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any followers of "Darwin's theory" here?

  • Jeff4SC said...

    Genesis 1:27

    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them

    "Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light."-Albus Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban

    ramssuperbowl99

  • Weedline said...

    Does anyone think that life is still "survival of the fittest"? Because it's not. At least it's not in this country. It's unnatural, but at least we are politically correct? Right? Right guys?

    Evolution does not equal social darwinism.

    ramssuperbowl99

  • Shane8773 said...

    Christians admit to faith. Macro evolution involves faith and people who support it won't admit it

    Again, this is the problem. Not all faith is equal.
    For example. Two people stand on a roof. No god involved. One has faith in gravity. The other has faith in magic flying abilities. One jumps off the building thinking magic flying abilities will save him. The other doesn't because of the overhwhelming evidence in gravity. Do you think both faiths are equal?

    signature image

    "As far as the downvotes. It's a gnat biting an lion" -- A member of tRCMB Justice League, taking the internet WAY WAY too seriously.

    Rocket_Play

  • Weedline, due to information sharing and elements of the "Enlightenment" we do not cast off the handicapped, the lazy, we do not kill people because they are misshapen. It has been proven though that homo sapiens had competing species of developing sapient beings and we killed them off.

    We are entering into an era in which social darwinism is being replaced by the ideals of universal humanity and welfare states that say every human is part of the family and we need to help them as much we can. Through most of human history if an obese person didnt want to work they would be kicked out of the community and they'd die alone and scared. We believe we are "past that".

    fsufsu

  • jhenryhoo said...

    If people evolved from another creature (whichever one you think) then why are there not creatures that are currently in the in-between stage of evolution? Micro evolution definitely takes place but I can't see the evidence that supports macro evolution. Just wondering if anyone has a good answer or if I'm missing something. Not trolling

    Micro and marcro evolution aren't actual phenomena. There is only evolution and gradual change over time. Your understanding of evolution is flawed (not insulting you, it just is).

    It is not as if people are proposing that one day there was a monkey, then there was a half-monkey half-human intermediate, then there was a human. That's not how evolution works. How evolution actually works is that you start with one species (a great ape will be my example). Then (usually), there is some type of fragment of the population - so maybe one day there is an earthquake and a few animals get separated as a result. Then, over thousands of years, the DNA of each species changes a little bit. Maybe the new area has different fruit that is hard to open, so the hands of the new animals need to be stronger. Well, the great ape that is born with strong hands survives and all the female great apes love him (metaphorically and literally), so suddenly now the new species all has strong hands.

    Now, when we look back, we can see 3 total species. We can see the new guys with the strong hands, new apes without those hands (the guys who weren't separated), and the fossil remnants of their mutual ancestor. That's evolution.

    By the way, the 'intermediate species' thing is a logical fallacy. Let's say that Species A evolves into Species D, and we have the genetic code to prove it. You say, wait a minute, why don't you have intermediate Species C? Well, let's say by a stroke of luck, we manage to find Species C. Well then, you're just going to ask for Species B - the intermediate between Species A and Species C. And if we find that, you'll ask for another, and another, and another.

    It's a fallacy designed to require an infinite amount of evidence.

    ramssuperbowl99

  • Rocket_Play said...

    Again, this is the problem. Not all faith is equal.
    For example. Two people stand on a roof. No god involved. One has faith in gravity. The other has faith in magic flying abilities. One jumps off the building thinking magic flying abilities will save him. The other doesn't because of the overhwhelming evidence in gravity. Do you think both faiths are equal?

    I'm not claiming to have faith in magic flying abilities. I'm claiming that there is a creator of the universe.

    Shane8773

  • Shane8773 said...

    I'm not claiming to have faith in magic flying abilities. I'm claiming that there is a creator of the universe.

    The magic flying abilities seem more reasonable.

    ramssuperbowl99

  • Nole of 16 said...

    You what mate?

    I think this particular list of fossils would hold more weight if they didn't have to draw in pictures of the fossils they haven't found yet. Looks like they are assuming. JMO

    How do they know that these are "transitional fossils" and not just a similar looking species or kind?

    Again people, the questions I am asking are in no way meant to demean anyone. I really want to know why people believe what they believe and it also makes me dig deeper.

    The Future Is Bright! Hotty Toddy

    Rebel_30

  • Shane8773 said...

    I'm not claiming to have faith in magic flying abilities. I'm claiming that there is a creator of the universe.

    Yep. But it's the same thing.

    signature image

    "As far as the downvotes. It's a gnat biting an lion" -- A member of tRCMB Justice League, taking the internet WAY WAY too seriously.

    Rocket_Play

  • Rebel_30 said...

    I think this particular list of fossils would hold more weight if they didn't have to draw in pictures of the fossils they haven't found yet. Looks like they are assuming. JMO

    How do they know that these are "transitional fossils" and not just a similar looking species or kind?

    Again people, the questions I am asking are in no way meant to demean anyone. I really want to know why people believe what they believe and it also makes me dig deeper.

    Every fossil is a 'transitional fossil'. All species are changing, including our own.

    However, focusing on just the fossil record is only .00...1% of evolutionary evidence. The overwhelming proof comes from genetics and gene sequencing.

    If you look at related species, you can see evidence of the change without ever needing a fossil. Before I explain it, a little genetics 101.

    Our DNA is made of of 4 different base pairs, labelled A, G, T, and C. It takes 3 of those base pairs to code for 1 amino acid (the building blocks for proteins). But that math doesn't check out, because there are 4*4*4 ways to have a 3 DNA sequence (64 in total) for only 20 amino acids. What does this mean? There are duplicate ways to code for the same amino acid, which would give you the same protein. So, if you see AGT, it's possible (and actually almost likely) that the sequence AGC will code for the same amino acid.

    Why does this matter? Because you can see evidence of change across species. Species A will have AGTAGTAGT and Species B might have AGTAGCAGC. Same 3 amino acids coded. Different DNA.

    There are only 2 conclusions.
    1. God is trying to trick you by making every created species look like the product of random change.
    2. Evolution by natural selection.

    ramssuperbowl99

  • Rocket_Play said...

    Yep. But it's the same thing.

    Not seeing the correlation. You don't know that someone didnt create the universe. I don't know but I believe someone did. You and I both know I have no magic flying abilities. If you knew for a fact that there was no creator then you would have a point

    Shane8773

  • ramssuperbowl99 said...

    Every fossil is a 'transitional fossil'. All species are changing, including our own.

    However, focusing on just the fossil record is only .00...1% of evolutionary evidence. The overwhelming proof comes from genetics and gene sequencing.

    If you look at related species, you can see evidence of the change without ever needing a fossil. Before I explain it, a little genetics 101.

    Our DNA is made of of 4 different base pairs, labelled A, G, T, and C. It takes 3 of those base pairs to code for 1 amino acid (the building blocks for proteins). But that math doesn't check out, because there are 4*4*4 ways to have a 3 DNA sequence (64 in total) for only 20 amino acids. What does this mean? There are duplicate ways to code for the same amino acid, which would give you the same protein. So, if you see AGT, it's possible (and actually almost likely) that the sequence AGC will code for the same amino acid.

    Why does this matter? Because you can see evidence of change across species. Species A will have AGTAGTAGT and Species B might have AGTAGCAGC. Same 3 amino acids coded. Different DNA.

    There are only 2 conclusions.
    1. God is trying to trick you by making every created species look like the product of random change.
    2. Evolution by natural selection.

    So because we have similar DNA codes we must all be related. Again... Common creator

    Shane8773

  • Shane8773 said...

    So because we have similar DNA codes we must all be related. Again... Common creator

    The common creator works well, until you see the differences that produce no meaningful change in the organism. Why go through the painstaking work of changing trillions upon trillions of G to C, when you know that will produce no change to the organism?

    So, if we were to have been created, we would have had to been created by a guy who wanted to make it appear as if we weren't created whatsoever.

    ramssuperbowl99

  • I'm not seeing where these random changes prove we weren't created.

    Shane8773

  • To the OP,
    Evolution is a brute fact on which many other practical disciplines are based. Open your eyes: the common cold mutates (evolves) every season, certain strains of bacteria build up resistances to certain antibiotics every year, etc. The examples can be multiplied a hundred fold... and these are simply examples that we can actually observe (right now).

    If you thought a little more, you'd be able to notice that evolution and god aren't necessarily exclusive. But again that would require thinking.

    tlhwg

  • Of course, the whole 'god created everything to have a personal relationship with us' argument starts to lose credibility when you think about a few things.

    1. The size of the universe. It would take light about 93 billion years to travel from one side to the other. There are hundreds of billions of GALAXIES.

    If the entire point of this existence was to judge/talk with us, why the hell is the place so big. This is akin to saying you need a single molecule of water and coming back with a trillion oceans worth.

    2. The age of the universe. Roughly 14 billion years. The first 9+ billion, there was no earth. Then there was about a billion and a half years of an earth with no life. Finally, there's a bunch of single-celled organisms. Only in the past hundred to two hundred thousand years has any sentient life emerged.

    You say, 'oh well god doesn't care about time'.

    Fine - think of the method that he would have chosen for evolution. Evolution, morally, is abhorrent. Survival of the fittest inherently means that the unfit starve and painfully die out. From a god who emphasizes compassion for the poor and helping those in need, it seems absolutely insane he would choose the exact opposite method to generate his creation that he loves so much.

    3. Physical features of the earth. If you were going to make a habitat for humanity with all your love, I can assure you it wouldn't come with the following:
    Mudslides
    Earthquakes
    Hurricanes
    Tornados
    Tsunamis
    Volcanic eruptions
    Temperatures that oscillate between freezing your ass off and hot as hell
    70% of the habitat occupied by water that we can't even drink
    Trillions upon trillions of microorganisms trying to kill us that we can't see or defend ourselves from

    ramssuperbowl99

  • Shane8773 said...

    I'm not seeing where these random changes prove we weren't created.

    Then explain why god would go through and change trillions of DNA base pairs, knowing that those changes don't change an organism's physiology.

    ramssuperbowl99

  • ramssuperbowl99 said...

    Of course, the whole 'god created everything to have a personal relationship with us' argument starts to lose credibility when you think about a few things.

    1. The size of the universe. It would take light about 93 billion years to travel from one side to the other. There are hundreds of billions of GALAXIES.

    If the entire point of this existence was to judge/talk with us, why the hell is the place so big. This is akin to saying you need a single molecule of water and coming back with a trillion oceans worth.

    2. The age of the universe. Roughly 14 billion years. The first 9+ billion, there was no earth. Then there was about a billion and a half years of an earth with no life. Finally, there's a bunch of single-celled organisms. Only in the past hundred to two hundred thousand years has any sentient life emerged.

    You say, 'oh well god doesn't care about time'.

    Fine - think of the method that he would have chosen for evolution. Evolution, morally, is abhorrent. Survival of the fittest inherently means that the unfit starve and painfully die out. From a god who emphasizes compassion for the poor and helping those in need, it seems absolutely insane he would choose the exact opposite method to generate his creation that he loves so much.

    3. Physical features of the earth. If you were going to make a habitat for humanity with all your love, I can assure you it wouldn't come with the following:
    Mudslides
    Earthquakes
    Hurricanes
    Tornados
    Tsunamis
    Volcanic eruptions
    Temperatures that oscillate between freezing your ass off and hot as hell
    70% of the habitat occupied by water that we can't even drink
    Trillions upon trillions of microorganisms trying to kill us that we can't see or defend ourselves from

    Holy crap! So much wrong with this post I have no clue where to start. You stated like 10 things as fact that are not proven

    Shane8773

  • There was a young man of god who went to college and had a roomate that did not believe in god.The young man would witness about the glory of god everyday to his roomate.One day the young man brought his science project to the room(A MODEL OF THE SOLAR SYSTEM).The roomate came home and asked "where did that come from?".The young man replied "It just appeared".The roomate replied "impossible".After a long pause the roomate said "i get it now".He is a pastor today.God bless.

    ArkGator

  • Shane8773 said...

    I'm not seeing where these random changes prove we weren't created.

    Atheists are dumb too. Agnosticism is the only viable stance. We can neither prove nor disprove god whatever you would think god would be. There is a large amount of evidence that we may have been seeded here on earth. If the movie, as clumsy and poorly executed as it was, Prometheus portrayed an accurate situation then would they be "god". I bet you'd say no.

    One thing we can say with near certainty is that man kind is TRULY convinced entities came from above and gave us vision and information at certain points in the past. The civilizations that believe they experienced this were scientifically retarded. The actual meaning of the word retarded. They turned this perceivably real experience into over 1,500 other fairy tales to match their own societal ideals, etc over the next few thousand years. If you really believe that you have to be apart of a single religion to go to "heaven" you are part of a process at least 9k years old where each person regurgitates the myopic version of their parents story.

    fsufsu

  • ArkGator said...

    There was a young man of god who went to college and had a roomate that did not believe in god.The young man would witness about the glory of god everyday to his roomate.One day the young man brought his science project to the room(A MODEL OF THE SOLAR SYSTEM).The roomate came home and asked "where did that come from?".The young man replied "It just appeared".The roomate replied "impossible".After a long pause the roomate said "i get it now".He is a pastor today.God bless.

    It's really sad to me that you typed that thinking it was witty, poignant and in any way something other than further establishment of how metamyths spread. You also appear to have extremely limited understanding as to how the universe purportedly formed.

    fsufsu

  • Shane8773 said...

    Christians admit to faith. Macro evolution involves faith and people who support it won't admit it

    Evolution is based on evidence that has been observed. There is a great amount of this evidence. When evidence is found to contradict previous conclusions, those conclusions are abandoned, and new beliefs based on the new evidence take their place. This "seeing is believing" basis for the theory is exactly the opposite of the sort of faith implied by your claim.

    As to macro evolution specifically;

    1.We would not expect to observe large changes directly. Evolution consists mainly of the accumulation of small changes over large periods of time. If we saw something like a fish turning into a frog in just a couple generations, we would have good evidence against evolution.

    2.The evidence for evolution does not depend, even a little, on observing macroevolution directly. There is a very great deal of other evidence. http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA202.html

    3.As biologists use the term, macroevolution means evolution at or above the species level. Speciation has been observed and documented. http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB910.html

    4.Microevolution has been observed and is taken for granted even by creationists. And because there is no known barrier to large change and because we can expect small changes to accumulate into large changes, microevolution implies macroevolution. Small changes to developmental genes or their regulation can cause relatively large changes in the adult organism (Shapiro et al. 2004).

    5.There are many transitional forms that show that macroevolution has occurred
    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC200.html

    We are both atheists. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours

    OmegaBuckeye

  • fsufsu said...

    Atheists are dumb too. Agnosticism is the only viable stance. We can neither prove nor disprove god whatever you would think god would be. There is a large amount of evidence that we may have been seeded here on earth. If the movie, as clumsy and poorly executed as it was, Prometheus portrayed an accurate situation then would they be "god". I bet you'd say no.

    One thing we can say with near certainty is that man kind is TRULY convinced entities came from above and gave us vision and information at certain points in the past. The civilizations that believe they experienced this were scientifically retarded. The actual meaning of the word retarded. They turned this perceivably real experience into over 1,500 other fairy tales to match their own societal ideals, etc over the next few thousand years. If you really believe that you have to be apart of a single religion to go to "heaven" you are part of a process at least 9k years old where each person regurgitates the myopic version of their parents story.

    I don't know for a fact that Christianity is the only way to heaven. I think the fact that there are so many religions that all have the same central belief is proof that we were created by a central God

    Shane8773

  • OmegaBuckeye said...

    Evolution is based on evidence that has been observed. There is a great amount of this evidence. When evidence is found to contradict previous conclusions, those conclusions are abandoned, and new beliefs based on the new evidence take their place. This "seeing is believing" basis for the theory is exactly the opposite of the sort of faith implied by your claim.

    As to macro evolution specifically;

    1.We would not expect to observe large changes directly. Evolution consists mainly of the accumulation of small changes over large periods of time. If we saw something like a fish turning into a frog in just a couple generations, we would have good evidence against evolution.

    2.The evidence for evolution does not depend, even a little, on observing macroevolution directly. There is a very great deal of other evidence. http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA202.html

    3.As biologists use the term, macroevolution means evolution at or above the species level. Speciation has been observed and documented. http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB910.html

    4.Microevolution has been observed and is taken for granted even by creationists. And because there is no known barrier to large change and because we can expect small changes to accumulate into large changes, microevolution implies macroevolution. Small changes to developmental genes or their regulation can cause relatively large changes in the adult organism (Shapiro et al. 2004).

    5.There are many transitional forms that show that macroevolution has occurred http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC200.html

    Crushing it. +1

    fsufsu

  • I believe that evolution through natural selection has happened/is happening but I also believe in a deity.

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    "Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    joetheogre