Is health care a right

Is health care a right

  • or a privilege? If you say it's a right, tell me why I should pay for your healthcare when I'm paying for my healthcare now. Do you want to pay higher taxes to pay for my healthcare? Nothing in this world is free.

  • Discussion
  • poleman said... (original post)

    or a privilege? If you say it's a right, tell me why I should pay for your healthcare when I'm paying for my healthcare now. Do you want to pay higher taxes to pay for my healthcare? Nothing in this world is free.

    Lol well we know your stance. I hate to tell you this poleman but you pay for my healthcare buddy. Everytime i go to the VA. I just went last week and will be at mental health in 2 weeks. Sorry to be a burden bro. Also im on like 5 medicines. I only pay copays...and they cheap. Im ashamed of myself

  • DawgDookie said... (original post)

    Lol well we know your stance. I hate to tell you this poleman but you pay for my healthcare buddy. Everytime i go to the VA. I just went last week and will be at mental health in 2 weeks. Sorry to be a burden bro. Also im on like 5 medicines. I only pay copays...and they cheap. Im ashamed of myself

    You earned it and I don't mind. It's other people I'm talking about! You didn't answer one of my questions? How do we pay the 30 Trillion Dollar it is reported that it will cost over a 10 yr. period plus pay down a 22 Trillion dollar debt.

    This post was edited by poleman 12 months ago

  • poleman said... (original post)

    or a privilege? If you say it's a right, tell me why I should pay for your healthcare when I'm paying for my healthcare now. Do you want to pay higher taxes to pay for my healthcare? Nothing in this world is free.

    Because you won't be paying for my healthcare and your healthcare. Everyone will be paying for everyone's healthcare. It's not like you'll be sponsoring me and get my picture in the mail every month to hang on your fridge.

  • TimothySwift said... (original post)

    Because you won't be paying for my healthcare and your healthcare. Everyone will be paying for everyone's healthcare. It's not like you'll be sponsoring me and get my picture in the mail every month to hang on your fridge.

    How do you pay for a program that is expect to cost 3 Trillion dollars a year plus keep spending at it' s present level. You are looking a a spending level on the Federal level of between 6-7 trillion dollars. It can't be done! What do you pay today at this moment for your healthcare?

    This post was edited by poleman 12 months ago

  • I personally don’t see it as a right, but the system here in the USA is broken. The answer is not govt healthcare though

  • poleman said... (original post)

    How do you pay for a program that is expect to cost 3 Trillion dollars a year plus keep spending at it' s present level. You are looking a a spending level on the Federal level of between 6-7 trillion dollars. It can't be done!

    You raise taxes and cut spending.

  • ETownDawg89 said... (original post)

    I personally don’t see it as a right, but the system here in the USA is broken. The answer is not govt healthcare though

    If our health care system is broken, then why is our's one of the best or possibly the best in the world?

  • TimothySwift said... (original post)

    You raise taxes and cut spending.

    You really think they are going to cut spending in Washington? OMG!

  • poleman said... (original post)

    You earned it and I don't mind. It's other people I'm talking about! You didn't answer one of my questions? How do we pay the 30 Trillion Dollar it is reported that it will cost over a 10 yr. period plus pay down a 22 Trillion dollar debt.

    hell bro I believe that if you dont work you dont eat. However, as a Christian man I also believe in taking care of those who are in need. I'd hate for someone to die because they had a heart stint placed but can't afford that expensive ass medicine they have to take for 30 days straight.

  • Here is the problem, and I don't see a realistic way out. There are three groups: (1) those that cover healthcare costs through private insurance; (2) those that have healthcare provided by the government; and (3) those that wing it without coverage. The government underpays health care service providers. Medicare and medicaid simply pay less than insurance companies for the same services. The health care providers offset this "government discount" by increasing charges to insurance companies. Insurance companies offset this somewhat by negotiating discounts with the health care providers but the discounted payments are still more than what the government pays. The uninsured who don't receive government support don't get even the insurance company discounts. They get soaked. As a result, many people without government support or insurance coverage can't pay any substantial amount and file bankruptcy to avoid paying the bill. Health care providers charge this off and, you guessed it, make it up by charging higher rates to the insurance companies. Insurance companies, in turn, raise premiums to meet profit expectations. (Insurance companies are heavily regulated and can't make the same windfall profits are other industries, so large premium increases are almost always caused by increased costs--not just greedy companies).

    While this is an oversimplification, it is a good illustration of how things operate. The result is that people who pay for private health insurance effectively subsidize government health care and non-insureds. I am at a breaking point. Every pay raise I have received this decade has been eaten by rising health insurance premiums. My health insurance premiums equal about 15% of my after tax income (I make decent money, so I am more fortunate than a lot of folks). I believe government run healthcare would result in less quality health care. The government would cap salaries for medical workers, so there would be fewer folks going into the medical field. Investment capital would seek greener pastures and leave less investment available for medical research, leading to fewer medical innovations. But there is a part of me that would rather go ahead and pay 5% of my salary in taxes to fund "medicare for all" instead of the absurd amount I pay right now in insurance premiums (which is what the ultimate aim of the "Affordable" Care Act was anyway).

    This post was edited by byuthomas 12 months ago

  • TimothySwift said... (original post)

    You raise taxes and cut spending.

    When you raise a person's taxes at what level of taxation does a person say screw it. It's not worth my time and effort anymore. I quit! You work hard to earn money to enjoy and improve your life, not to give it to the government.

    This post was edited by poleman 12 months ago

  • poleman said... (original post)

    You really think they are going to cut spending in Washington? OMG!

    Eggzactly. Where on earth is spending going to be cut? I hate to be so cynical but we never cut spending, regardless of which party is in power. Like the saying goes, every member of Congress wants a free market, except in their district.

  • DawgDookie said... (original post)

    hell bro I believe that if you dont work you dont eat. However, as a Christian man I also believe in taking care of those who are in need. I'd hate for someone to die because they had a heart stint placed but can't afford that expensive ass medicine they have to take for 30 days straight.

    You are going to get that anyway with government healthcare. There will be a point when a faceless, nameless government worker will tell you if you are elderly just go home an die. THis isn't about healthcare, it's about more governmental control of you everyday life.

  • As someone that doesnt have to pay for my family healthcare plan, it bothers me that the price my employer pays continues to increase at an alarming rate (21k/year 5 years ago to 34k/year this past year). At what point is my employer going to start making me pay my fair share??? I hope it never happens, but with a government run healthcare system I'm afraid it's not a question of "if" but "when". It should be a free market that our government has zero control over.

    Lol at the guy wanting to RAISE taxes. Come on, you cant be serious!?!?! Taxation is theft and I sure as hell mean it!

    This post was edited by DIESELdawg 12 months ago

  • poleman said... (original post)

    You are going to get that anyway with government healthcare. There will be a point when a faceless, nameless government worker will tell you if you are elderly just go home an die. THis isn't about healthcare, it's about more governmental control of you everyday life.

    Lmao this is true. My ex works for Dept of Health and Human Services. I am taking notes for her. She briefs Trumps people often.

  • poleman said... (original post)

    If our health care system is broken, then why is our's one of the best or possibly the best in the world?

    What’s broken to me is the prices we pay. I agree we have the best healthcare in the world, but the cost and what we pay each year for premiums is ridiculous. If I were to take my company’s plan it would cost me $1200 per month just in premiums. The company has over 8k employees. That’s absurd

  • Working in it, it is evident that change is needed. I'm not sure what exactly the answer is, but I have a few ideas.

    1) Big Pharma needs to go

    2) Medicare/Medicaid needs to pay their share. Lots of folks gripe about their private insurance premiums being high, but you have your federal government to thank for that. They only pay 85-90% of what a service or good actually costs, and hospital/clinics/etc. use your private insurance to re-coup these costs.

    3) Electronic medical records need to become streamlined and/or talk to one another.

    4) Private insurance companies need to get their act together. You have no idea the amount of money that is wasted by requiring pre-approval, etc. For instance, your grandma is admitted, gets treated, but is still not enough to go home, so she needs a sub-acute rehab facility. Grandma's insurance is going to require pre-authorization for this. Despite records being sent to the insurance company the day it is known she needs rehab, it may still take 3 days to determine if they will let her go or not. That is 3 days of room and board, medications, etc. being billed to Grandma's insurance because they can't get their acts together. Which then gets stacked on to your premium to re-coup this cost.

    I personally feel that healthcare is a right. There are certain people who abuse this right, and they suck. However, until you are the provider of a patient who constantly get readmitted because of limitations of their healthcare system, you just won't get it. It really is SUPER complex, and is not as simple as saying I pay my premiums, so I get healthcare, and you don't pay yours, so you don't get healthcare.

    This post was edited by alexevans21 12 months ago

  • poleman said... (original post)

    If our health care system is broken, then why is our's one of the best or possibly the best in the world?

    It is not. Far from it actually (statistically speaking). And that's coming from someone who works in it.

  • alexevans21 said... (original post)

    It is not. Far from it actually (statistically speaking). And that's coming from someone who works in it.

    Answer this for me. Who or what broke it?

    This post was edited by poleman 12 months ago

  • poleman said... (original post)

    Answer this for me. Who or what broke it?

    Big pharma. Private insurance. Federal government. People in suits (Hospital administration) trying to tell people with white coats (providers) how to do their job. People who abuse the system. I could go on and on.

  • byuthomas said... (original post)

    Here is the problem, and I don't see a realistic way out. There are three groups: (1) those that cover healthcare costs through private insurance; (2) those that have healthcare provided by the government; and (3) those that wing it without coverage. The government underpays health care service providers. Medicare and medicaid simply pay less than insurance companies for the same services. The health care providers offset this "government discount" by increasing charges to insurance companies. Insurance companies offset this somewhat by negotiating discounts with the health care providers but the discounted payments are still more than what the government pays. The uninsured who don't receive government support don't get even the insurance company discounts. They get soaked. As a result, many people without government support or insurance coverage can't pay any substantial amount and file bankruptcy to avoid paying the bill. Health care providers charge this off and, you guessed it, make it up by charging higher rates to the insurance companies. Insurance companies, in turn, raise premiums to meet profit expectations. (Insurance companies are heavily regulated and can't make the same windfall profits are other industries, so large premium increases are almost always caused by increased costs--not just greedy companies).

    While this is an oversimplification, it is a good illustration of how things operate. The result is that people who pay for private health insurance effectively subsidize government health care and non-insureds. I am at a breaking point. Every pay raise I have received this decade has been eaten by rising health insurance premiums. My health insurance premiums equal about 15% of my after tax income (I make decent money, so I am more fortunate than a lot of folks). I believe government run healthcare would result in less quality health care. The government would cap salaries for medical workers, so there would be fewer folks going into the medical field. Investment capital would seek greener pastures and leave less investment available for medical research, leading to fewer medical innovations. But there is a part of me that would rather go ahead and pay 5% of my salary in taxes to fund "medicare for all" instead of the absurd amount I pay right now in insurance premiums (which is what the ultimate aim of the "Affordable" Care Act was anyway).

    +1. This is was a very educated response.

  • They should take a poll of what citizens are for universal healthcare, take those results and make them pay for each other’s insurance. See how quickly they change their minds

  • alexevans21 said... (original post)

    Working in it, it is evident that change is needed. I'm not sure what exactly the answer is, but I have a few ideas.

    1) Big Pharma needs to go

    2) Medicare/Medicaid needs to pay their share. Lots of folks gripe about their private insurance premiums being high, but you have your federal government to thank for that. They only pay 85-90% of what a service or good actually costs, and hospital/clinics/etc. use your private insurance to re-coup these costs.

    3) Electronic medical records need to become streamlined and/or talk to one another.

    4) Private insurance companies need to get their act together. You have no idea the amount of money that is wasted by requiring pre-approval, etc. For instance, your grandma is admitted, gets treated, but is still not enough to go home, so she needs a sub-acute rehab facility. Grandma's insurance is going to require pre-authorization for this. Despite records being sent to the insurance company the day it is known she needs rehab, it may still take 3 days to determine if they will let her go or not. That is 3 days of room and board, medications, etc. being billed to Grandma's insurance because they can't get their acts together. Which then gets stacked on to your premium to re-coup this cost.

    I personally feel that healthcare is a right. There are certain people who abuse this right, and they suck. However, until you are the provider of a patient who constantly get readmitted because of limitations of their healthcare system, you just won't get it. It really is SUPER complex, and is not as simple as saying I pay my premiums, so I get healthcare, and you don't pay yours, so you don't get healthcare.

    Then who and how is that right to be paid for? Nothing comes with out some cost.

  • They will raise taxes and you will still have to get additional insurance. Services will get worse. They will tell the doctors what they can charge. Their salaries will go down but they will still have to pay the same for their malpractice insurance. They will start making less money and the smartest people will stop going to med school because it won't be worth it to them anymore. Doctors will leave the profession and wait times will get longer and longer. Services will go down hill. If you are smart enough to be a doctor then why go through all that stress to get paid less. If anyone thinks Medicare for all is a good thing then I really feel bad for you. You have no clue what you are asking for. The bigger the government gets the less control the people have. I am not saying our healthcare system does not need to be be improved but that is not the way to do it. I worked at a doctors office for years. If you are not in the field you have no clue the stress they are under, mostly talking about surgeons.

  • alexevans21 said... (original post)

    Big pharma. Private insurance. Federal government. People in suits (Hospital administration) trying to tell people with white coats (providers) how to do their job. People who abuse the system. I could go on and on.

    Who has taken money from big pharma? Trump or Hillary? I'm not saying I'm a fan of either. I actually think we could do a lot better than both, but in this area Hillary has, Trump hasnt. Prove me wrong if you don't believe me. If you can then I will admit I'm wrong.