per year, 85 total. No school in the nation exceeds that.

    So you are telling me that with 36 commits only 25 of those guys are going to sign? The 85 total scholarship limit isn't exceeded, but I don't see how any coach still gets commits from kids when they already have 33 or 34 and they already know that only 25 can sign.

    EE's would be one thing but the rule has been around long enough that you can't load up on them and show your ass to the 25 limit rule. At least I wouldn't think.

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    RATT

  • sf2k4 said...

    That's what I don't get. As long as we're adhering to the 85 rule, what is everyone so up in arms about?

    I'm not up in arms about it.

    I'm just trying to figure out why we even have the 25 limit rule. I know that nobody can have more than 85 schollies and the NCAA is steadfast on that. I'm honestly just confused about it and would like to hear something that makes sense. I had a friend ask me about it earlier and I had to tell him that I really don't know how it works.

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    RATT

  • IMO, schollies should be yearly anyway and not 4 years

    Jeff4SC

  • Jeff4SC said...

    IMO, schollies should be yearly anyway and not 4 years

    I think that right now they are only for a year aren't they? Maybe that is how the schools are getting around it. I'm pretty sure that schollies aren't 4 years guaranteed in the SEC. I could be wrong, but I think that the 4 year guarantee is only a concept that is on the table at this point. It's not in effect yet.

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    RATT

  • Jeff4SC said...

    IMO, schollies should be yearly anyway and not 4 years

    Eh, I agree and disagree. I would like to see there be more of an incentive for good performance a la grade requirements in academic scholarships, but I could see it getting abused with guys getting cut who are playing well and playing hard to make room for some freshman "phenom."

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    sf2k4

  • Pretty good explanation, in my opinion:

    SEC learning to live with new 25-player signing cap

    Barring opposition, new rule will go into effect for all of NCAA on Aug. 1.

    www.al.com
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    BornToBeRed

  • RATT said...

    I think that right now they are only for a year aren't they? Maybe that is how the schools are getting around it. I'm pretty sure that schollies aren't 4 years guaranteed in the SEC. I could be wrong, but I think that the 4 year guarantee is only a concept that is on the table at this point. It's not in effect yet.

    Some schools do it each way.

    Spurrier operates on a yearly basis. He says you have to earn them each year just like you have to earn your way in life.

    Jeff4SC

  • sf2k4 said...

    That's what I don't get. As long as we're adhering to the 85 rule, what is everyone so up in arms about?

    I have no idea. If you are the 30th kid to sign when a school can give 25 scholarships, then you are an idiot and don't deserve an education.

    People are bitching now about how many commits a team has. Well, you can have a hundred, you can have a thousand. You can give a maximum of 25 scholarships per year and 85 total at any one time. Have no idea why people are unable to comprehend that very simple concept.

    VTSmitty

  • RATT said...

    The EE's should now backcount to their previous signing class.

    That's exactly what happens. UGA has 9 EE's that count to the '12 class (that only had 16 initial counters).

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    "...this is the game plan, we have no alternate plan"-Erskine Russell

    scottncc

  • I believe it really changed things by making the school adhere to the 85 limit in the spring and not the beginning of fall. Some teams were basically having tryouts through spring and summer practice.

    They would also sign more assuming some of the kids wouldn't qualify academically. They aren't afforded this luxury anymore.

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    Face Stabber

  • scottncc said...

    That's exactly what happens. UGA has 9 EE's that count to the '12 class (that only had 16 initial counters).

    You guys only had 16 signees last year?

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    RATT

  • Jeff4SC said...

    Some schools do it each way.

    Spurrier operates on a yearly basis. He says you have to earn them each year just like you have to earn your way in life.

    I think that Saban is the same way at Bama.

    I'm pretty sure that Richt offers a guaranteed four years.

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    RATT

  • VTSmitty said...

    Have no idea why people are unable to comprehend that very simple concept.

    Because I guarantee you that there are schools in the SEC last year and this year that will have over 25 kids that sign letters of intent. The 85 total will not be exceeded, but there will be schools that sign more than 25 kids in February. I wasn't asking about the 85 number. I asked about the 25 number.

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    RATT

  • RATT said...

    I think that Saban is the same way at Bama.

    I'm pretty sure that Richt offers a guaranteed four years.

    Yep and it should be 1 year. You shouldn't be guaranteed anything.

    Academic scholarships aren't guaranteed.

    Jeff4SC

  • RATT said...

    So you are telling me that with 36 commits only 25 of those guys are going to sign? The 85 total scholarship limit isn't exceeded, but I don't see how any coach still gets commits from kids when they already have 33 or 34 and they already know that only 25 can sign.

    EE's would be one thing but the rule has been around long enough that you can't load up on them and show your ass to the 25 limit rule. At least I wouldn't think.

    Ratt, take 6 early entries and 5 grey shirts and 36 works fine. End result is 25 per class and 85 total. This is one area that is impossible to hide from the NCAA. You cannot hide it. Can it result in a kid showing up on campus and bein told they can't honor his scholarship? Yes. Again, if you are signee #35 in a class of 25, you are potentially a dumbass.

    VTSmitty

  • sf2k4 said...

    That's what I don't get. As long as we're adhering to the 85 rule, what is everyone so up in arms about?

    The NCAA 85/25 limits have been in effect for 30 years. They do not prevent oversigning. They merely limit how many players a team can have on scholarship each semester. Basically, if you cut a player from the roster you can replace him. And that's the problem. Some coaches have developed a regular practice of cutting "underperforming" players every year just so they can sign new ones. It's a terrible thing to do to a player who was promised an education and who is fulfilling all his obligations, but it's very tempting because it creates a significant competitive advantage for those who do it. The new SEC "no signing over 25" rule was supposed to put an end to the practice, but it clearly doesn't if all it does is mirror the existing NCAA 85/25 limits.

    This post was edited by MrWoodson on 12/26/2012 at 10:49 PM

    MrWoodson

  • RATT said...

    You guys only had 16 signees last year?

    We signed 19 last year, but 3 were backcounted to the '11 class. We haven't signed 25 in quite a while. Uga had around 75 scholarship players on roster this year. (not counting walk-ons that were awarded schollies)

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    "...this is the game plan, we have no alternate plan"-Erskine Russell

    scottncc

  • Jeff4SC said...

    Yep and it should be 1 year. You shouldn't be guaranteed anything.

    Academic scholarships aren't guaranteed.

    The problem is, what determines doing your part? All I had to keep for my academic scholarship was a 3.0 or better. So, where do we set the cutoff for athletes in their sport?

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    sf2k4

  • VTSmitty said...

    Ratt, take 6 early entries and 5 grey shirts and 36 works fine. End result is 25 per class and 85 total. This is one area that is impossible to hide from the NCAA. You cannot hide it. Can it result in a kid showing up on campus and bein told they can't honor his scholarship? Yes. Again, if you are signee #35 in a class of 25, you are potentially a dumbass.

    I agree with you about them being dumbasses if what you say if correct. I've heard of like one or two kids taking a greyshirt but I've never heard of five or six. Now that the rule has been around for a few years in the SEC that the EE's would already have caught up with schools.

    I do get what you're saying though. However they do it, as long as the 85 number limit isn't exceeded then whatever. I was honestly just trying to figure out why they even made a 25 number rule in the first place. Someone asked me about it earlier and I just had to shake my head and say that I had no fvcking idea.

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    RATT

  • sf2k4 said...

    The problem is, what determines doing your part? All I had to keep for my academic scholarship was a 3.0 or better. So, where do we set the cutoff for athletes in their sport?

    Not sure, but IMO you shouldn't be guaranteed anything.

    Academic scholarships aren't givien on a 4 yr basis and they say oh you can have this guaranteed even if you fail.

    This post was edited by Jeff4SC on 12/26/2012 at 10:56 PM

    Jeff4SC

  • Jeff4SC said...

    Not sure, but IMO you shouldn't be guaranteed anything.

    Academic scholarships aren't giving on a 4 yr basis and they say oh you can have this guaranteed even if you fail.

    No, but I don't want to see a guy who might not be a starter but his trying as best he can and is at least a good player get cut to make room for some freshman. It's one thing to be a lazy slacker, it's another to be a career backup. The latter can still be a good person and a hard-worker and they deserve to stay on. Considering how few of these guys actually go pro, there's more to the scholarship and their future than just playing football.

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    sf2k4

  • scottncc said...

    We signed 19 last year, but 3 were backcounted to the '11 class. We haven't signed 25 in quite a while. Uga had around 75 scholarship players on roster this year. (not counting walk-ons that were awarded schollies)

    UGA has more like 69 not including walk-ons...

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    Face Stabber

  • sf2k4 said...

    The problem is, what determines doing your part? All I had to keep for my academic scholarship was a 3.0 or better. So, where do we set the cutoff for athletes in their sport?

    My schollie was the same way on the academic side. Maybe the athletes have something written in their scholarships that say if you keep a certain GPA that you still get to keep your scholarship though. You would think they would have something like that.

    Whether they do or not beats the fvck out of me. I don't know how you say that you aren't "doing your part" and yank a kids schollie for athletics. Seems like a slippery slope.

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    RATT

  • Face Stabber said...

    I believe it really changed things by making the school adhere to the 85 limit in the spring and not the beginning of fall. Some teams were basically having tryouts through spring and summer practice.

    They would also sign more assuming some of the kids wouldn't qualify academically. They aren't afforded this luxury anymore.

    If that's the only thing that has changed, it's pitiful. All a coach has to do is cull his roster in late December after bowl practices (or the day before NSD even) rather than in late April after Spring ball. It barely changes anything.

    This post was edited by MrWoodson on 12/26/2012 at 10:59 PM

    MrWoodson

  • RATT said...

    I agree with you about them being dumbasses if what you say if correct. I've heard of like one or two kids taking a greyshirt but I've never heard of five or six. Now that the rule has been around for a few years in the SEC that the EE's would already have caught up with schools.

    I do get what you're saying though. However they do it, as long as the 85 number limit isn't exceeded then whatever. I was honestly just trying to figure out why they even made a 25 number rule in the first place. Someone asked me about it earlier and I just had to shake my head and say that I had no fvcking idea.

    Ratt, I think you and I both agree it is a crock of shit. We had a decommitt at noon on NSD that was the 35th player Miami signed. They had 8 early enrollees and I think two that didn't qualify, which kept them at 25.

    VTSmitty