Next year's roster

Next year's roster

  • Any predictions on attrition, transfers, additions?

    My uneducated guesses would be:

    Matthews is 99% gone. Where he ends up long term is anyone's guess, but mine would be the G league.

    Iggy - 65% gone. Has more pro upside than Matthews and is already 20 years old. Not sure it helps him to play in college any longer. Probably only hurts his stock.

    Davis - Transfer. Just a guess. He seems to be the odd man out and haven't seen any real development. If he still wants to play college basketball, he should look elsewhere.

    As far as additions, I would love to see a Duncan Robinson type transfer. Not that we need to look at Div III, but just someone to step in and be a deep threat. This roster, while much better defensively, just has no good shooters other than Iggy and Livers. Need a real deep threat from the guard and small forward positions. He wouldn't need to be a great ball handler. We have enough ball handlers now, and just not enough shooters.

    What say you?

  • Discussion
  • Only issue with Davis transferring is if he has graduated or not. If he is going to graduate this spring or summer, he could transfer to another school without sitting and have two years of eligibility left. If he has not graduated, it doesn't make sense for him to transfer because he'd have to sit out a year to play a year. Might as well sit on the bench at Michigan this next year, get your degree and transfer without sitting out after next season. He's not going to play much, if at all next year. But it might not make sense for him to transfer at this point in time.

    As for Iggy and Poole, they may stay or they may go. Personally, seems like Poole is a more likely threat to leave than Iggy at this point in time. They should both go through the process IMO and find out where they stand. Make an informed decision after that. I have a hard time believing Iggy's stock will good.

  • Interesting that you think Poole is a threat to leave for the league. He didn't seem to wow me at any point this year. He got the keys to the car, but he seemed to lead the team in mistakes, settled for fade away (falling on his ass) threes, played the least aggressive defense on the team and just didn't take it to the level I expected.

    Iggy has more of a euro game and an NBA body already. Poole has the body of a kid in 8th grade. Dude needs to bulk up about 15 lbs so he can actually get to the rim from time to time. Simpson gets to the rim because he's strong. Poole is a pin ball in the lane because his legs and arms are toothpicks. I don't see any of his game translating to the next level.

    Davis could use a year off to actually work on basketball stuff. Maybe he would be a solid player on another team by the time his 6 year rolls around. He was just a rare miss for Beilein. Teske actually developed a semi-respectable 3 ball, Davis can't shoot from 3 feet. A 130 lbs Castleton already took his job, so he may get pressure to move along.

    PG is the one position I have 0 concern with, which is nice.

  • BigTenPhan said... (original post)

    Interesting that you think Poole is a threat to leave for the league. He didn't seem to wow me at any point this year. He got the keys to the car, but he seemed to lead the team in mistakes, settled for fade away (falling on his ass) threes, played the least aggressive defense on the team and just didn't take it to the level I expected.

    Iggy has more of a euro game and an NBA body already. Poole has the body of a kid in 8th grade. Dude needs to bulk up about 15 lbs so he can actually get to the rim from time to time. Simpson gets to the rim because he's strong. Poole is a pin ball in the lane because his legs and arms are toothpicks. I don't see any of his game translating to the next level.

    Davis could use a year off to actually work on basketball stuff. Maybe he would be a solid player on another team by the time his 6 year rolls around. He was just a rare miss for Beilein. Teske actually developed a semi-respectable 3 ball, Davis can't shoot from 3 feet. A 130 lbs Castleton already took his job, so he may get pressure to move along.

    PG is the one position I have 0 concern with, which is nice.

    I think re: Poole the issue isn't as much should he go but rather does he want to stay? He's not meshed all that great with Beilein from what it sounds.

    We're currently 1 over the scholarship limit for next year so someone is going. I would guess Matthews since he was honored on Senior night. I would also guess Davis will stay but won't get a 5th year after next.

    Poole and Iggy have major things to work on. Defensively I don't see how either can defend at the next level. Even offensively they have work to do to get their own shot and be more consistent from deep.

    I hope Johns was okay playing the 5 this year but wonder how he'll transition from here forward.

  • BigTenPhan said... (original post)

    Interesting that you think Poole is a threat to leave for the league. He didn't seem to wow me at any point this year. He got the keys to the car, but he seemed to lead the team in mistakes, settled for fade away (falling on his ass) threes, played the least aggressive defense on the team and just didn't take it to the level I expected.

    Iggy has more of a euro game and an NBA body already. Poole has the body of a kid in 8th grade. Dude needs to bulk up about 15 lbs so he can actually get to the rim from time to time. Simpson gets to the rim because he's strong. Poole is a pin ball in the lane because his legs and arms are toothpicks. I don't see any of his game translating to the next level.

    Davis could use a year off to actually work on basketball stuff. Maybe he would be a solid player on another team by the time his 6 year rolls around. He was just a rare miss for Beilein. Teske actually developed a semi-respectable 3 ball, Davis can't shoot from 3 feet. A 130 lbs Castleton already took his job, so he may get pressure to move along.

    PG is the one position I have 0 concern with, which is nice.

    Poole has a much higher ceiling than Iggy. And the NBA is more than fine on taking potential over production. Iggy isn’t going to be able to stick in the NBA. He’s a solid shooter at that level. And that’s about it. I don’t know who he will defend. He won’t be able to drive against NBA defenders and has no passing ability that we have seen.

    Poole didn’t shoot well this year, but we know he has long range and is capable of shooting the lights out. He has the athleticism to be a good defender. He has also shown glimpses of being a capable distributor. The part of his game that needs the most work is the mental game.

    Yeah, Davis could use a year off to work on things so he could play elsewhere. The question is if he’s willing to sit out a year elsewhere to do that. JB isn’t going to force him out. JB can be frank with him about his situation but if the kid wants to stay, JB can’t make him go. If he can’t graduate by next fall, there’s no incentive for him to transfer.

  • Matthews could use another year to post some bigger numbers but he will go. Great guy but he is gone
    Poole and Iggy are classic cases of talented players who are not ready for prime time but get wooed by the money. I would hate to see them go and then end up sitting on a bench in the pros. This happens all the time. Players go too early and languish in the NBA for a couple years and then get cut. Better to stay and fully develop.

  • salient48 said... (original post)

    Matthews could use another year to post some bigger numbers but he will go. Great guy but he is gone

    Poole and Iggy are classic cases of talented players who are not ready for prime time but get wooed by the money. I would hate to see them go and then end up sitting on a bench in the pros. This happens all the time. Players go too early and languish in the NBA for a couple years and then get cut. Better to stay and fully develop.

    Matthews isn't going to increase his stock. He's been out of high school for four years. He is what he is. His stock didn't increase this past year.

    If you get a guaranteed contract, it's the smart decision to go. Do you think you can develop better in college where you have limited practice time, resources as well as classes and other school related things to do with or will you develop better in the NBA or G League where your life is basketball 24/7 and if you're a draft pick, the organization has a significant vested interest in your development? People overrate how much you develop in college vs NBA. Staying isn't all about development. It's about increasing your draft stock and getting paid. Obviously development has a part in that. But you can also develop and decrease your stock.

  • Some pretty good points made.

    If guys like Iggy and Poole aren't worried about school, then that will end up being a major factor. I thought I recall Poole being all academic B1G the last couple years, but I could be mistaken. If he was, then that decision would be tough, even though I don't think he's anywhere near NBA level in any way.

    Iggy was always considered a 1 or 2 year player to me. If we get a 2nd year out of him, that's fine. I actually think he could step into the next level much easier than Poole. He has the body. He can shoot. He can put it on the floor pretty well for his size. Poole couldn't even drive to the basket against lower end B1G teams. That's alarming to me.

    The key will be filling Matthews spot with a pure shooter as Livers should be taking his spot back in the starting rotation if Iggy's bails.

  • If Matthews is the only one leaving...
    Teske - Castleton - Davis
    Livers - Johns
    Brazdeikas - Wilson - Bajema
    Poole - Brooks - Nunez
    Simpson - DeJulius

    That's some really good depth. I'd love to know how/where Johns and Nunez will fill in and what Wilson can bring to the team next year.

  • Matthews, Poole and Iggy have all declared for the draft and retaining agents. New rules dictate that that's not a for sure sign they're leaving. Matthews is definitely gone though. Poole and Iggy could come back if they get bad feedback from the NBA advisory committee. Iggy's wording makes it sound like he's good as gone. Poole seemed unhappy after the loss to Tech and his dad was upset on twitter and made it sound like a change would be good. I'm feeling less than 50% chance that either of them come back.

    Luckily we have some options in the fold.

  • If all 3 leave...I think we're going to struggle for sure which would be expected. If we can just keep Poole I'd be a lot more comfortable. I'd hope Johns or Nunez or Wilson could step up to help fill Iggy's loss.

  • LLBlueJ said... (original post)

    If all 3 leave...I think we're going to struggle for sure which would be expected. If we can just keep Poole I'd be a lot more comfortable. I'd hope Johns or Nunez or Wilson could step up to help fill Iggy's loss.

    If all of them leave, next year would be a team that would get much better throughout the year. But nonconference would be rough.

    I think Iggy is for sure gone. In which case, let’s get Franz Wagner. If Poole leaves, hopefully we can get Quinones or Beverly. Both would be major coups this late in the recruiting game

  • bacon1431 said... (original post)

    If all of them leave, next year would be a team that would get much better throughout the year. But nonconference would be rough.

    I think Iggy is for sure gone. In which case, let’s get Franz Wagner. If Poole leaves, hopefully we can get Quinones or Beverly. Both would be major coups this late in the recruiting game

    Oh yeah I totally forgot there's still some guys unsigned. I think I read Quinones is coming for a visit soon too - I was thinking he was a 2020 guy but if we can get him for next year that'd be great.

  • I get iggys....age is a factor for him. I guess because he's older he seems more ready to leave. His game didn't reflect that imo. Way to inconsistent air balls constantly.

    Poole? First year starter.... now leaving? I just don't get it... Europe is always there I just don't see why kids are in a rush.

    I agree matthews has probably done all he can. Yet if he locked down a consistent jump shot I think he would increase his stock.

  • Barringer19_Scout said... (original post)

    I get iggys....age is a factor for him. I guess because he's older he seems more ready to leave. His game didn't reflect that imo. Way to inconsistent air balls constantly.

    Poole? First year starter.... now leaving? I just don't get it... Europe is always there I just don't see why kids are in a rush.

    I agree matthews has probably done all he can. Yet if he locked down a consistent jump shot I think he would increase his stock.

    If he hasn’t significantly improved his jumper in four years of college, he’s not going to do it for year five.

  • Out of the 3, Poole is the easiest to replace. He literally bogs down the offense when he gets the rock, while playing very little defense. Dude has talent, but he prefers to play Hero/ISO ball and that doesn't work in Beilein's system very well. I think Brooks would step in just fine and actually get you more dribble penetration than Poole did.

    Iggy and Matthews were the 2 guys who could get you a bucket at the end of the shot clock or to stop an opponents run and are the only 2 guys with a decent mid range game. That will be tricky to replace.

  • While I don't blame anyone for trying to cash in on their talents, I really can't stand this time of the year for college players.

    This is where they (rightfully so) test the waters, and the crooked NBA scouts hand out about like 75 "low 1st round/early 2nd round" grades, knowing that most of the guys they give that info to will never play meaningful minutes in the league. Such a disservice to the game and players. If CJ Baird threw his hat into the ring, he would get a low first round/early 2nd round grade. It's a joke.

    To me, Matthews has hit his ceiling, but will never pan out in the NBA. He's basically Glenn Robinson with a worse offensive game and less athleticism. GRIII went in the 2nd round and is barely clinging on to an NBA roster. If GRIII wasn't on a bad team like the Pistons, he wouldn't see the court.

    Iggy has a unique game. He is already built well. He is a good outside shooter at 6'7", which is a must in the NBA. He can finish with either hand, which is a nice skillset to have at the next level. He will stick in the league for a bit.

    Poole is a dime a dozen player in my opinion. He's thin and soft. Flops like nobody else (perhaps a plus in the nba, lol) and doesn't seem interested in playing defense. Both Michigan and Texas Tech played great defense this year. Texas Tech just played defense at a bit higher of a level. The difference between Michigan's and Texas Tech's defense was Jordan Poole. He was the weak link and it wasn't even close.

    Overall, I would give Iggy a grade between 25-30. Lower first round because of his skill set. I would grade Matthews at a lower 2nd round to undrafted. If GRIII went at #40, then Matthews would be at least 10 spots lower in my mind. I would tell Poole to come back when you gain 15 lbs of muscle and show interest in attacking the basket and playing defense. He really does nothing particularly well other than make an occasional wide open 3.

    What I expect to happen is all 3 get grades that they don't warrant and at least 2 of them will regret their decisions if they enter the draft.

    This post was edited by BigTenPhan 9 months ago

  • BigTenPhan said... (original post)

    Out of the 3, Poole is the easiest to replace. He literally bogs down the offense when he gets the rock, while playing very little defense. Dude has talent, but he prefers to play Hero/ISO ball and that doesn't work in Beilein's system very well. I think Brooks would step in just fine and actually get you more dribble penetration than Poole did.

    Iggy and Matthews were the 2 guys who could get you a bucket at the end of the shot clock or to stop an opponents run and are the only 2 guys with a decent mid range game. That will be tricky to replace.

    Iggy and Matthews couldn't get their own bucket at the end of the shot clock. They're catch and shoot jumpers or straight line drivers with no ability to pass. Opponents pretty much know what they're going to do. Iggy could maybe develop some vision and passing ability, but we never saw a hint of it. I think Poole is the potential biggest loss because he has the most potential of the three (why I think he's the best NBA prospect as well). And we lacked an ISO player, which we've had before in MAAR, Caris, Stauskas, and Burke. That's what you have to have late in the shot clock. We didn't have any options. It was ball screens with Simpson and Teske which resulted in a PnR, PnP, Simpson hook or dish out to the perimeter with Matthews, Poole or Iggy shooting or driving off of that. You need an ISO guy late in the shot clock. Poole's problem was he was awful in deciding what to do and when to do it. He bogged down the O because he was indecisive. He's shown flashes of doing a bit of everything, but never put it together consistently. Which isn't all that shocking considering he's just a true sophomore and young for his class. I was hoping for a Stauskas like jump for Poole, but it didn't happen.

    I view Iggy and Matthews generally the same in the NBA. High floor, low ceiling players. They're obviously different in skill set, but their potential is limited. If Matthews could figure out his jumper, I think he'd be able to stick around the league for a long time because his defense is already at an NBA level. But I'm not all that optimistic about his jumper. Iggy's jump shot looks pretty good on catch and shoot. Did much better this year than I would have thought coming in. But I don't think he'll be able to drive as much in the NBA as he can in college. And while his D in college was very good for a freshman, I'm just not sure who he guards in the NBA.

    Poole is all potential. But that potential could keep him on an NBA roster for a while. He's the most likely to be drafted and most likely to be on an NBA roster 3-4 years from now. He's a boom or bust prospect

  • Possibly a nice drawing card for Poole to stay is more offensive opportunities. With the others presumably gone, that's around 20 shot attempts per game leaving.

    It could be an 18-20ppg year for him.

  • bacon1431 said... (original post)

    Iggy and Matthews couldn't get their own bucket at the end of the shot clock. t

    I disagree. I am not saying they were excellent at it, but they were the only ones who could. Matthews would pull off his post up fadeaway, which he developed nicely since last year and Iggy would at least get to the lane and draw a foul if not finish. Poole would jab step himself to death then intentionally fall down on his ass. I don't see the same things you do, but that's cool.

    While I could barely see Matthews playing a similar role as GRIII, and I could see Iggy playing 10 minutes a night as a smaller, poor mans Sabonis, I literally cannot see a role for Poole on any NBA team. He's not a PG in any fashion, he's waaaaay to frail to be a #2 and has no ball skills, strength or defensive ability. I cannot even find someone in the league to compare him to, because they don't play guys with his lack of ability. He's a nice college player because you can get away with lack of size and strength at that level. Not in the NBA

    This post was edited by BigTenPhan 9 months ago

  • BigTenPhan said... (original post)

    I disagree. I am not saying they were excellent at it, but they were the only ones who could. Matthews would pull off his post up fadeaway, which he developed nicely since last year and Iggy would at least get to the lane and draw a foul if not finish. Poole would jab step himself to death then intentionally fall down on his ass. I don't see the same things you do, but that's cool.

    While I could barely see Matthews playing a similar role as GRIII, and I could see Iggy playing 10 minutes a night as a smaller, poor mans Sabonis, I literally cannot see a role for Poole on any NBA team. He's not a PG in any fashion, he's waaaaay to frail to be a #2 and has no ball skills, strength or defensive ability. I cannot even find someone in the league to compare him to, because they don't play guys with his lack of ability. He's a nice college player because you can get away with lack of size and strength at that level. Not in the NBA

    They couldn’t though. That is why our offense struggled. Most of Iggy and Charles’ drives we’re off kick outs. Neither of them got a lot of iso opportunities as wings rarely get those opportunities in JB’s offense. Matthews shot his fade away a lot. It was also inefficient in almost every game. That doesn't count as “getting your own shot” if it’s unreliable and inefficient. You or I could do that.

  • Mathews gone, and as said before, he has peaked here so its not surprising.

    Iggy gone, I honestly don't see him sticking to a team, just not consistent enough, and when he is up to guys just as big and athletic I don't see his drive getting him over the top.

    Poole gone, this really bugs me because he isn't ready, but he just doesn't have the heart to stay. I would put money he doesn't get a snif of a call on draft night.

    All three leave and none stick in the NBA. Its life in college ball right now and it kinda sucks. But with Europe and the G league now giving more options to actually get paid and not have to go to class, its not a surprise.

  • corby78 said... (original post)

    Mathews gone, and as said before, he has peaked here so its not surprising.

    Iggy gone, I honestly don't see him sticking to a team, just not consistent enough, and when he is up to guys just as big and athletic I don't see his drive getting him over the top.

    Poole gone, this really bugs me because he isn't ready, but he just doesn't have the heart to stay. I would put money he doesn't get a snif of a call on draft night.

    All three leave and none stick in the NBA. Its life in college ball right now and it kinda sucks. But with Europe and the G league now giving more options to actually get paid and not have to go to class, its not a surprise.

    I could see all three getting drafted, but I have a hard time seeing any of them on an NBA roster next year. I'd take a flyer on Poole in the 40s and onward. He has alot of potential. But he's immature and inconsistent. Iggy is just a high floor, low ceiling. I just don't know what position he plays in the NBA. Not quick or athletic enough to guard most 3s or 4s in the league. On offense, he could be a useful player on the bench. But there's two ends to the court and while he was much better as a defender than I anticipated, effort can only go so far when there's athletic limitations.

    If Matthews could just shooting 35% from 3, he'd be in the league for a long time IMO. He's a heck of a defender. But he can't shoot and I'm having a hard time seeing him developing it. If it didn't happen in four years in college (three under JB), probably not happening as a pro.

  • Not trying to be "that guy" but I honestly don't care that Poole left. He's not a team player and never played within himself.

    I will miss Charles and Iggy

  • BooneWolverine said... (original post)

    Not trying to be "that guy" but I honestly don't care that Poole left. He's not a team player and never played within himself.

    I will miss Charles and Iggy

    I think we will miss his potential. Even though he fell off in the second half of the season, there was always a chance that Poole could explode for a spurt or a game and it takes us to the next level. Whoever gets his minutes isn't going to have that potential. But I don't think his departure is a death blow. Now, if Iggy also leaves, our ceiling and floor are significantly lowered next season. With Iggy, we are a conference and national title contender if players like DDJ and Johns develop or one of the freshmen is ready to contribute. Without him, and we've got an outside shot at the conference, but not going to be a nationally elite team. Our floor is also significantly lower.

  • If we all agree that Matthews is probably right to leave because another year in college isn't going to fix his limitations, then how the hell does Izzo once again get a guy like Winston to return? I mean, I see that he's not the quickest guy on the court, but he was in the conversation for national player of the year and played really well against some tough defenders. Dude put up 50 pts in the 2 regular season games against Michigan and Simpson and Michigan played some really good defense last year. He's not going to get super quick over night or grow 3 inches, so why come back?

    Sorry, but I get bitter when it seems like every decent player bails from Beilein at the first moment of an NBA whisper, and Izzo keeps guys who are better players for a year or 2 longer. I know that's not every case, but more times than not. I know NBA scouts look at a lot of things, but if I'm building an NBA team, I'll take a flier on Winston over Poole and Matthews 1000 times out of a 1000. Dude is a leader and very productive... and I hate MSU.