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You may say the ACC is weak.....

  • I say they are still much improved from over the years.

    Look at it this way. From 1992-2000 (9 years), FSU lost 2 conference games.

    Since then, from 2001-2012 (12 years), they have lost 32 conference games on the field (not counting the vacated games).

    It's a down year for sure, but the conference is still much better and more balanced than it has been in the past. Even today, if they can get Miami, FSU, Clemson, and Va Tech at full strength together, that would be a good conference. To me the upside of the ACC could be greater than that of the Big12 in the long run, depending on how the Big12 expands IF they do.

    BetterOff

  • BetterOff said...

    I say they are still much improved from over the years.

    Look at it this way. From 1992-2000 (9 years), FSU lost 2 conference games.

    Since then, from 2001-2012 (12 years), they have lost 32 conference games on the field (not counting the vacated games).

    It's a down year for sure, but the conference is still much better and more balanced than it has been in the past. Even today, if they can get Miami, FSU, Clemson, and Va Tech at full strength together, that would be a good conference. To me the upside of the ACC could be greater than that of the Big12 in the long run, depending on how the Big12 expands IF they do.

    Texas, Oklahoma, WVU is a better top 3 than FSU, Clemson, and VT.

    After that, it isn't even a debate that the Big 12 is deeper. I would have loved for WVU to play an ACC schedule this year instead of the Big 12 schedule.

    I mean, The highest ACC SOS is around 45... I don't think there is a single Big 12 school with an SOS that low.

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    MarineMountie

  • BTW, I know you are talking about the future. I just don't see Miami ever getting back to where they once were. Beamer is the only coach to ever be successful at VT, and he is about to be kicked out the door. Clemson... Is Clemson. Good team, underachieves 85% of the time. That is why I have the opinions that I do on this matter. I do think FSU will be a force with Jimbo, and I hope they find their way to the B12 soon.

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    MarineMountie

  • ilovelamp51 said...

    lol

    Down year. Just like VT is having. Not sure about this new coaching staff...

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    MarineMountie

  • MarineMountie said...

    Texas, Oklahoma, WVU is a better top 3 than FSU, Clemson, and VT.

    After that, it isn't even a debate that the Big 12 is deeper. I would have loved for WVU to play an ACC schedule this year instead of the Big 12 schedule.

    I mean, The highest ACC SOS is around 45... I don't think there is a single Big 12 school with an SOS that low.

    This year, yes. There is no denying that this year there is a weakness, big time.

    The ACC did have a team beat an OOC opponent from an AQ conference with at least 7 wins at the moment though. Can't say that for the Big12.

    FSU and Clemson both definitely beat Texas and West Virginia and at worst split with OU, IMO. Va Tech and WVU could be a good game.

    My point also included possible expansion. IF the ACC can keep the teams that they still have, I am not sure the Big12 could expand in a way that would help them any as far as on the field.

    Honestly though your argument would be better served including Kansas St, Okie St, or TCU instead of WVU. FSU still beats all 3 of those though, IMO. Clemson and Kansas St would be a great game.

    This post was edited by BetterOff on 11/23/2012 at 10:45 AM

    BetterOff

  • ilovelamp51 said...

    This is the first time VT hasn't won at least 10 games in the last dozen years. WVU is no where near on that level. This isn't a down year... It's a typical year. Not even flaming but you are delusional as to where your program stands.

    VT is WVU's little brother. Just the way things are, and always have been.

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    MarineMountie

  • MarineMountie said...

    Texas, Oklahoma, WVU is a better top 3 than FSU, Clemson, and VT.

    After that, it isn't even a debate that the Big 12 is deeper. I would have loved for WVU to play an ACC schedule this year instead of the Big 12 schedule.

    I mean, The highest ACC SOS is around 45... I don't think there is a single Big 12 school with an SOS that low.

    roflmao

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    NoVaNoles

  • MarineMountie said...

    VT is WVU's little brother. Just the way things are, and always have been.

    Really?

    Since 1989, Va Tech is 12-5 against WVU.

    BetterOff

  • ilovelamp51 said...

    I'm the youngest of 3 boys and I will kick both my older brothers asses, anytime anywhere.

    See this for an example.

    Yup, Miami is FSU's older brother and we have been giving them swirlies ever since FSU became a grown man

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    NoVaNoles

  • ilovelamp51 said...

    Lol. FSU hasn't become grown men by any means. Miami has just been recovering from hip surgery.

    ...

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    NoVaNoles

  • ilovelamp51 said...

    I'm the youngest of 3 boys and I will kick both my older brothers asses, anytime anywhere.

    See this for an example.

    Weird that WVU dominates VT in the series, BCS Bowl wins, all-time wins, Basketball(not even close there), Conference titles, I could go on.

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    MarineMountie

  • ilovelamp51 said...

    Lol. FSU hasn't become grown men by any means. Miami has just been recovering from hip surgery.

    I was going to go with a different type of rehab, but shrug.

    BetterOff

  • MarineMountie said...

    Weird that WVU dominates VT in the series, BCS Bowl wins, all-time wins, Basketball(not even close there), Conference titles, I could go on.

    The difference in the series is 6 games. From 1912-1957 WVU was 7-1 against Va Tech. That is the difference in the series.

    From 1974 to the present, the series is tied.

    BetterOff

  • NoVaNoles said...

    Yup, Miami is FSU's older brother and we have been giving them swirlies ever since FSU became a grown man

    Our little brother is sick from Chiziktivitis. We should play nice with them but it's fun to beat the hell out of them

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    Ichabod

  • BetterOff said...

    The difference in the series is 6 games. From 1912-1957 WVU was 7-1 against Va Tech. That is the difference in the series.

    From 1974 to the present, the series is tied.

    Taking away games before 1900, WVU is beating Pitt in the series. Unfortunately, Pitt still dominates the series by about 18 games.

    Anyway, this was just my opinion people. If you don't like my opinion on the Big 12 and ACC, that is perfectly fine. SOS is on my side, but if you disagree, just say so. Trying to debate that VT is somehow above WVU is crazy talk. It would be like saying Michigan State is above Michigan. It just isn't true.

    That said, I do believe(as do most WVU and VT fans I have talked to) the series needs renewed. Its been a long enough break, and I'm sure the fans have settled down a bit on both sides. I think there needs to be a yearly game at FedEx field. Possibly a Thanksgiving game. Its a heated rivalry that always did great in ratings. WVU and VT has always had a good relationship. Hell, without WVU, VT may not even be a BCS school right now. I do think its stupid that VT stole the Flying WV designgrumble

    I know talks have happened between the two schools about an annual game at FedEX/

    This post was edited by MarineMountie on 11/23/2012 at 11:20 AM

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    MarineMountie

  • BetterOff said...

    I say they are still much improved from over the years.

    Look at it this way. From 1992-2000 (9 years), FSU lost 2 conference games.

    Since then, from 2001-2012 (12 years), they have lost 32 conference games on the field (not counting the vacated games).

    It's a down year for sure, but the conference is still much better and more balanced than it has been in the past. Even today, if they can get Miami, FSU, Clemson, and Va Tech at full strength together, that would be a good conference. To me the upside of the ACC could be greater than that of the Big12 in the long run, depending on how the Big12 expands IF they do.

    I absolutely agree. ACC still has teams in the talent rich states of Georgia, Florida, etc. The B12 has the state of Texas. In the end it is about the recruits and the ACC has a much better base of talent. Now they need to get some coaching. I think Miami has the right coach and will be good as soon as the sanctions will permit them.

    dpfenny

  • Ichabod said...

    Our little brother is sick from Chiziktivitis. We should play nice with them but it's fun to beat the hell out of them

    Nice to see you feeling okay enough to post today, you know..... after getting RG3'd yesterday

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    NoVaNoles

  • dpfenny said...

    I absolutely agree. ACC still has teams in the talent rich states of Georgia, Florida, etc. The B12 has the state of Texas. In the end it is about the recruits and the ACC has a much better base of talent. Now they need to get some coaching. I think Miami has the right coach and will be good as soon as the sanctions will permit them.

    Definitely. Problem is with the landscape changing so quickly these days, the ACC still seems to be the conference in trouble, IMO as I doubt Miami can get back to make the conference attractive enough to keep FSU, Va Tech, and maybe Clemson from bolting.

    BetterOff

  • NoVaNoles said...

    Nice to see you feeling okay enough to post today, you know..... after getting RG3'd yesterday

    Screw RGIII. Eff the Skins....but most of all KILL ROMO!!!!

    BetterOff

  • Yeah, it's not happening. FSU may be fine but there's a good chance they'll never return to what they were in the 90's. Miami does not have th resources to ever be the power they were. Good yes, great no. Virginia Tech is a huge question mark once Beamer retires. They were nothing before him and could be nothing after him.

    Hot Sauce

  • I have trouble seeing how this is a down year for West Virginia. If they can't beat Oklahoma/K St/TCU with a top 10 team to start the season, don't know how they'll beat them without Geno Smith or Tavon Austin.

    Hot Sauce

  • Hot Sauce said...

    I have trouble seeing how this is a down year for West Virginia. If they can't beat Oklahoma/K St/TCU with a top 10 team to start the season, don't know how they'll beat them without Geno Smith or Tavon Austin.

    Coaching...This is the worst coaching staff WVU has had since 1979. Don Nehlen started his 21 year span in 1980.

    Seriously... The talent is there. Dana(who is a good play caller, but bad head coach) hired Joe DeForest. Guy was passed up by Les Miles once, and Mike Gundy twice for the DC position at OSU. Dana gets to WVU and hires this hack to run the defense. Its laughable, and its led to having the worst defense in WVU history statistically. That's pretty much the bottom line.

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    MarineMountie

  • Hot Sauce said...

    I have trouble seeing how this is a down year for West Virginia. If they can't beat Oklahoma/K St/TCU with a top 10 team to start the season, don't know how they'll beat them without Geno Smith or Tavon Austin.

    I agree with you in the short term. The next couple of years could be average, but I think they would be average even if they had Geno and Co. coming back. Their problem is that they have absolutely nothing on defense. I don't mean just poor tackling, I mean poor players. It will take a couple of year to fix that no matter who is on offense.

    Long term though, they may not be OU or what Texas should be, but the can fit in where Okie St and Kansas St are in the conference, IMO.

    BetterOff

  • MarineMountie said...

    Coaching...This is the worst coaching staff WVU has had since 1979. Don Nehlen started his 21 year span in 1980.

    Seriously... The talent is there. Dana(who is a good play caller, but bad head coach) hired Joe DeForest. Guy was passed up by Les Miles once, and Mike Gundy twice for the DC position at OSU. Dana gets to WVU and hires this hack to run the defense. Its laughable, and its led to having the worst defense in WVU history statistically. That's pretty much the bottom line.

    I want to thank you guys for not hiring Brian Stewart. He's done wonders at UMD with a terrible defense from las year. If West Virginia had any defense it would be a whole new season. Jeff Casteel doesn't seem so bad now.

    Hot Sauce

  • BetterOff said...

    I agree with you in the short term. The next couple of years could be average, but I think they would be average even if they had Geno and Co. coming back. Their problem is that they have absolutely nothing on defense. I don't mean just poor tackling, I mean poor players. It will take a couple of year to fix that no matter who is on offense.

    Long term though, they may not be OU or what Texas should be, but the can fit in where Okie St and Kansas St are in the conference, IMO.

    They can definitely go to bowl games every year with top 25 finished, it's just going to take a lot of work. A lot going against them with location and the fact that Texas and OU run that conference.

    Hot Sauce