Welcome back Juwan!

Welcome back Juwan!

  • mgodude said... (original post)

    So let me coach them for a game. I love Michigan basketball...Granted, my inside game wasn't as good as Juwan''s, but I know people... hoops

    If you honestly felt good about his answer to the most basic question put to him at the presser about what type of of team he envisions as a Howard coached team, then I don't know what to tell ya. His answer should have been prepared, thoughtful, and inspiring. Instead, he punted, stating that he and he and his staff will figure it out. Are you kidding me? Who is leading whom? Does he even have a philosophy of coaching? If not, how long will it take to develop his brand, and is Michigan the place to do that on a rookie contract coming off of the high mark of the all time winningest coach in Michigan history? In the end, will it be Howard's brand or something conjured up for him by a hired gun assistant, who has had HC experience?

    As with so many failed coaches the excuse is that they weren't able to fully implement their plan before management and fans ran out of patience. The thing is, this team isn't down. How many are going to give him 3, 4 or 5 yrs years of a backwards slide for the sake of welcoming back the legend?

    By the way, I hope I'm dead wrong, but the presser was telling, and "logic" tells me Juwan looked like he won the lottery, and not at all HC ready.

    I'm gonna say you're a straight up troll. "Does he even have a philosophy of coaching"
    Let's see...that winningest coach you mentioned, what was his philosophy? When he came in, people said he was just going to get 3 point shooting white guys. That he'd never get top recruits. Then it morphed into getting top recruits, and athletes. It morphed from a lot of motion to pick and roll action. It changed from an offensive philosophy to defensive mindset. They figured out what worked.

    And if you act like he has no basketball knowledge just because he wasn't a head coach. That's the most moronic stance I've seen posted here in a long time. That's like saying only HC's have basketball knowledge. What a joke.

    Why are you ASSuming that we're going to have a backward slide? And that excuses are even going to be necessary. You're conjuring up your own strawman just to play the d*ck role.

  • I get some of what mgodude is saying, although I'm not as pessimistic about the hire. Warde came off as a dumbfuck who is just trying to win over alumni and increase donations. How can you be an athletic director of a major university and come off as someone who has never watched a basketball game before? I personally think Howard has SOME solid qualifications, but Manuel didn't seem to even worry about that. I honestly wonder how these "interviews" actually went. Did Warde just ask "on a scale of 1-10, how much do you love maize and blue?" Or "How many pairs of Michigan pajamas do you own?" If anything I am more sure that Warde is unqualified for his job than Howard.

    As far as Howard's press conference goes, I think it was fine. He was emotional and didn't dive into X's and O's which is fine. He probably hasn't even met every player and hasn't even finalized his coaching staff. Anything other than the generic "we will make you proud", "we will play hard and as a team" cliché b.s. would be disingenuous.

  • BigTenPhan said... (original post)

    I get some of what mgodude is saying, although I'm not as pessimistic about the hire. Warde came off as a dumbfuck who is just trying to win over alumni and increase donations. How can you be an athletic director of a major university and come off as someone who has never watched a basketball game before? I personally think Howard has SOME solid qualifications, but Manuel didn't seem to even worry about that. I honestly wonder how these "interviews" actually went. Did Warde just ask "on a scale of 1-10, how much do you love maize and blue?" Or "How many pairs of Michigan pajamas do you own?" If anything I am more sure that Warde is unqualified for his job than Howard.

    As far as Howard's press conference goes, I think it was fine. He was emotional and didn't dive into X's and O's which is fine. He probably hasn't even met every player and hasn't even finalized his coaching staff. Anything other than the generic "we will make you proud", "we will play hard and as a team" cliché b.s. would be disingenuous.

    This was never going to be a hire that checked all the boxes, regardless of who we got. Donovan was the #1 target, but it was still unlikely we would get him. Stevens, Bennett, Beard etc were always pipe dreams.

    Our candidates were Howard, Smart, Cooley and from there you're looking at mid major coaches with varying levels of success. I don't think Warde is the best AD out there, but I also don't think he handled this incompetently. It's a big risk to hire Howard. But his ceiling is also very very high. His floor is pretty low though. We could have gone with a higher floor, low ceiling candidate like Cooley or Smart, but I'm at peace with how it ended.

  • mgodude said... (original post)

    So let me coach them for a game. I love Michigan basketball...Granted, my inside game wasn't as good as Juwan''s, but I know people... hoops

    If you honestly felt good about his answer to the most basic question put to him at the presser about what type of of team he envisions as a Howard coached team, then I don't know what to tell ya. His answer should have been prepared, thoughtful, and inspiring. Instead, he punted, stating that he and he and his staff will figure it out. Are you kidding me? Who is leading whom? Does he even have a philosophy of coaching? If not, how long will it take to develop his brand, and is Michigan the place to do that on a rookie contract coming off of the high mark of the all time winningest coach in Michigan history? In the end, will it be Howard's brand or something conjured up for him by a hired gun assistant, who has had HC experience?

    As with so many failed coaches the excuse is that they weren't able to fully implement their plan before management and fans ran out of patience. The thing is, this team isn't down. How many are going to give him 3, 4 or 5 yrs years of a backwards slide for the sake of welcoming back the legend?

    By the way, I hope I'm dead wrong, but the presser was telling, and "logic" tells me Juwan looked like he won the lottery, and not at all HC ready.

    Howard could very well flame out here. He could very well be a great coach. Or he could be somewhere in the middle. None of it will be attributable to not stating his basketball philosophy at his introductory presser. Press conferences are useless BS with canned responses. Would it have been better if he said we would "play hard, play tough, get rebounds, and force turnovers"? That's essentially the extent of Xs and Os you get at press conferences like this. None of those platitudes tell us anything about a real philosophy. Tony Bennett said they would play hard and fast at Virginia and they play slower than a senior center rec league.

    Nothing Juwan said (unless he said something bigoted or insane) was going to sway anybody either way on this hire. If you were not on board with this hire, I don't see why the presser would make you think differently. I also don't think it should make you feel worse. It's a dumb presser. If you liked the hire to begin with, the presser shouldn't make you feel differently.

  • bacon1431 said... (original post)

    This was never going to be a hire that checked all the boxes, regardless of who we got. Donovan was the #1 target, but it was still unlikely we would get him. Stevens, Bennett, Beard etc were always pipe dreams.

    Our candidates were Howard, Smart, Cooley and from there you're looking at mid major coaches with varying levels of success. I don't think Warde is the best AD out there, but I also don't think he handled this incompetently. It's a big risk to hire Howard. But his ceiling is also very very high. His floor is pretty low though. We could have gone with a higher floor, low ceiling candidate like Cooley or Smart, but I'm at peace with how it ended.

    I think it's completely impossible to say what Howards floor and ceiling are because he has never coached a game in college. His floor could be rock bottom. His ceiling could be natty titles. I've come to accept the hire and am very interested and excited to see the next chapter of Michigan basketball. I do however think Manuel is a lazy Harbaugh fukboi who doesn't pay attention to anything but football.

    In fact, didn't Manuel say yesterday something like "I couldn't ask Beilein to stay, because he told me he already decided to go to the Cavs"? I mean, that is a colossal fuck up by an AD to not be in constant talks with the best hoops coach the program has ever seen. He literally let him go and didn't have a good enough relationship with JB to even see it coming. What a fuck up. Now we have a complete unknown to replace him. But hey, he loves Michigan, so that's good enough for Warde. Again, I want nothing more than Juwan to bring the program a shit ton of banners like Beilein did, but that doesn't mean Manuel hired him based on anything but straight fandom. It was a lazy hiring process, but that doesn't mean it can't/won't work in the long run.

  • BigTenPhan said... (original post)

    I think it's completely impossible to say what Howards floor and ceiling are because he has never coached a game in college. His floor could be rock bottom. His ceiling could be natty titles. I've come to accept the hire and am very interested and excited to see the next chapter of Michigan basketball. I do however think Manuel is a lazy Harbaugh fukboi who doesn't pay attention to anything but football.

    In fact, didn't Manuel say yesterday something like "I couldn't ask Beilein to stay, because he told me he already decided to go to the Cavs"? I mean, that is a colossal fuck up by an AD to not be in constant talks with the best hoops coach the program has ever seen. He literally let him go and didn't have a good enough relationship with JB to even see it coming. What a fuck up. Now we have a complete unknown to replace him. But hey, he loves Michigan, so that's good enough for Warde. Again, I want nothing more than Juwan to bring the program a shit ton of banners like Beilein did, but that doesn't mean Manuel hired him based on anything but straight fandom. It was a lazy hiring process, but that doesn't mean it can't/won't work in the long run.

    Good grief with all your knocking on Warde...just get it off your chest already and move on.

    I highly doubt you know ALL the details of the hiring process and who called those shots. Look at what we're paying Juwan! What homerun coach are you going to get with that?

  • LLBlueJ said... (original post)

    Good grief with all your knocking on Warde...just get it off your chest already and move on.

    I highly doubt you know ALL the details of the hiring process and who called those shots. Look at what we're paying Juwan! What homerun coach are you going to get with that?

    I honestly don't care how much we are paying him and if it wasn't Warde who called the shots, then he is even a bigger waste than I originally thought. If we went on the cheap, then that's another black mark on the athletic department and university. Money should not keep us from hiring anyone that we wanted. It's one of the richest Universities in the world, with some of the richest donors.

    The point is, Warde was too busy gaining another 100 lbs that after all these years, he didn't even establish enough of a relationship with the best basketball coach in the history of the program to get a heads up on him leaving. That is complete failure, no matter how much you want to ignore it. If he didn't have the energy or desire to have a bond with Beilein, then I have a hard time believing that he conducted a thorough search for his replacement. This program has been treated like a 3rd rate YMCA youth league, and I would bet some of this played into Beilein's departure.

  • mgodude said... (original post)

    So let me coach them for a game. I love Michigan basketball...Granted, my inside game wasn't as good as Juwan''s, but I know people... hoops

    If you honestly felt good about his answer to the most basic question put to him at the presser about what type of of team he envisions as a Howard coached team, then I don't know what to tell ya. His answer should have been prepared, thoughtful, and inspiring. Instead, he punted, stating that he and he and his staff will figure it out. Are you kidding me? Who is leading whom? Does he even have a philosophy of coaching? If not, how long will it take to develop his brand, and is Michigan the place to do that on a rookie contract coming off of the high mark of the all time winningest coach in Michigan history? In the end, will it be Howard's brand or something conjured up for him by a hired gun assistant, who has had HC experience?

    As with so many failed coaches the excuse is that they weren't able to fully implement their plan before management and fans ran out of patience. The thing is, this team isn't down. How many are going to give him 3, 4 or 5 yrs years of a backwards slide for the sake of welcoming back the legend?

    By the way, I hope I'm dead wrong, but the presser was telling, and "logic" tells me Juwan looked like he won the lottery, and not at all HC ready.

    Cool, so Juwan said everything we knew already? We knew he didn’t have any head coaching experience. We knew he has to learn the ins and outs of college basketball. Etc to everything else you wrote. I myself love the transparency and honesty. And I’m willing to give the guy a chance. He may bomb. He may do OK. Or he may be phenomenal. I’m giving him my full support until I see stuff to bitch about. None of us know what is going to happen except for you it seems.

  • LLBlueJ said... (original post)

    I'm gonna say you're a straight up troll. "Does he even have a philosophy of coaching"

    Let's see...that winningest coach you mentioned, what was his philosophy? When he came in, people said he was just going to get 3 point shooting white guys. That he'd never get top recruits. Then it morphed into getting top recruits, and athletes. It morphed from a lot of motion to pick and roll action. It changed from an offensive philosophy to defensive mindset. They figured out what worked.

    And if you act like he has no basketball knowledge just because he wasn't a head coach. That's the most moronic stance I've seen posted here in a long time. That's like saying only HC's have basketball knowledge. What a joke.

    Why are you ASSuming that we're going to have a backward slide? And that excuses are even going to be necessary. You're conjuring up your own strawman just to play the d*ck role.

    And I'm going to say you're a straight up revisionist lackey if you are implying that Beilein's strength was the fact that he has now been able to consistently sign top national recruits equal to other elite programs, I have to ask if you've even followed this team? It's not like Duke, KY, and KS or NC were busting down Iggy's, Teske's, Castleton's, or any of our recruits doors. You call these guys top athletes? Now THAT's one of the most moronic statements used to prop up a poor argument I've seen in a good long while.

    The thing is, Beilein came in with a track record as a HC, and outside of the X's and O's, he proved throughout his career that he could teach the game. He developed players consistently way beyond most coaches. Above and beyond that Beilein proved that he could adapt. He hired great young assistants with a purpose.

    All Howard would have had to say yesterday was; I'm looking for assistants that will do x,y,and z. I believe in this. He could have also said, we'll take a look at the coaching personnel we have, and see how the pieces fit. He could also have said that he has to look at the players he's inherited, and how to best utilize them going forward. We want to continue the development that coach Beilein has started, and possibly insert some of our own wrinkles that we feel will enhance the program. Or if he wants to blow it up, say he has some scheme changes in mind, but he'll keep that to himself for now, until his staff is in place. Instead, it looked like he got dropped in the cockpit of a 747 and was asked to land the plane.

    Like it or not, the 3rd most important duty for a HC is PR, and professional communications is huge. This team is likely to take a step back this coming year by the attrition we had and the overall stability of programs of MSU, OSU, and Indiana this coming year. This would have happened with or without Beilein. Michigan fans won't look kindly on a stammering coach who looks lost when pressed for answers in hard times.

  • mgodude said... (original post)

    And I'm going to say you're a straight up revisionist lackey if you are implying that Beilein's strength was the fact that he has now been able to consistently sign top national recruits equal to other elite programs, I have to ask if you've even followed this team? It's not like Duke, KY, and KS or NC were busting down Iggy's, Teske's, Castleton's, or any of our recruits doors. You call these guys top athletes? Now THAT's one of the most moronic statements used to prop up a poor argument I've seen in a good long while.

    The thing is, Beilein came in with a track record as a HC, and outside of the X's and O's, he proved throughout his career that he could teach the game. He developed players consistently way beyond most coaches. Above and beyond that Beilein proved that he could adapt. He hired great young assistants with a purpose.

    All Howard would have had to say yesterday was; I'm looking for assistants that will do x,y,and z. I believe in this. He could have also said, we'll take a look at the coaching personnel we have, and see how the pieces fit. He could also have said that he has to look at the players he's inherited, and how to best utilize them going forward. We want to continue the development that coach Beilein has started, and possibly insert some of our own wrinkles that we feel will enhance the program. Or if he wants to blow it up, say he has some scheme changes in mind, but he'll keep that to himself for now, until his staff is in place. Instead, it looked like he got dropped in the cockpit of a 747 and was asked to land the plane.

    Like it or not, the 3rd most important duty for a HC is PR, and professional communications is huge. This team is likely to take a step back this coming year by the attrition we had and the overall stability of programs of MSU, OSU, and Indiana this coming year. This would have happened with or without Beilein. Michigan fans won't look kindly on a stammering coach who looks lost when pressed for answers in hard times.

    Nope - missed the point. I said he was constantly changing. You wanted Howard to pin down a "philosophy". Who cares. Beilein didn't stick to one method. You seem to be one of the few that has an issue with Howard not sending you a playbook. I'd say most thought he did a fine job at the presser...which again...is just a freaking presser in MAY. Good grief.

    I think he was genuine and that's the most important part. Relationships are going to be key for him, not spewing out some clips or headlines to appease you or the media.

    You've got issues if THAT works you up.

  • BigTenPhan said... (original post)

    I think it's completely impossible to say what Howards floor and ceiling are because he has never coached a game in college. His floor could be rock bottom. His ceiling could be natty titles. I've come to accept the hire and am very interested and excited to see the next chapter of Michigan basketball. I do however think Manuel is a lazy Harbaugh fukboi who doesn't pay attention to anything but football.

    In fact, didn't Manuel say yesterday something like "I couldn't ask Beilein to stay, because he told me he already decided to go to the Cavs"? I mean, that is a colossal fuck up by an AD to not be in constant talks with the best hoops coach the program has ever seen. He literally let him go and didn't have a good enough relationship with JB to even see it coming. What a fuck up. Now we have a complete unknown to replace him. But hey, he loves Michigan, so that's good enough for Warde. Again, I want nothing more than Juwan to bring the program a shit ton of banners like Beilein did, but that doesn't mean Manuel hired him based on anything but straight fandom. It was a lazy hiring process, but that doesn't mean it can't/won't work in the long run.

    The entire athletic department - from its inception - has given more attention to football than any other sport because football makes more money than any other sport. It is like this at every school sans Duke, UNC and a few others. I do think JB was gone once he was offered and there was nothing we could do to keep him. I'm upset JB didn't have a buyout in his contract. I'm fine with critiquing Warde on something like that. I do think he could have cast a wider net. But a wider net means a more drawn out process. And a drawn out process this late is worse than a drawn out process in April IMO. He could have cast a wider net (which means midmajor coaches of varying levels of success and not a home run hire) and still ended up with Howard. He's a legitimate choice IMO.

    Howard's ceiling is high because he's going to, IMO, attract interest from alot of top recruits due to his youth, ability to connect with others, his relationships with several prominent NBA players of the youth's generation, and personality. And if you have good players, your ceiling is going to be pretty high. His floor is low because he has never been a HC and no experience as an assistant in college. He's a boom or bust IMO.

  • bacon1431 said... (original post)

    I do think he could have cast a wider net. But a wider net means a more drawn out process. And a drawn out process this late is worse than a drawn out process in April IMO. He could have cast a wider net (which means midmajor coaches of varying levels of success and not a home run hire) and still ended up with Howard. He's a legitimate choice IMO.

    very good point!

  • bacon1431 said... (original post)

    Howard's ceiling is high because he's going to, IMO, attract interest from alot of top recruits due to his youth, ability to connect with others, his relationships with several prominent NBA players of the youth's generation, and personality. And if you have good players, your ceiling is going to be pretty high. His floor is low because he has never been a HC and no experience as an assistant in college. He's a boom or bust IMO.

    Howard’s youngest son, Jett, could be a elite recruit by 2022...

  • LLBlueJ said... (original post)

    Nope - missed the point. I said he was constantly changing. You wanted Howard to pin down a "philosophy". Who cares. Beilein didn't stick to one method. You seem to be one of the few that has an issue with Howard not sending you a playbook. I'd say most thought he did a fine job at the presser...which again...is just a freaking presser in MAY. Good grief.

    I think he was genuine and that's the most important part. Relationships are going to be key for him, not spewing out some clips or headlines to appease you or the media.

    You've got issues if THAT works you up.

    I agree with this. You can't expect a first time head coach to be diagraming plays in his opening press conference. He's converting from the NBA to college which is night and day. The shot clock alone is an enormous difference and Beilein will have to adjust his philosophy for the NBA big time as well.

    Now, I am going to beat this dead horse one more time, haha. Warde Manuel was an embarrassment at the presser. He literally fucking said he doesn't know what a pick n roll is. Dude, you're 50 freaking years old and the athletic director at the University of fucking Michigan and you don't know one of the most simplistic terms of the 2nd biggest sport you're in charge of?? Not knowing what a pick n roll in basketball is, is like not knowing what a play action pass is in football. What an idiot. I coach youth bball leagues and these kids know what a pick n roll is by 3rd grade. This is the gosh damned athletic director at a major university. The same guy that was oblivious to Beilein leaving, even though he interviewed in the NBA just a year prior. Dude needs to spend less time at the end of Harbaugh's schlong and more time getting to know the programs he is in charge of. What a lazy buffoon.

    This post was edited by BigTenPhan 7 months ago

  • LLBlueJ said... (original post)

    Nope - missed the point. I said he was constantly changing. You wanted Howard to pin down a "philosophy". Who cares. Beilein didn't stick to one method. You seem to be one of the few that has an issue with Howard not sending you a playbook. I'd say most thought he did a fine job at the presser...which again...is just a freaking presser in MAY. Good grief.

    I think he was genuine and that's the most important part. Relationships are going to be key for him, not spewing out some clips or headlines to appease you or the media.

    You've got issues if THAT works you up.

    Missed the point? You seem to have not read my post, or are incapable of basic reading skills. You repeated exactly what I said about Beilein's ability to adapt. You left out his ability to teach.

    I have no idea where you get the idea that I was asking for a playbook, when I also specifically spelled out how Juwan could have handled the question about what his team would look like (without looking like my wife asked to explain a match-up zone)...There's a difference between philosophy and specifics. Too much nuance? Have you ever seen a presser where the new head coach for any sport HASN'T been asked that question? To not have a coherent answer in your pocket for that one isn't a good look for the new CEO.

    Still laughing about all of the top recruits Beilein signed...lol... Have a good weekend...

  • I think a couple posters had long weeks at work

  • mgodude said... (original post)

    Missed the point? You seem to have not read my post, or are incapable of basic reading skills. You repeated exactly what I said about Beilein's ability to adapt. You left out his ability to teach.

    I have no idea where you get the idea that I was asking for a playbook, when I also specifically spelled out how Juwan could have handled the question about what his team would look like (without looking like my wife asked to explain a match-up zone)...There's a difference between philosophy and specifics. Too much nuance? Have you ever seen a presser where the new head coach for any sport HASN'T been asked that question? To not have a coherent answer in your pocket for that one isn't a good look for the new CEO.

    Still laughing about all of the top recruits Beilein signed...lol... Have a good weekend...

    No - because 99.99% of people DONT CARE about content in an introduction press conference. Except you apparently. That's just a whole new level of pettiness.

    If we're skipping around our arguments...let's step back and take a look at your previous comments as well then.
    "He doesn't have a clue what he's in for." - you don't know that.
    "this team needs a proven CEO, not Tommy Boy." - that's just a d*ck comment.

    Have a good weekend trolling.

  • LLBlueJ said... (original post)

    No - because 99.99% of people DONT CARE about content in an introduction press conference. Except you apparently. That's just a whole new level of pettiness.

    If we're skipping around our arguments...let's step back and take a look at your previous comments as well then.

    "He doesn't have a clue what he's in for." - you don't know that.

    "this team needs a proven CEO, not Tommy Boy." - that's just a d*ck comment.

    Have a good weekend trolling.

    I guess I'm confused. If 99.99 % didn't care about content, why did they bother with calling the presser? Shouldn't they have just posted a stick picture of Juwan and a paragraph of his favorite vacation spots on the mgoblue.com web page?

    Who is trolling who? Word of advice. Have a beer, and try not to hurt yourself thinking of your next "clever" retort. (just another d*ck comment...sorry, couldn't help myself)...lol....

    Thanks in advance for your continued support...

    Sincerely,
    Tommy Boy

  • mgodude said... (original post)

    I guess I'm confused.

    Well, we agree on something.

  • It would be better if the Bball site here didn't turn into the Stadium and Main yell zone but what the hell if it does.
    The lack of HC experience is a question mark we all agree but the upsides are huge and he just hired a very experienced assistant. His ability to relate to recruits and his solid background of 19 years playing and 6 years as an NBA assistant make it worth it.
    The fact he is our guy is a bonus.
    Let it play out.

  • EzioAuditore said... (original post) BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!Well, this team didn't just fall off the cliff, but jumped off. DID THEY EVEN TRY TO GET SOMEONE OF Q...

    You were saying?