10 on Sunday (Broncos Edition)

10 on Sunday (Broncos Edition)

  • 1). Despite what a national reporter said a couple of days ago (Kitchens lasts the season), I’ll stick with what I wrote last Sunday...

    “I'd venture to say that if the Browns lose 2 of their next 3, and one of them is the Steelers at home, then the 10 days until the Dolphins will be their opportunity to make a coaching purge.”

    The mistakes were fewer, but still came at critical junctures.

    But more importantly, the club is just playing on its heels. It’s playing like it knows their game plan isn’t working, that holes in the lineup are undermining the assembled talent.

    The Broncos had several big plays, and the Browns responded with FG’s.

    An unknown QB steps in and lights them up. The Browns advance the ball with trepidation, then hit EMP in the red zone and settle for a FG. Time management was again a problem. Time is running out, and the club looks like it’s spinning it wheels and not making much progress getting out of the ditch.

    2). Mayfield early continued pressing with throws too high, too hard, or too late. Even when protection looked promising, he was quick to unload, either to a covered first option, or immediately go to his outlet. He wasn’t tossing INT’s, but had a few very dicey throws. He looked like Tim Couch on the two second maximum plan to get rid of the ball. His stats will look better than his actual play.

    Every week, a different facial look (Fu Manchu), but still the same tentative look.

    3) This announcing crew was getting names wrong early. Seal-Jones made the catch, not Beckham, Landry didnt make the sideline catch. That was Demetrious Harris. Garrett didn’t bat the pass, that was Larry Ogunjobi.

    4). Can anyone in the secondary tackle? Ward seems to have overreacted to his overagressiveness and poor technique last year and now just bounces off his first hits. Randall is out, and for even a free safety, he’s not the most physical guy. His backups are even worse. Whitehead had whiffs on the TE’s TD catch and Lindsey’s 41 TD Run. He had more whiffs than Dave Kingman in a double header. Forget about anyone resembling a midfield enforcer, no one can tackle.

    Funny that the one guy who has acquitted himself half way decently has been Greedy Williams.

    5). Chubb was pretty much bottled up, but still had some positive contributions. Great second effort in the second half, but victimized by the club going to him too many times because they were so leery of Mayfield going through the air.

    6). The microcosm play for the defense early was the batting the pass up in the air, and not only did Garrett drop it, but the turnover would have been negated anyway. But they did force a rare turnover, though again, they couldn’t yield more than a fg out of it.

    The microcosm play for the defense late was the touch pass to the te over the middle. Historically, a routine play against the Browns back 7.

    7). The 14 point swing now seems to be a weekly occurrence. The spot on 4th &1 was pretty questionable, but scrums in tight quarters rarely yield a conclusive review. And then the defense collapsed. Once Lindsey got into the secondary, it looked like one of those charity functions where the high school team feigns attempts at tackling the little kid with cancer running through their line.

    8 ) 7:21 left in the game. Can Mayfield get off the Schneid and engineer the winning drive? They moved the ball, largely thanks to the flukey Beckham reception. But Mayfield pressed, and tried to fit the ball to a covered Landry. And even if they could have forced a 3 & out, they were minus a timeout when they couldn’t get it together after a 3 yard loss.

    9). Disagree with the announcers on going to Beckham. First, Landry is no chopped liver. Secondly, gambling on a sideline route on 4th &4 would be foolish. And it would have required a touch pass, and Mayfield has been throwing nothing but hard ones. He’d be too amped up to make a touch pass at that point.

    10). I’d say that even if the Browns won next week, a loss to Pittsburgh would follow form and duplicate the historical trend of firing a HC after a Steelers loss. But that’s predicated on Dorsey formulating an exit strategy. The expedient route is giving Wilks an interim job, but I doubt Wilks believes that he could become the permanent guy should he do a Gregg Williams turnaround.

    Freddie Kitchens could wind up as a fascinating chapter in the woeful STR story of the franchise. He came out of nowhere to look like the unlikely coaching folk hero... only to see him fall to earth with a resounding thud. Will fans be saying “He was who WE THOUGHT HE WAS!!”? Could he have been the real deal with another year or so as OC? Or was it all a mirage?

    But the bigger question is Baker Mayfield. How can a qb make the debut he made, and go on to break the rookie QB record for TD passes...
    then turn around and go full tilt Joe Charboneau?

  • Discussion
  • The Steelers looked excellent today. I hate to say it, but they are down to their backups in all spots and 4-4 and playing hard. I am not sure if they'll make the playoffs but they are doing more with less, and the Browns are doing less with more.
    No Connor, no AB, no Big Ben, but Rudolph will become very good and they beat a VERY GOOD Colts team at home. I see them sweeping us; whereas before this game I had us splitting with them maybe depending on how things went.
    But I see them at 9-7 or so and the Browns at 2-14 to 5-11, depending on if we play better.

  • From bottom to top:

    Lots of gems in this, but the Charboneau ref has me wondering the same thing. People say "stats don't lie" and my response is: well either he's one of the most promising quarterbacks in history or he's ultra-dud - pick your stats. My personal take is that no matter how good the players play to get the redzone, you can bet that the coaching staff is going to make some of the most idiotic game planning to get into the endzone possible. Even with sloppy receiver play, the coaching in that zone is even worse than the rest of the field.

    The Freddie Kitchens play-call genius story was debunked by Wylie earlier and Freddie "good 'ol boyed" that to the grave but it probably should be dug up and reanimated.

    Freddie will likely last the season and Dorsey will stop answering his phone until December.

    Last year, when we actually won a few games against also-rans, we were using the field to get Baker room and Chubb running lanes. Why we're building a 4 foot wide stage for them to operate on is just so confusing. They used misdirection and roll outs like masters and this year it's like me and my little sisters playing "lava" where the whole world is lava except for the pillow you're standing on. You know, I stopped playing that when it became dull, which was about 40 seconds. Our coaches think it's the best game ever.

    I have no idea what's going on with the defense. They looked pretty promising early but it's almost as if someone has gone in a tweaked it to an electrocuted death, flopping around and jittery and screaming obscenities at your detractors while you're being led down the hall to pay for your crimes. English, Mr. Whitehead - in English, please.

    This team is self-destructing and it's not because we got rid of a good offensive lineman. This may be an example of Jethro typing at blazing speed to the sheer delight of Uncle Jed, Granny and the business academy professor, only to reveal that it's all just banging away on keys, signifying nothing. Much like my posts. But at least I know how to set up a screen and to allow Chubb to carry the ball in the redzone.

  • Set up a screen, yah, and how about defending one. After the Rams game I thought Wilkes was smart. Even the Patriot game didn't disuade me. But yesterday was moronic. I'm fine with a 4-2-5 base, but WTF. Three games, three times the contest has turned on a looooong screen pass, yesterday's being the capper. In a football nightmare you couldn't conjure up such poor execution of coverage and fundamental tackling. George F'ing Fant for 75 yards? You're going with 3 safeties and two are supposed to be hitters and we can't defend a TE screen pass? What did Wilkes think the Broncos would do with a rookie QB? Run the ball and mostly short passes. And that wildcat wasn't anything new. The book says blitz and disguies coverages. Wilkes says, no let's dish out some straight vanilla, no sprinkles. Wilkes looks bland, seems he thinks that way too.

    Jezus F"""k, I hate the donkeys and I'm starting to hate this coaching staff for being dumb as a train car full of scrap metal. Special teams guy.....you're allright.

  • I am not too impressed with Dorseys moves either to get us here. Getting rid of Duke Johnson, Darren Fells, Zeitler, Ogbah, Peppers . And replacing them with junk. OBJ is the only exception and this team has no idea how to use him but the Vernon trade was a waste. Ogbah is doing well, Fells is playing at a high level, Peppers is 2nd on his team in Tackles and Duke is a billion times better than what we got for a 3rd down back... THIS is all EGO on Dorsey because he didn't pick them. Meanwhile Corbert, Avery, and others are all starting to look like big time missed picks and the shine is wearing of Ward with his lengthy injury history and now we got a coach who is ruining Baker by making it as difficult for him to play QB as possible ALL because he has to call the plays... so they come in late Baker doesn't have time to do a proper pre-snap read (motions etc) and so he is having to read the defense after the snap as a 2nd year QB... It's just a recipe for disaster.

  • mythrand said... (original post) I am not too impressed with Dorseys moves either to get us here. Getting rid of Duke Johnson, Darren Fells, Zeitler, Ogbah, Peppers . And replacin...

    SD:

    Dorsey using trench shovels to remove productive players he didn't draft or sign and replace them with his own entrants instead of augmenting this roster with additional talent in areas of weakness killed this team before we started , by removing the few chemistry straws we had to stir this drink .

    Not retaining the hard **** Greg Williams in favor of the lardass Butterball has been an epic fail.

    The redzone calls alone sneaking Baker and running Hilliard while keeping Suggs on the bench

    are fireable offenses ,let alone his invariable penchant on every critical third down short yardage situation to go empty set with the best back in football standing idly on the sideline.

    The three blind mice display more vision foresight and ability to focus on situational football than Freddy .

    Cheech and Chong would have owned mile high yesterday ,and they never started an NFL game same as the Donkey QB .

    Yet another QB moonlighting from his janitor job we succeeded in making into a HOFamer only because they played us .

    >>>>>

    SoulDawg

  • SoulDawg74 said... (original post) SD:Dorsey using trench shovels to remove productive players he didn't draft or sign and replace them with his own entrants instead of augme...

    -- I hate to say this, but if Dorsey continues to be a GM who was good at first but is failing fast in growth management, then it may become time (I can't believe I'm even thinking this) for Jim Bob to start considering next best options. At the very least, it may be smart for the team to transition to a HC who is experienced, has opinions and has a voice that will be listened to when fundamental changes are made to the team. Dorsey seems to fear having his royal command challenged. But he may have to if it's for the betterment of the team.

    As much as I've regretted his rapid promotion from position coach to HC, in fairness I've been saying that it was still early in the process of judging Freddie's ability as a HC. Well, at 2-6 in a rudderless ship, the honeymoon is losing it's shine at this point. Meanwhile, the Rats and Squeelers ships seem to be sailing along fine...

  • SoulDawg74 said... (original post) Not retaining the hard **** Greg Williams in favor of the lardass Butterball has been an epic fail.

    Maybe neither was the right answer. The Jets D, which has talent, is as big of a clusterf"""k as the Browns' offense. What we do need is someone who can bring efficiency and coordination to a team structure, on and off the field. If it goes down that FK and staff get purged, I'd look for a vet HC who could bring an inventive OC open to new ideas and with playcalling skills. Maybe a DC to HC candidate like Eberflus. Christ, I might be open to Josh McDaniels, but that makes me gag a little. Stefanski? Yeesh, the thought of another HC search is nauseating.

  • MYTH:

    I am not too impressed with Dorseys moves either to get us here. Getting rid of Duke Johnson, Darren Fells, Zeitler, Ogbah, Peppers . And replacing them with junk. OBJ is the only exception and this team has no idea how to use him but the Vernon trade was a waste.

    AA:

    To say OBJ is an exception, but is misutilized.... then tell us the Vernon trade was a waste is a little too convenient.

    The vast majority of Browns players are underperforming.

    There are a few who continue to produce (Chubb, Bitonio, Garrett), and wastes for which there were never any expectations (Kush, Whitehead, Murray, McCray). But again, players like Baker, Landry, Beckham, Callaway, Ward, Tretter, Ogunjobi, Richardson, Vernon, Schobert, Ward, Randall are all playing well below their capabilities.

    MYTH:

    Ogbah is doing well, Fells is playing at a high level, Peppers is 2nd on his team in Tackles and Duke is a billion times better than what we got for a 3rd down back...

    AA:

    Yes, and why is that? BECAUSE THEY NO LONGER PLAY IN CLEVELAND. If they were, they'd virtually all be lumped into the underperforming category.

    MYTH:

    THIS is all EGO on Dorsey because he didn't pick them.

    AA:

    He DID pick Avery and Corbett, and they're gone. So even Dorsey's ego has limits.

    MYTH:

    Meanwhile Corbert, Avery, and others are all starting to look like big time missed picks and the shine is wearing of Ward with his lengthy injury history

    AA:

    Don't worry. The way he's hitting now, Ward looks like he's protecting himself by playing as if it was the Pro Bowl every week.

    MYTH:

    now we got a coach who is ruining Baker by making it as difficult for him to play QB as possible ALL because he has to call the plays... so they come in late Baker doesn't have time to do a proper pre-snap read (motions etc) and so he is having to read the defense after the snap as a 2nd year QB... It's just a recipe for disaster.

    AA:

    It's a recipe for which most of the team has fallen victim, and they know it. They've all been given their recipe books, followed the instructions, only to open the oven door to see if it's done, and it explodes in their face.

    It's the same recipe that many Browns teams have followed. No matter the percentage of good vs. mediocre talent, if virtually all of the players are underperforming, then the waste is the schemes under which they're laboring.

  • How does Wilks play mostly base D with hardly any different fronts, or blitzes mixed in to confuse the QB? Once more the Browns make a all-pro out of a QB who should have been shattered and abused.
    While on offense the Browns abuse themselves.Either with stupid personnel packages, or WR's running bad routes and Mayfield not seeing the entire field

  • Gameface64 said... (original post) Maybe neither was the right answer. The Jets D, which has talent, is as big of a clusterf"""k as the Browns' offense. What w...

    What really may be nauseating is if a possible HC search is once again led by the same crew who brought us the Wonderful World of Freddie. You know, the same guys who may have had "the right answer" begging to be the HC, but passed over him to anoint Mr. Moonpie.

    Let us hope- even though it seems unlikely right now- that Freddie will convince us all that we want him back for another year. If he somehow starts to HC that way, the "In Dorsey We Trust" mantra will start up again. Hope may not be a plan, but it'll have to do for the moment...

  • Imo its not a disciplinarian we need as much as some who knows what they are doing. Do you really want to roll the dice on a newbie? I still don't trust McDaniels. We screwed the pooch not getting Arians but there isn't another one of them out there. McCarthy whom I also didn't want to touch isn't the worst idea. Before we get to a 11-5 we need to just get to 500. McCarthy may not be sexy but he knows the basics, which we are lacking in sorely. Not saying he is it, just that unless something more proven comes along its better than we are seeing now.

  • hamster said... (original post) Imo its not a disciplinarian we need as much as some who knows what they are doing. Do you really want to roll the dice on a newbie? I still don&#x...

    Agree with your assessment of McCarthy. Unfortunately the effort you put into writing this may be equivalent to the effort Dorsey puts into his next coaching hire.

    I'm always leery of GM's who depend a little too much on going to the well of their former team. Mangini (the defacto GM) had to pick up 4-5 of his Jets alumnae group. Dorsey had his eye on McCarthy, but opted to protect his #1 draft pick investment by promoting the guy who gave Mayfield new life. It was a decision I think most see as one too many steps up, but it was also borne out of expedience.

    McCarthy would be another master stroke of pure expedience. The timing on this story is eyebrow raising.

  • too funny not to share. HOW I BECOME A COETSH BY FRED. (scroll to 13.05) Not exactly as I remember it but even better.

    https://youtu.be/AvOjzwr5pfU

  • hamster said... (original post) Imo its not a disciplinarian we need as much as some who knows what they are doing. Do you really want to roll the dice on a newbie? I still don&#x...

    My opinion of McCarthy is unwavering. No, no and hell no. Definitely not for the idea of hiring a coach to teach the team fundamentals and get us to .500, and then start looking for a different guy to take us to the top.

    RIght now I'm thinking get the best defensive coordinator, like Elberfus or Saleh (and hopt Saleh spent his downtime eavesdropping on Kyle Shannahan. Pari that guy with the best up and coming OC. Maybe make a run at Stefanski with a Asst HC title and salary bump.

    They could try to pry Lincoln Riley or Brian Day out of the NCAA. The way the NFL is trending, college coaches aren't as risky as they used to be.

    I'd shy away from McDaniels myself, but if he was the choice I think there'd be a lot of excitement around the hire. Just think he'd have a short shelf life due to his lack of people skills. But then, lack of people skills didn't hurt Belichick once the Ravens fired his ****. (I always wince when media types say the Browns fired Belichick and add that to our list of Stoopid Moves, when that particular discredit should reside in Maryland).

  • ergoipso said... (original post) What really may be nauseating is if a possible HC search is once again led by the same crew who brought us the Wonderful World of Freddie. You kno...

    Forgive me for pointing this out yet again Ergo, but the Bucs with Bruce Arians is 2-6 also.

    As for GreGGGGGG SD, the Jets just got beat by the winless Dolphins. So there you go.

    McCarthy? Really Ham. Didn't he get fired b/c he couldn't win with Aaron Freakin Rogers? What's he going to do with Highball Mayfield?

    And just what "veteran" HC is going to come work for Jimmy "quick draw" Haslam if he again fires a HC after only 1 season? You guessed it, Nobody.

    Just think, if the 9ers had over reacted the way every Browns fan has to the first 8 games of this season, Kyle Shanahan would have been fired 3 years ago and they wouldn't be 8-0 right now.

    It serves no purpose to fire anyone now or after this season. Freddie gets 2 years minimum. Otherwise both Jimmy and Dorsey look like fools.

  • GF:

    But then, lack of people skills didn't hurt Belichick once the Ravens fired his ****. (I always wince when media types say the Browns fired Belichick and add that to our list of Stoopid Moves, when that particular discredit should reside in Maryland).

    AA:

    Not sure when exactly the Cleveland Browns were no longer and the Baltimore Ravens came into being.

    The NFL owners voted 2/9/96 on the legal impasse, a 25-2 vote with 3 abstentions.

    The organization of players, coaches, facilities could move to Baltimore, but the Browns franchise colors, name team records, etc. were essentially deactivated, and to be reactivated with the granted expansion franchise in '99.

    What's unclear is when that vote officially took effect.

    One ESPN article cited 3/11/96...

    "Friday the 20th anniversary of a key date in the acrimony between the factions. It was on March 11, 1996, in Palm Beach, Florida, that NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue and the combined finance and stadium committees gave approval to owner Art Modell to move his team to Maryland. It was the final stamp on a deal the owners voted for a month earlier in Chicago that also allowed Cleveland to keep the Browns nickname, colors and records for a new team that would begin play in 1999."

    So it seems (maybe) as if the 2/9/96 vote was essentially the owners approving the deal solving the impasse, but the 3/11/96 vote made it official.

    And it's hard to imagine BB getting fired by Baltimore when he never actually coached them. Not for one game. Not for a preseason game. Not even for an OTA.

    And given the amount of flack BB generated from fans who wanted him gone, and from a boss who thought he was just a little too intense, and wanted to start in Baltimore with a clean slate, it becomes a bit of a revisionist stretch to say Belichick's firing didn't have a Cleveland stamp on it.

  • You take the team to Baltimore and then fire the coach, he was fired by the Ravens' owner, not the Browns. I get what you're saying, but the bottom line is that Belichick was fired after the move was announced, regardless of when the NFL blessed the sale.

  • poppa9601 said... (original post) Forgive me for pointing this out yet again Ergo, but the Bucs with Bruce Arians is 2-6 also. As for GreGGGGGG SD, the Jets just got beat by the w...

    SD:

    You can't blame the Jet loss on Gregg , not after word got out Gace and his new flunky GM tried to trade 8 Jets including their AllPro JamalAdams two days after shipping out their best DT because they didn't want to pay him.

    They lost to a team trying to lose .

    And would have lost to Rutgers with that HC in charge.

    >>>

    SoulDawg

    This post was edited by SoulDawg74 2 months ago

  • SoulDawg74 said... (original post) SD:You can't blame the Jet loss on Gregg , not after word got out Gace and his new flunky GM tried to trade 8 Jets including their AllPro J...

    Speaking of Jamal Adams, if I was Dorsey I'd check the price tag. We're competing (cough) in a division with Minkah Fitzpatrick and Earl Thomas. Both of the guys made a difference in recent wins for their teams. Randall talks more than makes plays, and Morgan is not an impact player. We shouldn't pick up ex Steelers on the cheap, they never do well here (Morgan and Hubbard). Meanwhile, Haden is still a starter, fwiw.

    Gregg's D wasn't doing well before the Jets GM listened for an offer he couldn't refuse on Adams. I like Gregg, but his defensive schemes were good for turnovers, but generally bad for yardage and points allowed.

  • SoulDawg74 said... (original post) SD:You can't blame the Jet loss on Gregg , not after word got out Gace and his new flunky GM tried to trade 8 Jets including their AllPro J...

    Tomato, toma'to. They lost to a winless team. Gregggg is the DC. Add it up anyway you like, but it's a L.

  • There are a lot of players on this team who have one decent to good skill but are one-dimensional. Very few complete players. For example, all our TE's are either pass catchers who can't block or vice versa. Schobert is good in pass coverage but not so much against the run.

    This team was overhyped and still has a lot of holes. It's one of the youngest teams in the league and we have the second most cap space and a couple of extra picks next year in the 3rd and 5th rounds. We're basically on Year Two of the rebuild after going 0-16. It's going to take a couple more years to become a competitive team.

    A few pieces are in place - Mayfield, Chubb, Bitonio, Hunt if they can retain him, maybe Landry and Beckham, Garrett, Vernon, Greedy, and maybe Ward. The punter and kicker. But that's about it. Maybe Wilson develops into a good linebacker. Everybody else is just a guy who has one skill that's OK or even good but is not a complete player.

    There have been some misses in the draft. Ward was taken too high. Corbett was a bust. Same with Chad Thomas. Avery has already been dumped. Takitaki can't get on the field ahead of somebody named Adarius Taylor. Morgan Burnett was allowed to walk by the Steelers but he was starting for us. Jerome Whitehead was cut in mid-season by the Packers and has been on the field for 94% of the snaps this year before getting waived today.

    People focused on the sizzle of Baker, OBJ, Chubb, and Garrett but ignored the rot at a lot of other positions. I'm not defending Freddie, but this team is nowhere near as talented at people thought.

  • poppa9601 said... (original post) Forgive me for pointing this out yet again Ergo, but the Bucs with Bruce Arians is 2-6 also. As for GreGGGGGG SD, the Jets just got beat by the w...

    Poppa, poppa, poppa. Arians' record in Tampa Bay isn't the point. Tampa Bay and Cleveland have different issues and different teams. Apples and oranges, if I may lean on an over-used phrase. It's simply whether or not it would have been better to have an experienced guy like Arians as HC (2-time HC of the Year, btw) and promote Freddie to full-time OC and possible HC-in-waiting rather than have what we have now. Even if it made Dorsey feel comfortable in his Fortress of Solitude.

    Water under the bridge? To an extent. But we still have the bridge named Dorsey as our GM. It's useful to look at his past actions to evaluate his ability. Since the team finished 7-8-1 last year, he's not looking so good.

    BTW: Jimmy and Dorsey are already pretty much looking like fools. So they don't need to worry about that when judging Freddie as HC.

  • poppa9601 said... (original post) Tomato, toma'to. They lost to a winless team. Gregggg is the DC. Add it up anyway you like, but it's a L.

    SD:

    Less Filling ,Tastes Great .

    Both can be true .

    But tell me Gregg is 2-6 with this same roster and leading the league in penalties and stupidity and I'll shut up .

    Mfer wasn't scared to get in that Azz while Freddy wants to be everybodies friend .

    We lost the adult in the room , and this mess is the result.

    >>>>>

    SoulDawg

  • SoulDawg74 said... (original post) SD:Less Filling ,Tastes Great .Both can be true .But tell me Gregg is 2-6 with this same roster and leading the league in penalties and stupidit...

    And whose fault is that? Do you know, or do you want me to tell you?

    If you think this is "Freddie's" team, you'd be wrong. It's Dorsey's team, from HC to OC and DC. He's picked the players, the coaches and made the trades. It's all John Dorsey. This is the team he wanted.

    Try to remember that when you watch the s*** show on the field.

  • SoulDawg74 said... (original post) SD:Less Filling ,Tastes Great .Both can be true .But tell me Gregg is 2-6 with this same roster and leading the league in penalties and stupidit...




    Just asking.... Was there ever a successful head coach who was a buddy to the.players? seems the best were task masters.