Michigan vs Texas Tech

Michigan vs Texas Tech

  • a 3!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Officially the worst half and worst game Michigan has ever played in the tournament.

    Hats off to the players, coaches, and Beilein for an outstanding first half of the season.

    Between Basketball and Football, I am not sure which program had the more disappointing end to the season.

    I fully expect next year to be a better team:
    -If Teske improves by the same amount as he did over this past offseason, he will be a force.
    -Simpson needs to just work on a shot so he is at least a threat.
    -Poole needs to watch 2-3 million hours of basketball footage so his brains match his potential/skillset.
    -Iggy needs to get some ability to dribble.
    -The bench will be better next year.

    This post was edited by Michfan777 1 year ago

  • Good season fellas. Have a good night.

  • Michfan777 said... (original post)

    Every player *and coach* should be ashamed of this performance and hang their heads low. This performance comes close to negating any positive this season from my POV.

    At the end of the game when the announcers are talking about how this game doesn't take away from Michigan's great season all I could think was, no, this absolutely ruins the season. If we had lost by 1-7 points maybe not, but losing like that absolutely destroys the entire season. The only possible bright side is that maybe it was so embarrassing it convinces Matthews and Iggy to stay, but at the same time maybe it was so embarrassing that it convinces them to leave.

  • bacon1431 said... (original post)

    People are flipping out over this season, but one more win (against MSU in reg season finale or BTT) and people are still fairly satisfied. We’ve made three straight Sweet 16s. Each of the last two years we’ve lost two of our better players. The program is in a place where we expect to hang banners. This game sucks donkey ass but we missed having a very good season by a razor’s edge. That’s how it goes sometimes.

    If we had lost by single digits I think you could say we missed having a very good season by razors edge. 0-3 vs MSU, and a total and utter embarrassment in the sweet 16, I don't think that means we were a razors edge away from a good season. After starting 17-0 with big wins against villanova and UNC, I think we all expected an elite 8 run, that was before going 0-3 against MSU, which might have tempered our expectations, but maybe chalk that up to a match up and I don't think anyone saw ending the season like this happening.

  • I think i will have to lean football, but I could be convinced. I blame Harbaugh for both teams struggles, not seriously, but I'm upset and have to blame someone.

  • Salute to our Wolverine basketball players.

    Tonight wasn't our night. It happens.

    I'm glad for a great season overall and looking forward to next March! thumbsup

  • tdschef247 said... (original post)

    If we had lost by single digits I think you could say we missed having a very good season by razors edge. 0-3 vs MSU, and a total and utter embarrassment in the sweet 16, I don't think that means we were a razors edge away from a good season. After starting 17-0 with big wins against villanova and UNC, I think we all expected an elite 8 run, that was before going 0-3 against MSU, which might have tempered our expectations, but maybe chalk that up to a match up and I don't think anyone saw ending the season like this happening.

    It is a razors edge because if we beat MSU twice in the last two, we raise two banners. But we have 0 because we blew leads against them. It is what it is.

  • bacon1431 said... (original post)

    Frustrating game, but you knew it could happen. We don’t have the shooting this year to stretch the floor and open things up on offense. It’s been that way all season. Last year we had two 40% shooters in the lineup in Moe and Duncan. That’s the difference for offense. JB didn’t suddenly not become an offensive guru.

    For next year, we need Poole (or Iggy) to become a secondary distributor. We will be a better shooting team because Matthews will be gone and Teske will have another offseason improving his shot. But we need someone else to be able to dissect a defense. Simpson can do it against a lot of teams but not against teams that are great at switching 1-5.

    The issue is JB has his offense, and with the right players it can be good. But he never adapts. If he doesn’t have what he needs, or guys aren’t shooting well from outside we’re done. Look at duke over the years, look at the Izzo teams, they adapt what they do from year to year, and are better at adapting for their players. Teske has turned into a real nice center, but we use him like will still have Horford and Morgan playing center. Credit where it’s due, this team was a mess and now we’re winning 25 plus games a year (30 the last two) winning games in the tournament, next year should be good, and I get all that. But I feel like we will always be limited offensively because we only know one system.

    This post was edited by corby78 1 year ago

  • tdschef247 said... (original post)

    At the end of the game when the announcers are talking about how this game doesn't take away from Michigan's great season all I could think was, no, this absolutely ruins the season. If we had lost by 1-7 points maybe not, but losing like that absolutely destroys the entire season. The only possible bright side is that maybe it was so embarrassing it convinces Matthews and Iggy to stay, but at the same time maybe it was so embarrassing that it convinces them to leave.

    Where would iggy be going?

  • corby78 said... (original post)

    The issue is JB has his offense, and with the right players it can be good. But he never adapts. If he doesn’t have what he needs, or guys aren’t shooting well from outside we’re done. Look at duke over the years, look at the Izzo teams, they adapt what they do from year to year, and are better at adapting for their players. Teske has turned into a real nice center, but we use him like will still have Horford and Morgan playing center. Credit where it’s due, this team was a mess and now we’re winning 25 plus games a year (30 the last two) winning games in the tournament, next year should be good, and I get all that. But I feel like we will always be limited offensively because we only know one system.

    This is a ridiculous, tire fire hot take. JB has changed his offense multiple times since coming to Michigan. Look at the Manny Harris team. Darius Morris team. Burke teams. Stauskas/Levert teams. Walton team. Moe team. The core concepts were often the same, but we changed how often and the ways we used ball screens, off ball screens, ISO play, how we used the bigs etc. We don’t utilize Teske like a traditional post player because that’s inefficient. Look at modern basketball. There’s a handful of post players that play like that across the country. We do need to work on feeding Teske on switches. But that’s different

    And this is literally the first year that Izzo has adapted from what he usually does. Izzo teams - year after year - are traditionally a speed em up, get out in transition, force turnovers run run run team. And when they were in the half court, they would feed the post. This year, he eased back into the half court game because Ward got hurt and he realized he had an amazing PG in Cassius Winston. That is why they are a national title contender. Izzo has been prone to stubbornness in style of play. He did an amazing job this season.

    Our offense struggled this year because of personnel. We have no ISO player that can take advantage of switches or force the defense to spread out. Burke, Stauskas, Levert and Walton could do that. Even MAAR could do it in a limited way. Simpson can’t because nobody has to respect his shot. He’s great at PnR, but when teams switch we struggle because he can’t take too many players one on one. We need Poole, DDJ or Iggy to become an ISO player. I’m not optimistic about the latter because he could go pro and even if he doesn’t, he’s shown no proclivity to pass the ball. DDJ or Poole could become that player. Poole has shown it at times, but has to become consistent. DDJ has a good off the dribble jumper and was a very good ISO player in HS. Hopefully one of them takes a big jump forward.

  • The final straw with me on the offense:

    7'1" center has the ball literally under the hoop. Throws it out into the stands instead of going up strong.
    Yet same center who shoots 29% from 3 feels comfortable enough to pull the trigger twice from down town (and misses both).

    Something is just fundamentally wrong.

  • LLBlueJ said... (original post)

    The final straw with me on the offense:

    7'1" center has the ball literally under the hoop. Throws it out into the stands instead of going up strong.

    Yet same center who shoots 29% from 3 feels comfortable enough to pull the trigger twice from down town (and misses both).

    Something is just fundamentally wrong.

    He passed it out from less than 5 feet from the basket a couple times last night. You have to punish teams for switching and Teske didn’t. I’m sure that’ll be something they work on all offseason. I’m fine with him shooting as he shot an acceptable rate in conference play. I think he can still improve in that regard this offseason. He’ll never be Moe, but we don’t need him to be.

  • bacon1431 said... (original post)

    This is a ridiculous, tire fire hot take. JB has changed his offense multiple times since coming to Michigan. Look at the Manny Harris team. Darius Morris team. Burke teams. Stauskas/Levert teams. Walton team. Moe team. The core concepts were often the same, but we changed how often and the ways we used ball screens, off ball screens, ISO play, how we used the bigs etc. We don’t utilize Teske like a traditional post player because that’s inefficient. Look at modern basketball. There’s a handful of post players that play like that across the country. We do need to work on feeding Teske on switches. But that’s different

    And this is literally the first year that Izzo has adapted from what he usually does. Izzo teams - year after year - are traditionally a speed em up, get out in transition, force turnovers run run run team. And when they were in the half court, they would feed the post. This year, he eased back into the half court game because Ward got hurt and he realized he had an amazing PG in Cassius Winston. That is why they are a national title contender. Izzo has been prone to stubbornness in style of play. He did an amazing job this season.

    Our offense struggled this year because of personnel. We have no ISO player that can take advantage of switches or force the defense to spread out. Burke, Stauskas, Levert and Walton could do that. Even MAAR could do it in a limited way. Simpson can’t because nobody has to respect his shot. He’s great at PnR, but when teams switch we struggle because he can’t take too many players one on one. We need Poole, DDJ or Iggy to become an ISO player. I’m not optimistic about the latter because he could go pro and even if he doesn’t, he’s shown no proclivity to pass the ball. DDJ or Poole could become that player. Poole has shown it at times, but has to become consistent. DDJ has a good off the dribble jumper and was a very good ISO player in HS. Hopefully one of them takes a big jump forward.

    I completely disagree, I have watched every JB team and as you said the style of play was the same. We don’t pick and roll enough, we don’t go inside out enough, our high post is our center outside the three point line, and it’s been that way every year. Now credit to JB he has gotten better players to fit his system and it’s produced better results. But if you don’t have a Mitch McGary to bail out a bad shooting night you need to have more options. I believe we can do more with our tallent, we would see glimpses of it from time to time then we went back to passing it around with no cuts and chucking a late three because nobody could get around their man.

    Next year should be better, I think we will be improved and I’m not calling this a bad year, it wasn’t. I just think if JB could expand his offensive style he would be one of the best coaches in the country.

    This post was edited by corby78 1 year ago

  • corby78 said... (original post)

    I completely disagree, I have watched every JB team and as you said the style of play was the same. We don’t pick and roll enough, we don’t go inside out enough, our high post is our center outside the three point line, and it’s been that way every year. Now credit to JB he has gotten better players to fit his system and it’s produced better results. But if you don’t have a Mitch McGary to bail out a bad shooting night you need to have more options. I believe we can do more with our tallent, we would see glimpses of it from time to time then we went back to passing it around with no cuts and chucking a late three because nobody could get around their man.

    Next year should be better, I think we will be improved and I’m not calling this a bad year, it wasn’t. I just think if JB could expand his offensive style he would be one of the best coaches in the country.

    Don’t PnR enough? Simpson-Teske PnR bailed us out a ton this season. We were an average shooting team that won 30 games off the back of great defense and Simpson finding Teske and others off ball screens. That bailed us out of a ton of mediocre shooting nights. If you were watching, you weren’t paying attention. Sorry, PnR has been a major part of JB’s offense under Morris and Burke. His first couple years, we didn’t run a ton of ball screens. Nor did he at WVU. It’s been a major adjusted under JB.

    Hard to run cuts and backdoors when teams are switching on screens and they don’t have to respect our shooting and can pack it in.

  • bacon1431 said... (original post)

    He passed it out from less than 5 feet from the basket a couple times last night. You have to punish teams for switching and Teske didn’t. I’m sure that’ll be something they work on all offseason. I’m fine with him shooting as he shot an acceptable rate in conference play. I think he can still improve in that regard this offseason. He’ll never be Moe, but we don’t need him to be.

    I don't have a problem with him shooting from outside. I have a problem with the mentality.

  • I don't know if the reduced shot clock time hurt JB's offense, but our offense summarized seems to be:

    Simpson dribbling almost as much as James Harden.
    Teske clogging the lane, posting up with a player behind him, when we rarely throw it to him or he rarely finishes with a guy on his back.
    Poole and Iggy using jabs and stepback that don't go anywhere.
    And everyone just standing.

    We used to have so much more motion up out of the corners and along the baseline and ran multiple ball-screen actions. Now by the time we walk down the floor, the shot clock is down to 20. Simpson dribbles around, now it's down to 10, we pull it back and run a ball screen. No one has moved from their original spots until the final "set" is run.

  • LLBlueJ said... (original post)

    I don't know if the reduced shot clock time hurt JB's offense, but our offense summarized seems to be:

    Simpson dribbling almost as much as James Harden.

    Teske clogging the lane, posting up with a player behind him, when we rarely throw it to him or he rarely finishes with a guy on his back.

    Poole and Iggy using jabs and stepback that don't go anywhere.

    And everyone just standing.

    We used to have so much more motion up out of the corners and along the baseline and ran multiple ball-screen actions. Now by the time we walk down the floor, the shot clock is down to 20. Simpson dribbles around, now it's down to 10, we pull it back and run a ball screen. No one has moved from their original spots until the final "set" is run.

    Part of the stagnation on offense is that the motions are triggered by what the PG does. And because we really only do ball screen action with Simpson, the options are limited. JB values spacing above all and with the interior already clogged because we are running ball screens and the defense not having to respect Simpson's jumper, I'm sure JB doesn't want to bring more defenders inside with cuts.

    Offense will be vastly improved if we shoot better and if we have an ISO player. I'm pretty confident that we will shoot better because Matthews will be departed, which means more playing time for Livers. Poole will shoot better next year. Simpsons is what he is. I think Teske grows more comfortable shooting. And DDJ will probably play more next season and he's a good shooter. Just didn't get a chance to show it. Iggy's shooting will get better with better shot selection if he returns. And one of Johns, Nunez, Wilson and Bajema will be getting a good amount of playing time. Bajema and Nunez were dead eye shooters in HS, Johns and Wilson are solid in that area. Obviously it's a projection because they haven't proven it at this level.

    As for an ISO/additional ball screen player? Poole is the best bet. He's shown hints at it in his two years here. But he's gotta make that jump like Stauskas did. He absolutely can. Will he? Who knows. DDJ could also be that player. I'm really bullish on him. He's a Derrick Walton clone IMO. But idk if next year is the year he becomes Walton.

  • bacon1431 said... (original post)

    Don’t PnR enough? Simpson-Teske PnR bailed us out a ton this season. We were an average shooting team that won 30 games off the back of great defense and Simpson finding Teske and others off ball screens. That bailed us out of a ton of mediocre shooting nights. If you were watching, you weren’t paying attention. Sorry, PnR has been a major part of JB’s offense under Morris and Burke. His first couple years, we didn’t run a ton of ball screens. Nor did he at WVU. It’s been a major adjusted under JB.

    Hard to run cuts and backdoors when teams are switching on screens and they don’t have to respect our shooting and can pack it in.

    Your right when they did it, it worked. Teske isn’t a still he can do it, but it was far and few between. If the ball screen gets switched then take advantage of the mismatch. MSU destroyed us because we couldn’t do that. I wanted more of it with Morgan too. I’m glad JB went and got help on defense, it was improved, I feel he needs to be more flexible on offense. You and I have disagreed on this multiple times no sense in rehashing it again.

    I’m looking forward to next year. Teske should be a major threat and Castleton should be improved and be able to give him meaningful rest during a game. We will miss Mathews on D, but Poole and Livers should be better along with Iggy. Not sure Simpson will ever be the offensive threat Burke was, but he is a leader and hopefully he doesn’t need to score much. I think Dejulius will take a step forward and if Wilson can contribute we could have a nice bench. Still not sure where the shooting will come from unless Poole becomes more consistent. But we should be good again and I’m looking forward to it

  • corby78 said... (original post)

    Your right when they did it, it worked. Teske isn’t a still he can do it, but it was far and few between. If the ball screen gets switched then take advantage of the mismatch. MSU destroyed us because we couldn’t do that. I wanted more of it with Morgan too. I’m glad JB went and got help on defense, it was improved, I feel he needs to be more flexible on offense. You and I have disagreed on this multiple times no sense in rehashing it again.

    I’m looking forward to next year. Teske should be a major threat and Castleton should be improved and be able to give him meaningful rest during a game. We will miss Mathews on D, but Poole and Livers should be better along with Iggy. Not sure Simpson will ever be the offensive threat Burke was, but he is a leader and hopefully he doesn’t need to score much. I think Dejulius will take a step forward and if Wilson can contribute we could have a nice bench. Still not sure where the shooting will come from unless Poole becomes more consistent. But we should be good again and I’m looking forward to it

    They've been working on the post feed off the pick switches, but it only works so much. Teske also was clearly uncomfortable posting up smaller players. That's his biggest focus this offseason. If he can do that effectively, then it takes away team's switching. Or at the very least, it opens up other offense when they do switch.

    If Iggy returns, I'm pretty optimistic about shooting. Poole will bounce back shooting next year IMO. Iggy shot almost 40% from 3 and that's with a ton of step backs. He might shoot 40% next year, but I don't see him drifting too far down the 30s. I feel comfortable with Teske shooting around 33% from 3. That's a good number for him to aim for. For the rest of the team, the shooting could be there. It is just a matter of those players doing enough other things to get on the floor. Wilson, Bajema, Johns, DDJ, Brooks, and Nunez all possess shooting talent. But they've got to offer enough other things to see the floor.

  • Michfan777 said... (original post)

    Unless their goal is to play in europe for a few years before maybe getting to the D league, most of those guys would be dumb to leave. Pool and Iggy are the only ones with any potential NBA future, and both would be mid 2nd rounders at best.

    Exactly. I don't know if Iggy has first-round potential but Poole definitely does, would be foolish to go.

  • bacon1431 said... (original post)

    Part of the stagnation on offense is that the motions are triggered by what the PG does. And because we really only do ball screen action with Simpson, the options are limited. JB values spacing above all and with the interior already clogged because we are running ball screens and the defense not having to respect Simpson's jumper, I'm sure JB doesn't want to bring more defenders inside with cuts.

    Offense will be vastly improved if we shoot better and if we have an ISO player. I'm pretty confident that we will shoot better because Matthews will be departed, which means more playing time for Livers. Poole will shoot better next year. Simpsons is what he is. I think Teske grows more comfortable shooting. And DDJ will probably play more next season and he's a good shooter. Just didn't get a chance to show it. Iggy's shooting will get better with better shot selection if he returns. And one of Johns, Nunez, Wilson and Bajema will be getting a good amount of playing time. Bajema and Nunez were dead eye shooters in HS, Johns and Wilson are solid in that area. Obviously it's a projection because they haven't proven it at this level.

    As for an ISO/additional ball screen player? Poole is the best bet. He's shown hints at it in his two years here. But he's gotta make that jump like Stauskas did. He absolutely can. Will he? Who knows. DDJ could also be that player. I'm really bullish on him. He's a Derrick Walton clone IMO. But idk if next year is the year he becomes Walton.

    I totally agree - I'd just think for here and now (or there and then at this point...) that we'd see more motion since the standing around gig didn't net much. Our defense got us 30 wins. Our lack of offense cost us banners. I would have thought we'd try something different.

    It'll be interesting to see over the next 2 years as Simpson/Teske/Matthews leave if the new wave can keep the defensive ability up while adding the much much needed shooting.

  • corby78 said... (original post)

    Your right when they did it, it worked. Teske isn’t a still he can do it, but it was far and few between. If the ball screen gets switched then take advantage of the mismatch. MSU destroyed us because we couldn’t do that. I wanted more of it with Morgan too. I’m glad JB went and got help on defense, it was improved, I feel he needs to be more flexible on offense. You and I have disagreed on this multiple times no sense in rehashing it again.

    I’m looking forward to next year. Teske should be a major threat and Castleton should be improved and be able to give him meaningful rest during a game. We will miss Mathews on D, but Poole and Livers should be better along with Iggy. Not sure Simpson will ever be the offensive threat Burke was, but he is a leader and hopefully he doesn’t need to score much. I think Dejulius will take a step forward and if Wilson can contribute we could have a nice bench. Still not sure where the shooting will come from unless Poole becomes more consistent. But we should be good again and I’m looking forward to it

    Teske’s next step is to stop playing below the rim. I think that’s why he misses so many close shots. If you watch when he goes for a close range shot, he almost looks like a guard laying it up off the glass instead of using his big frame to attack the rim. He doesn’t go up strong unless he plans to dunk it. But he made so much progress this season and did things that I didn’t think he could do, so I can’t be mad at the big fella.