Class of 2019 Thoughts

Class of 2019 Thoughts

  • Obviously will make the edit once the class is full. And I will also add any potential transfers. But so far, this class is excellent. Haters will disagree, but the fact is this is on pace for the highest rated (By average) recruiting class in Illini history. And it fits perfectly with what they have. I assume they will add a few more big pieces. The names have been discussed ad nauseum. But I'll stick to who they have right now.

    - QB Isaiah Williams - Talk about size all you want, that's all you can say. I'm not concerned about it at all. Elite athlete, especially laterally. Elite competitor. Elite leader. Stronger arm than you think. Accurate as well especially on deep throws, and with touch. People will talk about moving him to WR but this is a generational type of QB for the Illini and he will lead them to a lot of big wins. It was bs that they took his 5 stars away but he will show sooner than later. Got him over anybody you can name. I have high opinions of the QB's on campus, and to say Williams could still start next year should tell you all you need to know.

    - RB Kyron Cumby - Elite speed. I was extremely hyped when the got him for a few reasons. First off he's a very good RB and can catch the ball out of the backfield. Could project to slot as well and is often seen on Twitter working on his routes. Just get him the ball. 10.38 100 speed as a junior in HS. That's world class speed and it translates to the field. Cumby is very Barry Sanders like. It will be interesting to see how much weight he could hold but he will be absolutely dynamic. Was great to win out over Texas Tech (Where his father played), Colorado and others.

    - RB Nick Fedanzo - I thought he was good based on his junior film. Good size at 6'0, 200, good speed and one cut ability. Also shows soft hands. His senior film is even better and shows more burst as he is returning kicks and routinely breaking off big runs. Very good evaluation by the staff (Heard that before) and a pretty good fit for the system. Could potentially put up big numbers but will be a contributor regardless.

    - WR AD Miller (Transfer) - Physically impressive WR but also explosive. Illini haven't had a WR at this size with this explosion in a while. Very nice addition on the transfer market to go with Smalling. Will also help tremendously on the perimeter blocking which was a strength of the WR last season.

    - WR Casey Washington - Some are down on him and rate him low, but I like Washington. Big target. Shows good athleticism. But the biggest two things are he shows very good route running and very good hands. Solid, solid pickup and I expect him to be a nice player for the Illini. Actually would not be surprised if he is one of those stat monsters at WR. He was going on a tear with games like 15 plus receptions and 180 plus yards. I also like when the Illini get legacy players elsewhere, and they have several here.

    - TE Luke Ford (Transfer) - The big man finally is where he should be. Yet another tremendous addition this offseason by the staff. We all know the backstory and all, but the bottom line is the Illini are getting a premier type of TE, possibly their best TE prospect ever (He'll be up there). I think he's a Jason Witten type who will be playing football for a long time. Tremendous get to bring him back home and put him in this offense. He and Barker will be quite a duo at TE.

    - TE Griffin Moore - Good athlete with some size. Projects as a nice TE IMO who you can run trick plays, etc. with as he is a good QB. Also potential to be a very good blocker with his size. I liked this pickup a lot. Will fit very nicely in the system and offers position flexibility if TE doesn't work out.

    - OL Evan Kirts - A lot of people compare him to Palcho. I don't think people understand just how good Palcho is (Another excellent evaluation), so if Kirts is that good, all well. Another very good evaluation regardless though. Tough, tough OL. Can move and hit moving targets. Long arms. Only thing is just to see how much weight he will put on. OL is in tremendous shape moving forward so he will have time to develop.

    - DE Moses Okpala - One of the biggest ceiling players in the country. Manchild who is a legit 6'6-6'7, and extremely long arms. He might be 275+ before he even hits campus. Solid athleticism and plays angry. It was huge to get some more big DE who can set the edge like Okpala this class, and to do it out of St. Louis over Mizzou, MSU, NW and a host of others was huge. Could also play inside and out as he continues to grow. High ceiling as a OL as well, but I'm keeping him on defense.

    - DE Keith Randolph - Great in-state pickup on signing day over Michigan State, Florida State, Iowa and others. Like Okpala, extremely high ceiling guy, one of the highest at his position and nationally. He could get bigger and play inside or out. Long, relentless motor, great natural strength and agile. I think he could be a monster either at DE or DT, but I'm leaning towards DT. Either way just a tremendous grab and sets the DLine up to be among the best in the country very soon. Austin Clark has to love his job here. No wonder he turned down USC.

    - DE Seth Coleman - Man, they've done it again 3 years in a row (Gay, Holmes, Coleman). I'm just glad they held on, because Coleman might be the best of them. Soph film showed some things, but he really came on his senior year. Big frame to add weight, but he is an absolutely special athlete. He will be a big deal after his time is over with for the Illini. He's a Derrick Thomas type pass rusher. Yes I said it. Watch out for Coleman. It's great that A) You can redshirt with 4 games played and B) He has the luxury to be able to redshirt. But he will be a BIG deal sooner than later. Had to beat out Utah, FSU and others at the end for him. Big, big time get.

    - LB Shammond Cooper - Big time 4 star get at a position of need. Offers from Clemson, Oklahoma, Texas, Notre Dame you name them, he more than likely got it. Long, rangy LB who is physical but very technical about the position. Really good speed for the position but instincts make him that much faster. People harp on weight but he was listed at 210 at the Under Armour AA game and with the way the staff sets up the players, I would be he is at or close to 220 by the time the season rolls around. Exactly the type of LB they need and they continue to add premier prospects all around the roster.

    - LB Tarique Barnes - Liked this one a lot. Has legit 4.6 speed and will hit you. Not the tallest LB but looks to be able to grow into a very good run and hit B1G LB. Got him over multiple P5 offers as well out of Memphis. Nice late addition. 10.8 100 meter speed. Keep noticing a trend here?

    - DB Marquez Beason - What more can I say? The article I recently linked just makes him even more of a favorite. But on the field? The Illini probably got the best CB in the country who is also an elite WR as well. Shut down guys left and right at camps all offseason. Extremely confident. And also was resonsible for locking down the 5 star WR Wease after he looked like he was going to go crazy in the game to help advance his team to state. Elite athlete who the Illini basically beat out everybody for. You name them, they beat them. Out of Texas no less. Gives them another true lockdown CB with Hobbs. I expect Beason to start immediately. He is that good, and will be a legend for the Illini. Can't wait to see him at WR and returning punts as well. He will get a ton of hype.

    - DB Joseph Thompson - Has grown to 6'0. I already thought he was a pretty good player, but this development is a nice surprise. Scrappy player with very good athleticism. Offers position versatility in the defensive backfield as well. Out of Chicago and the CPL so that's another big plus. Really like Thompson.

    Overall this class just adds splash and fits perfectly with what they are building. This team will easily win 7-8+ plus games next season IMO, and this class is a big reason why. They have both immediate impact guys and talented guys who will add immediate depth, and some guys who long term will be very good. I can't wait to see who else they add. I will update as it goes. And even better? 2020 sets up to be a MONSTER, an even better class. They will definitely win.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BTgTHwum6yQ

    https://soundcloud.com/col-wight/skillz-sing

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSkUBQizkgU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7INzJ_nYJZw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKVaf8e0Y34

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ECpoByEMjc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTRWq_n7ivQ

    https://www.datpiff.com/Skillz-Corleone-Col-Wight-MOB-Shit-EP-mixtape.850882.html

    http://www.datpiff.com/Skillz-Corleone-Col-Wight-MOB-Shit-2-EP-mixtape.865874.html

    https://www.datpiff.com/Col-Wight-Year-One-mixtape.868672.html

    This post was edited by ILLINIMAN39 7 months ago

  • Discussion
  • i've seen this posted a lot -- "highest rated class in Illinois history" -- and the following is worth noting.

    247's player ratings have gone up over the past 15 years.

    In 2000, for example, hardly any class had an average rating over 80.0. In 2007 -- the year of Zook's first breakout class -- the #1 recruiting class in the country had an average rating of 89.45, and only a few schools had average rating above 90. USC was really the exception during those years, hauling in classes of 93 or above.

    Fast forward to now, and every class in the top-14 is at 90.0 or above. Penn State has an average rating this year of 92+, and they're the #10 class.

    So, that metric is a bit misleading.

    This is a quality class, mostly because we have some good playmakers. But this class -- as it currently stands -- is in no way on par with 2007 or 2008. Those classes were ranked higher -- both in terms of overall ranking, and where their average ratings placed them in comparison to the rest of the Big Ten.

    The 2019 class is somewhere around #7-8 in the Big Ten in terms of average rating. I'd be willing to bet that the 2007-2008 classes were in the top 4-5 in the Big Ten for average ratings.

    Can't look at this class in a vacuum. Where it stands vis-a-vis previous Illinois classes is less relevant than where it stands vis-a-vis other CURRENT Big Ten classes. When you figure average rating and overall depth, we're probably somewhere around #10-11 in the conference.

    A positive step forward, but let's not exaggerate.

    This post was edited by RecruitingIsFluid 9 months ago

  • RecruitingIsFluid said... (original post)

    i've seen this posted a lot -- "highest rated class in Illinois history" -- and the following is worth noting.

    247's player ratings have gone up over the past 15 years.

    In 2000, for example, hardly any class had an average rating over 80.0. In 2007 -- the year of Zook's first breakout class -- the #1 recruiting class in the country had an average rating of 89.45, and only a few schools had average rating above 90. USC was really the exception during those years, hauling in classes of 93 or above.

    Fast forward to now, and every class in the top-14 is at 90.0 or above. Penn State has an average rating this year of 92+, and they're the #10 class.

    So, that metric is a bit misleading.

    This is a quality class, mostly because we have some good playmakers. But this class -- as it currently stands -- is in no way on par with 2007 or 2008. Those classes were ranked higher -- both in terms of overall ranking, and where their average ratings placed them in comparison to the rest of the Big Ten.

    The 2019 class is somewhere around #7-8 in the Big Ten in terms of average rating. I'd be willing to bet that the 2007-2008 classes were in the top 4-5 in the Big Ten for average ratings.

    Can't look at this class in a vacuum. Where it stands vis-a-vis previous Illinois classes is less relevant than where it stands vis-a-vis other CURRENT Big Ten classes. When you figure average rating and overall depth, we're probably somewhere around #10-11 in the conference.

    A positive step forward, but let's not exaggerate.

    Great post. I've noticed this as well. The services are rating more kids each year and it floods the market with more kids rated at each level (3, 4 and 5 stars). Hard to compare 2019 to a 2005 class due to the volume of kids being rated.

  • RecruitingIsFluid said... (original post)

    i've seen this posted a lot -- "highest rated class in Illinois history" -- and the following is worth noting.

    247's player ratings have gone up over the past 15 years.

    In 2000, for example, hardly any class had an average rating over 80.0. In 2007 -- the year of Zook's first breakout class -- the #1 recruiting class in the country had an average rating of 89.45, and only a few schools had average rating above 90. USC was really the exception during those years, hauling in classes of 93 or above.

    Fast forward to now, and every class in the top-14 is at 90.0 or above. Penn State has an average rating this year of 92+, and they're the #10 class.

    So, that metric is a bit misleading.

    This is a quality class, mostly because we have some good playmakers. But this class -- as it currently stands -- is in no way on par with 2007 or 2008. Those classes were ranked higher -- both in terms of overall ranking, and where their average ratings placed them in comparison to the rest of the Big Ten.

    The 2019 class is somewhere around #7-8 in the Big Ten in terms of average rating. I'd be willing to bet that the 2007-2008 classes were in the top 4-5 in the Big Ten for average ratings.

    Can't look at this class in a vacuum. Where it stands vis-a-vis previous Illinois classes is less relevant than where it stands vis-a-vis other CURRENT Big Ten classes. When you figure average rating and overall depth, we're probably somewhere around #10-11 in the conference.

    A positive step forward, but let's not exaggerate.

    It's no exaggeration at all. People keep bringing up 2007 but plenty of those guys never made it or flamed out. Same with 2008 (Although better, and I was the first one calling it on how historic that class was for UI). 2017 they brought in some studs and plenty underrated studs (Palcho, Roundtree and Hobbs are all 1st round/early round picks, among others). 2018 they brought in even more including two 1st/early round DT's in Calvin Avery and Verdis Brown. That was more of a balanced class although as we've seen they have excellently evaluated there as well. 2019 brings even more starpower and impact players/a ton of potential. Rankings or not, I'm telling you, And they're not done.

  • I'd rather have the negative nancys than this hyperbolic nonsense. We got Beason & Williams who are terrific additions. We got some 3 star players who hopefully pan out. In what way is this the best recruiting class ever?

  • We add Cooper, Ford, JT and Miller, and this is a pretty damn good class. Would be good to have a few more O-Linemen, but given the #'s available and our recent history this was pretty solid.

  • We still need a quality QB - JC or 5th year.

    Only Rivers has experience and that isnt much. 2019 success will depend on getting experienced passer or Rivers improves a lot.

    This post was edited by illtex 9 months ago

  • ILLINIMAN39 said... (original post)

    It's no exaggeration at all. People keep bringing up 2007 but plenty of those guys never made it or flamed out. Same with 2008 (Although better, and I was the first one calling it on how historic that class was for UI). 2017 they brought in some studs and plenty underrated studs (Palcho, Roundtree and Hobbs are all 1st round/early round picks, among others). 2018 they brought in even more including two 1st/early round DT's in Calvin Avery and Verdis Brown. That was more of a balanced class although as we've seen they have excellently evaluated there as well. 2019 brings even more starpower and impact players/a ton of potential. Rankings or not, I'm telling you, And they're not done.

    Huh?

    Rankings aren't based on whether a kid makes it or flames out. It's based entirely on that prospect's scouting report BEFORE they start their college career. So, saying that this is a better class than 2007-2008 because a lot of those kids didn't make it or live up to their potential is a fallacy.

    On paper, the 2007-2008 classes were far above this 2019 class. There is no Arrelious Benn equivalent in this class. No Martez Wilson or Corey Liuget on the defensive side of the ball. And not nearly as much depth.

    The very top of this class compares favorably to anybody in the Big Ten outside of Penn State, Ohio State, and Michigan. But this class is lacking depth, and it's lacking 4* talent beyond the two 2 or 3 players. Those 2007-2008 class lacked neither of those attributes.

    I won't even engage on the "all these guys are going to be 1st round draft picks" hyperbole, because.....well......we've been down this road repeatedly. The difference in talent between our top-tier guys and the top-tier guys at PSU, OSU, and Michigan is pretty extreme -- and not even all of their studs are early round draft picks.

    This post was edited by RecruitingIsFluid 9 months ago

  • RecruitingIsFluid said... (original post)

    Huh?

    Rankings aren't based on whether a kid makes it or flames out. It's based entirely on that prospect's scouting report BEFORE they start their college career. So, saying that this is a better class than 2007-2008 because a lot of those kids didn't make it or live up to their potential is a fallacy.

    On paper, the 2007-2008 classes were far above this 2019 class. There is no Arrelious Benn equivalent in this class. No Martez Wilson or Corey Liuget on the defensive side of the ball. And not nearly as much depth.

    The very top of this class compares favorably to anybody in the Big Ten outside of Penn State, Ohio State, and Michigan. But this class is lacking depth, and it's lacking 4* talent beyond the two 2 or 3 players. Those 2007-2008 class lacked neither of those attributes.

    I won't even engage on the "all these guys are going to be 1st round draft picks" hyperbole, because.....well......we've been down this road repeatedly. The difference in talent between our top-tier guys and the top-tier guys at PSU, OSU, and Michigan is pretty extreme -- and not even all of their studs are early round draft picks.

    Someone better warn Bama!!

  • jacktotherack said... (original post)

    Someone better warn Bama!!

    Added Thomas. I don't care who you are. People better watch out for the Illini. Quickly becoming the fastest and most athletic team in the B1G. Not to mention the biggest and toughest on both sides in the trenches (Oh they're athletic too with NFL monsters on both sides).

    This post was edited by ILLINIMAN39 9 months ago

  • ILLINIMAN39 said... (original post)

    Added Thomas. I don't care who you are. People better watch out for the Illini. Quickly becoming the fastest and most athletic team in the B1G. Not to mention the biggest and toughest on both sides in the trenches (Oh they're athletic too with NFL monsters on both sides).

    39, don’t mind your endless optimism on everything UI. PSU, OSU, Mich landing such players as well. We’ve got a ways to go before top teams will quake. Got to give our freshmen/sophomores time to mature. & for this class to even find their room and classes.

  • SWIllini said... (original post)

    39, don’t mind your endless optimism on everything UI. PSU, OSU, Mich landing such players as well. We’ve got a ways to go before top teams will quake. Got to give our freshmen/sophomores time to mature. & for this class to even find their room and classes.

    Great players yeah no doubt but do you understand how many of those guys get bumps simply because they committed to those places? Illini are putting in real work getting top players and now that 2017 is finally maturing as juniors/RS soph, you'll see exactly what I mean. There aren't many schools getting this type of talent and more specifically this type of real life speed. There will not be many, if any teams who will be able to keep up with the Illini here soon. They are getting fast guys and they're starting to get FAST FAST guys, like Olympic fast guys. And it translates to the field which is the big difference.

  • Also just wanted to add that the big difference is they have gotten more good players but the depth gap is closing very fast here. At the top the Illini are there with anyone in the B1G especially as they continue to add guys here and potentially add Ford. That's another huge one.

  • ILLINIMAN39 said... (original post)

    Great players yeah no doubt but do you understand how many of those guys get bumps simply because they committed to those places? Illini are putting in real work getting top players and now that 2017 is finally maturing as juniors/RS soph, you'll see exactly what I mean. There aren't many schools getting this type of talent and more specifically this type of real life speed. There will not be many, if any teams who will be able to keep up with the Illini here soon. They are getting fast guys and they're starting to get FAST FAST guys, like Olympic fast guys. And it translates to the field which is the big difference.

    Edit: see post below.

    But your note about how the big programs get bumps for their recruits is not accurate. As a PSU grad student (and Illinois undergrad alum), I follow their recruiting closely. And very few of their kids have gotten any meaningful post-commitment bumps. Keaton Ellis and Taquon Roberson are probably the only ones -- going from high 3* recruits to low 4* recruits. But mostly because Ellis had a monster year, and Roberson really impressed at various QB camps.

    Talented kids go to big time programs. Period. Those programs don't need post-recruitment bumps to haul in highly ranked classes.

    This post was edited by RecruitingIsFluid 9 months ago

  • ILLINIMAN39 said... (original post)

    Also just wanted to add that the big difference is they have gotten more good players but the depth gap is closing very fast here. At the top the Illini are there with anyone in the B1G especially as they continue to add guys here and potentially add Ford. That's another huge one.

    Not even close.

    Look at the 2018-2019 classes combined -- essentially, the core of what will be next year's team and the year or two after that.

    Illinois has zero 5* recruits. Penn State has 4. Ohio State has 6. Michigan has 1.

    Illinois has 4 4* recruits. Penn State has 28. Ohio State has 28. Michigan has 22.

    Illinois' top ranked 2019 recruit is Isaiah Williams. PSU, OSU, and Michigan have 10 kids combined ranked higher than him.

    Illinois' top ranked 2018 recruit was Calvin Avery. PSU, OSU, and Michigan had 31 kids combined ranked higher than him.

    Our talent at the top is not even close to what the top of the Big Ten boasts. Our depth is not even close to what the top of the Big Ten boasts.

    But the goal shouldn't be to match PSU, OSU, and Michigan. It should be to match the likes of Wisconsin, Iowa, and NW. And that's an attainable goal in the recruiting front -- it then becomes a matter of translating that to the field. This class is a nice step forward, but it still lacks the depth needed to consistently compete with the upper tier of the Big Ten West. String together a few good classes, and then we might have something.

    This post was edited by RecruitingIsFluid 9 months ago

  • RecruitingIsFluid said... (original post)

    Not even close.

    Look at the 2018-2019 classes combined -- essentially, the core of what will be next year's team and the year or two after that.

    Illinois has zero 5* recruits. Penn State has 4. Ohio State has 6. Michigan has 1.

    Illinois has 4 4* recruits. Penn State has 28. Ohio State has 28. Michigan has 22.

    Illinois' top ranked 2019 recruit is Isaiah Williams. PSU, OSU, and Michigan have 10 kids combined ranked higher than him.

    Illinois' top ranked 2018 recruit was Calvin Avery. PSU, OSU, and Michigan had 31 kids combined ranked higher than him.

    Our talent at the top is not even close to what the top of the Big Ten boasts. Our depth is not even close to what the top of the Big Ten boasts.

    But the goal shouldn't be to match PSU, OSU, and Michigan. It should be to match the likes of Wisconsin, Iowa, and NW. And that's an attainable goal in the recruiting front -- it then becomes a matter of translating that to the field. This class is a nice step forward, but it still lacks the depth needed to consistently compete with the upper tier of the Big Ten West. String together a few good classes, and then we might have something.

    What I'm saying is it means nothing. It's all about evals. Bobby Roundtree wasn't even ranked in the top 1000. He will be the best pass rusher in the B1G next year. Hobbs wasn't either besides a late bump by what was then Scout. Might be the best CB in the conference. Palcho might have been ranked around 1500 and he is the best OT in the conference next year. Among his challengers? His own teammates Lowe and Boyd. Lowe wasnt top 1000 either I believe. Boyd was a high 3 star who honestly should've been high 4. This is what I mean. And they continue to add dominant players and absolute speed demons. There has never at any point even Zook days been an Illini team being built like this. And when you see these NFL drafts start to roll around you will see exactly what I mean with these evaluations.

    Also they've been stringing together very good classes which is why this stuff is about to start coming to fruition. Piece by piece adding good players and depth and now continuing to add more and more absolutely special real impact players on top. They have it in the trenches. They are continuing to add it elsewhere. It's going to be ridiculous.

    This post was edited by ILLINIMAN39 9 months ago

  • ILLINIMAN39 said... (original post)

    What I'm saying is it means nothing. It's all about evals. Bobby Roundtree wasn't even ranked in the top 1000. He will be the best pass rusher in the B1G next year. Hobbs wasn't either besides a late bump by what was then Scout. Might be the best CB in the conference. Palcho might have been ranked around 1500 and he is the best OT in the conference next year. Among his challengers? His own teammates Lowe and Boyd. Lowe wasnt top 1000 either I believe. Boyd was a high 3 star who honestly should've been high 4. This is what I mean. And they continue to add dominant players and absolute speed demons. There has never at any point even Zook days been an Illini team being built like this. And when you see these NFL drafts start to roll around you will see exactly what I mean with these evaluations.

    You're still drinking way too much Kool Aid.

  • jms397 said... (original post)

    You're still drinking way too much Kool Aid.

    Name where I'm wrong. I was the main one telling people how good those classes were especially 08. And I used to only think how dominant those teams and classes would have been had gotten guys they were in on/there wasn't so much attrition not to mention guys never making it in period. Big difference is they are getting in AND staying under this staff. And the evaluation is even better than the Zook days. There wasn't the built in advantages which is why they haven't seen as many highly rated guys yet but as you can see those relationships and all that ground work from the mud continue to grow. I repeat there has NEVER been an Illini team being built the way this one is right now under Smith. They will be in the playoffs very soon especially if they get some of these 2020 guys to go with who they are getting.

    And nothing I said about the current players isn't true.

  • 2019 will give the Illini guys that have been through the grinder as players. All the early playing time should help during the 19 season. Maybe they were not 4-5 stars, but the experience they have gained will surely help. Do high school star rating matter when you are a junior or red-shirt sophomore? I do not care about stars, I want to see a good game each week that the Illini are playing in. Getting Thomas on the field will help a great deal. Eifler as a linebacker will shore up the lack of depth at that position. I do agree that our Oline and Dline will be better on the field. I still believe that the first game will tell a whole lot. We got Akron at home. I hope we go 3-0 to start. It will help the attitude and moral of the team. What really hurt in 18 was the guys who were not playing and got in trouble. They were three starters. Go Illini beat Missery.

  • One thing people are forgetting (and I was one of them for a while) is we have a really good LB that sat out (transfer from Washington). Add that to next year, along with Brown and others that sat this year, and we have improved greatly.

  • ILLINIMAN39 said... (original post)

    Name where I'm wrong. I was the main one telling people how good those classes were especially 08. And I used to only think how dominant those teams and classes would have been had gotten guys they were in on/there wasn't so much attrition not to mention guys never making it in period. Big difference is they are getting in AND staying under this staff. And the evaluation is even better than the Zook days. There wasn't the built in advantages which is why they haven't seen as many highly rated guys yet but as you can see those relationships and all that ground work from the mud continue to grow. I repeat there has NEVER been an Illini team being built the way this one is right now under Smith. They will be in the playoffs very soon especially if they get some of these 2020 guys to go with who they are getting.

    And nothing I said about the current players isn't true.

    For one, you're dismissing the scouting services -- and their rankings -- and suggesting that "it means nothing". But then, you state that "scouting is what matters". How do you think they arrive at their rankings, exactly?

    Now, is every kid thoroughly and accurately scouted? Of course not. And even if they were, they will always be surprises. There will always be diamonds in the rough that overachieve, and blue chippers that flop.

    But you're merely dismissing the scouting services for your own opinion because it's convenient to your narrative. And the track record of those scouting services vs. your assessments is pretty clear. You know this.

    And how can you say that the difference between these classes and the 2007-2008 classes is that the kids are staying this time around? How do you even know that? These kids haven't even enrolled in classes yet!

    "They will be in the playoffs very soon". And here we go again.

    This post was edited by RecruitingIsFluid 9 months ago

  • RecruitingIsFluid said... (original post)

    Huh?

    Rankings aren't based on whether a kid makes it or flames out. It's based entirely on that prospect's scouting report BEFORE they start their college career. So, saying that this is a better class than 2007-2008 because a lot of those kids didn't make it or live up to their potential is a fallacy.

    On paper, the 2007-2008 classes were far above this 2019 class. There is no Arrelious Benn equivalent in this class. No Martez Wilson or Corey Liuget on the defensive side of the ball. And not nearly as much depth.

    The very top of this class compares favorably to anybody in the Big Ten outside of Penn State, Ohio State, and Michigan. But this class is lacking depth, and it's lacking 4* talent beyond the two 2 or 3 players. Those 2007-2008 class lacked neither of those attributes.

    I won't even engage on the "all these guys are going to be 1st round draft picks" hyperbole, because.....well......we've been down this road repeatedly. The difference in talent between our top-tier guys and the top-tier guys at PSU, OSU, and Michigan is pretty extreme -- and not even all of their studs are early round draft picks.

    Also just coming back to this post...rankings wise no. But they got one of the best and arguably the most exciting QB in the country in Williams. They got a guy who isn't as physically developed as Martez was (Why he was 5 stars) but Coleman is every bit that type of player. And he will actually be used the way we thought Tez would/he won't be forced to play MLB due to depth issues/lack of playmakers (Which to Martez credit he did develop nicely, a testament to his athleticism). What will be interesting is how fast he puts that weight. An underrated thing with this staff (And credit to the players) is they really lay out a plan for guys to get here prepared physically. Perfect example is Roundtree who was listed as no bigger than 220 on recruiting sites but showed up 245 looking like an NFL prospect. Coleman is only 205 or so I believe right now but he has an elite frame to get up to 245 plus easily. I'm telling you he is Derrick Thomas.

    Beason is the equivalent of a Tez or Benn as he should be a five star CB. And has 10.46 speed (As a junior). When have they ever had that type of speed? He's definitely the equivalent. Pure excitement. No Liuget yet but if Randolph and Okpala both grow into DT you will definitely have two of the best around. They got those type last year in Avery and Brown
    You have already seen Avery and he will only become more dominant with a year in. Wait until you see Brown. And as great as Liuget was the difference is these guys were naturally DT's not grown from DE. They are already well north of 300. You will not be able to double them and they can beat them regardless. Other teams are not getting these types of players but it will be apparent very soon. Heck you continue to add guys for this class and it could get really interesting next season. Like undefeated going into the mich game.

    This post was edited by ILLINIMAN39 9 months ago

  • RecruitingIsFluid said... (original post)

    For one, you're dismissing the scouting services -- and their rankings -- and suggesting that "it means nothing". But then, you state that "scouting is what matters". How do you think they arrive at their rankings, exactly?

    Now, is every kid thoroughly and accurately scouted? Of course not. And even if they were, they will always be surprises. There will always be diamonds in the rough that overachieve, and blue chippers that flop.

    But you're merely dismissing the scouting services for your own opinion because it's convenient to your narrative. And the track record of those scouting services vs. your assessments is pretty clear. You know this.

    And how can you say that the difference between these classes and the 2007-2008 classes is that the kids are staying this time around? How do you even know that? These kids haven't even enrolled in classes yet!

    "They will be in the playoffs very soon". And here we go again.

    Not recruiting site scouting where they give bumps to teams with the most subscribed fanbase, etc. I'm talking coach scouting. There are very few if any in college football with the eyes of this staff. You're starting to see this more and more as many of their commits and evals continue to blow. And I meant both classes he has had to date. All those guys have made it in. Very few are gone. 2019 will be more of the same. They are building something absolutely special here.

  • ILLINIMAN39 said... (original post)

    Also just coming back to this post...rankings wise no. But they got one of the best and arguably the most exciting QB in the country in Williams. They got a guy who isn't as physically developed as Martez was (Why he was 5 stars) but Coleman is every bit that type of player. And he will actually be used the way we thought Tez would/he won't be forced to play MLB due to depth issues/lack of playmakers (Which to Martez credit he did develop nicely, a testament to his athleticism). What will be interesting is how fast he puts that weight. An underrated thing with this staff (And credit to the players) is they really lay out a plan for guys to get here prepared physically. Perfect example is Roundtree who was listed as no bigger than 220 on recruiting sites but showed up 245 looking like an NFL prospect. Coleman is only 205 or so I believe right now but he has an elite frame to get up to 245 plus easily. I'm telling you he is Derrick Thomas.

    Beason is the equivalent of a Tez or Benn as he should be a five star CB. And has 10.46 speed (As a junior). When have they ever had that type of speed? He's definitely the equivalent. Pure excitement. No Liuget yet but if Randolph and Okpala both grow into DT you will definitely have two of the best around. They got those type last year in Avery and Brown

    You have already seen Avery and he will only become more dominant with a year in. Wait until you see Brown. And as great as Liuget was the difference is these guys were naturally DT's not grown from DE. They are already well north of 300. You will not be able to double them and they can beat them regardless. Other teams are not getting these types of players but it will be apparent very soon. Heck you continue to add guys for this class and it could get really interesting next season. Like undefeated going into the mich game.

    Goodness. This post is something else.

    Saying that the #1780 recruit in the 2019 class -- with an offer from only 1 top-25 team -- is "Derrick Thomas" is precisely why your reputation lives well beyond the reaches of this board. So, honest question. If all the recruiting services and virtually all the coaching staffs from top-25 programs missed the next Derrick Thomas, then how did you identify it? And if you have this special skill that few others have, I hope you're putting it to use beyond chatter on a message board.

    This post was edited by RecruitingIsFluid 9 months ago

  • RecruitingIsFluid said... (original post)

    Goodness. This post is something else.

    Saying that the #1780 recruit in the 2019 class -- with an offer from only 1 top-25 team -- is "Derrick Thomas" is precisely why your reputation lives well beyond the reaches of this board. So, honest question. If all the recruiting services and virtually all the coaching staffs from top-25 programs missed the next Derrick Thomas, then how did you identify it? And if you have this special skill that few others have, I hope you're putting it to use beyond chatter on a message board.

    We will see.

  • Lets just win first.....before the whole team becomes first round draft picks in 2020.