10 on Sunday (Steelers Mystery Edition)

10 on Sunday (Steelers Mystery Edition)

  • 1). The more thing change (player acquisitions, starters out), the more things remain the same (coaching, institutional culture).

    2). Ugly final 3 minutes in the half. Disappointing 3 & out.. before it, Steelers finally got the crowd into the game (after futile looking possessions) with a drive that resulted in their first score. Browns had to seize back the momentum by eating up the clock with a scoring drive. Instead the Steelers got it back with a chance to add another score. Hodges continued to warm up and the half ended with a tie instead of a 17-3 lead. Browns composure withered as crowd noise picked up.

    With a minute left, the offense settled for conservative, but Hunt’s mini-Marshawn runs wouldn’t let them. All they needed was two intermediate completions, but instead tried two futile bombs to Beckham.

    What I wrote as the big momentum shift as the half ended turned out to be the killer as the Steelers never looked back.

    3). So the big question is what did Randall do to have Kitchens leave him at home despite his being the one quality safety on the roster, AND the safeties being paper thin? Imagine more than a few fans who talk the talk about discipline stopped in their tracks “Hey, uh, lets hold on a second...” But the Browns did not get victimized over the middle... not with Washington down the right sideline. Maybe Randall would have made on the tying TD catch, but it’s not like he, or anyone on the defense this year, has made many game changing plays. Mitchell made one later, but the offense didn’t capitalize on it).

    4). Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the serious upgrade of Mack & Byner.

    Chubb mixes his own speedy downhill running with the deliberate LaGarette Blont inside running in traffic. Hunt doesn’t get the same blocking for runs, but hes a more lethal Duke Johnson. Fun to see them share a backfield, and we’ll likely see more of that as the season winds down. But if nothing else, the Browns have to get this to at least a 1/3-2/3’s ratio of carries to save on Chubb’s wear.

    5). Carlson’s stiff arm on the first drive will be a highlight played to death this off season. It looked less like a stiff arm and more like a Vulcan nerve grip where the defender just dropped away like he went boneless.

    6). Dog scraps.

    First and goal, the Browns showeda tendency to give to Chubb off right tackle that invariably ends up as a loss. I’ll have to look up the others later, but I’m guessing there are about 3 out there.

    Yea, Hodges didn’t help himself not stepping up in the pocket, but that should take nothing away from Chad Thomas streaking in like a wild boar out of the bush to swallow Duck Tartarre in one bite. Seemed a distant memory by the second half.

    Thought there was a east west wind that had Boswell’s kick off go out of the end zone while Seibert’s only made it to the 5. But 2nd quarter? Another kickoff to the 5. It’s one thing if a short kick had hang time, but the kickoff to open the second half went just to the 10 and was returned to the 30.

    So much was captured in two Steeler catches, each about three yards short, and the receivers simply powered their way through the Browns defenders for first downs. The second prettty much the nail in the coffin.

    Opposite of that, Schobert looked like he was tackling with far more authority than is customary for him.


    Forget the unnecessary roughness call after the play, why wasn’t Samuels flagged for leading with the helmet against Greedy Williams? Or can ball carriers do that along with grabbing the face mask or kicking the crotch? Well, at least we’ll always have Carlson’s stiff arm.


    Well, the Steelers had plenty of license to complain themselves with some dubious calls, especially the false start on Hodges in the second quarter, and the roughing call on Dupree.

    7). Too bad a Steeler wasn’t draped all over Demetrius Harris, then they could have argued that the ground cannot cause a fumble. He sure seemed to have it in his mitts long enough. If fans complain about why the Browns go to Harris, it’s probably because they don’t have one receiver greater than smurf side. Besides, Njoku hasn’t shown he could have turned that into a TD catch either.

    8 ). In clutch situations, Mayfield just seems to get wound up and fire hard balls, and loses accuracy as well as touch. All three of his passes on the final drive were well off target.

    While people were praising Siebert in some thread, I said judgement has to be reserved for the moments he hasn’t really had to face yet. Can he convert a 45 yarder with the game on the lin? Hasn’t come up yet.

    But Mayfield, so far this season, has not stepped up to the challenge. The elephant in the room was against the Rams going 0-4 inside the 10 to tie it. His character would make fans believe he’s a gun slinger and a clutch guy on the final drive to win it with 2 or 3 minutes left. Today, a TD became a fg, and a third down sack turned into a Siebert pooch punt.

    9). To say nothing of Odell Beckham. But maybe I missed it, Maybe he was in the medical tent. He had a nice route and catch to start the the Browns final scoring drive, but then got lost in the crowd.

    10). So the Browns lost a game they had to win, and one they should have won, so who’s to blame? Round up the usual suspects. This is like a period mystery that is parodied by KNIVES OUT.

    Who’s the culprit?

    [Organ music & CU’s as characters turn their head towards the camera]

    Baker Mayfield?? (Shot sequence of high hard ones)

    Odell Beckham?? (Showing off soccer kick of football)

    Todd Monken?? (The next successful quick sideline pass that gains yards will be the first)

    Steve Wilks?? (Every opposing rookie fa QB gets to play hero!)

    Freddie Kitchens?? (the Master of mid-game adjustments)

    John Dorsey?? (“For every quality acquisition to fill a hole—Lo, let there be THREE holes to overlook!”)

    The Browns Institutional Culture??

    What sayeth the mob?

  • Discussion
  • Vaark said... (original post) 1). The more thing change (player acquisitions, starters out), the more things remain the same (coaching, institutional culture). 2). Ugly final 3 mi...

    SD:

    Don't forget Randall, for pulling the non happy contract negotiation extortion.

    or the Browns team itself , for checking their heart on the coat rack second half .

    My vote .

    A mix starting with the culture .

    The Culture of losing cycle thats the unending wheel ..so far unfathomable to break.

    >>>>

    SoulDawg

  • As Lesmerises put it, the Browns were playing a team with "more discipline, more maturity, and a smarter coaching staff.".

    "The Browns lost to a Steeler team without its star QB (Ben Roethlisbeger), best wide receiver (JuJu Smith-Schuster), top running back (James Conner) and Pro Bowl center Maurkice Pouncey (suspended).

    The Browns were up 10-0 in the middle of the second quarter. The Steelers made some adjustments. Then the Browns just looked like a bunch of guys who couldn’t find their cellphone, staggering around feeling lost."

    I think the Steelers also had more talent, at least what was on the field today. Randall, Garrett, and Robinson don't count. The Steelers' defensive line might be the best in football. The Browns' offensive line with McCray at left tackle, Hubbard at right tackle, and Teller at right guard is definitely below average, probably well below. Mayfield was sacked five times and hit seven more. I think he was only sacked once in the first meeting.

    The Steelers' offensive line is above average even without Pouncy. The Browns didn't have Garrett and Vernon did not look 100%. The Steelers dominated the trenches on both sides of the ball. That, and the Browns secondary giving up several long passes was the difference. I wonder if Freddie is second guessing himself for leaving Randall home. Couldn't he have just fined him?

    As Lesmerises pointed out, the Browns were missing two key defensive players due not to injury but to discipline issues. I don't know if they win with Garrett and Randall, but it's very possible. The game came down to three long passes by the Steeler offense where Hodges had a clean pocket and the Browns' safeties failed to knock down the pass.

    This post was edited by PROSECUTOR 1 month ago

  • Vaark said... (original post) 1). The more thing change (player acquisitions, starters out), the more things remain the same (coaching, institutional culture). 2). Ugly final 3 mi...

    AA

    odd Monken?? (The next successful quick sideline pass that gains yards will be the first)

    Steve Wilks?? (Every opposing rookie fa QB gets to play hero!)

    Freddie Kitchens?? (the Master of mid-game adjustments)

    John Dorsey?? (“For every quality acquisition to fill a hole—Lo, let there be THREE holes to overlook!”)

    H

    You said it all here. This is the real 'lull'

    We are not a draft or two away from shite so why go there? We have MORE than enough talent to get it done in most of the games we have lost, especially this one. As RR would say " the fish rots from the head down". Dorsey didn't build a team, he collected indiviual talent. There is no 'foundation' just pieces. Freddie can't lead a team, and sure as hell can't call plays unless EVERYTHING goes his way. Wilks is a stiff without a plan. Who knows what Monken is? With Freddie's grip on the offense, I doubt Monken is listened too much. What a dismal display of ineptitude.

    This post was edited by hamster 1 month ago

  • Let’s put it this way: put those names provided in order of being the problem, including those not mentioned. Or is it strictly a total team effort?

  • The list starts with Freddie. Maybe he has a T shirt for sitting out of he playoffs?

    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/01/steelers-glad-their-coach-would-never-do-anything-like-freddie-kitchens/

    What a leader! What next, a Pinata's wearing the jersey's of next weeks game during practic?

    This post was edited by hamster 1 month ago

  • The obvious answer is the decision maker, John Dorsey. This is his mess.
    He's made the trades
    He's picked the players in the draft
    He hired the HC and all the assistants.

    Seems pretty clear to me

  • PROSECUTOR said... (original post) As Lesmerises put it, the Browns were playing a team with "more discipline, more maturity, and a smarter coaching staff."."The Br...

    I'm hoping this game creates changes in the FO and staff.

    Maybe it would have been better had we lost 45-10, and Haslams would open their eyes.

  • poppa9601 said... (original post) The obvious answer is the decision maker, John Dorsey. This is his mess.He's made the tradesHe's picked the players in the draftHe hire...

    Pretty reasonable, though if we’re being literal here, then it’s on the guy who hired Dorsey.

    But I think Haslam has gotten comfortable with his lower profile and not having his posterior pressed every day on a Hough window radiator in January. He’s content to hold on to Dorsey a while longer, but may lean on him for changes in the coaching staff.

    The problem may not be viewed as the draft picks. Only Chubb took the big leap in year two. But It isn’t like Mayfield and Ward have yet to show anything. Too many players have underperformed from last year.

  • Vaark said... (original post) Pretty reasonable, though if we’re being literal here, then it’s on the guy who hired Dorsey.But I think Haslam has gotten comfortable with his lower ...

    Not trying to get into a pisser on who sucks more, Freddie or Dorsey but...... When you look good in drives only to fold like a house of cards as the game progresses over and over its not talent AS MUCH as how what every talent we do have is being used. For God's sake. The Steeler's are using a third string QB with no viable running game and putting points up. We have Chubb, Hunt, Landrey and OBJ not to mention as much talent as the Steelers with the rest of what we got left over and we can't do squat when needed????? That's coaching. They answer the bell in crunch time we wet our pants. Wilks is a train wreck but its starts with Freddie at this point. We have NO problems when we start most games. The script comes out and our players (With the talent we have) march down the field. As soon as the defense adjusts. WE DON'T. We can't? Why? Wilks is a terrrible DC but since Freddie asked or shoud I say DEMANDED to be HC that falls on him too. You want to get rid of Dorsey? Fine. But I'll guarentee you that Tomblin and a number of other HC's with the SAME talent would have us playoff bound.

  • {cough} offensive and defensive lines {cough}.

  • hamster said... (original post) Not trying to get into a pisser on who sucks more, Freddie or Dorsey but...... When you look good in drives only to fold like a house of cards as t...

    There's nothing else that needs to be said.

    This entire team needs an organizational revamp, top to bottom. It may be a 5-year plan but I think we need to start over.user generated

  • kosartoslaughter said... (original post) There's nothing else that needs to be said.This entire team needs an organizational revamp, top to bottom. It may be a 5-year plan bu...

    No, no and hell no. Tearing it down would be dumb. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Reload, refine and refocus.

    I can't say about the coaching, but there's more there than there is missing. Like 2/3, 66%.

  • I’ll eat some crow- turkey wasn’t enough, apparently. I thought this team had turned the corner, but they just took 3 small steps forward and then 1 giant step back.

    Up 10-3 at the end of the first half, with the ball, and instead of running the ball and controlling the clock, we give them the ball back, go into half 10-10. Props to whoever pointed this out first- exactumundo.

    Giving up Hail Mary bombs to the Duck is inexcusable.

    Letting them run it down our throats at the start of the 2nd half is inexcusable.

    Offense getting shut down for most of the game is inexcusable, albeit to a damn good D.

    We needed to gut out this win and the coaching, play calling, and execution let us down.

    This team is gutless. A win we had to have- and could and should have easily had did not happen- for many reasons.

    I guess now you have to try to win out and hope for the best at 9-7 - though I don’t see that happening - Balt is a pipe dream, Zona ain’t gonna be easy, and Cincy twice ain’t a given, either.

    I see 6-10 in our future. 8-8 at best. Sad but true.

  • poppa9601 said... (original post) The obvious answer is the decision maker, John Dorsey. This is his mess.He's made the tradesHe's picked the players in the draftHe hire...

    It's hard to argue that Dorsey isn't the central figure in this "situation"......as you've pointed out, he handpicked the QB and the HC (and probably the coaching staff as well)....and made a couple of big trades with the Giants that haven't turned out exactly as planned.

    I'm not absolving Freddie or Baker.....they both deserve their share of the blame....but, this is Dorsey's team. Haslam gave him the run of the house and, so far anyway, the results are far from what was expected.

    I think we can assume that Dorsey isn't going anywhere (at least for now)....nor is Baker.....so, Freddie may end up taking the fall....but, I think the problems run a lot deeper than just him.

    I dread the thought of another HC search and all that comes with it....and we'll probably be looking at the same cast of characters that we were looking at last time.....plus another hot coordinator or two.

    But, barring a strong finish that buys Freddie another year....or a decision by Haslam and Dorsey that the status quo deserves at least two years to either prove or disprove themselves....I fear that's where we're heading.

  • dawgmusic said... (original post) I’ll eat some crow- turkey wasn’t enough, apparently. I thought this team had turned the corner, but they just took 3 small steps forward and the...

    Don't be a nancy. Just kidding.......we better make 8-8. Having a worse record than last year's 7-8-1 will be really bitter pill to swallow, even after years of sh't sandwiches forced down our throats.

    I'm absolutey torn about making a coaching change. Putting Mayfield into a 3rd offenisve system in three years seems.....less than ideal. New coaches almost always equals a 2 year set back. But sometimes it works, and staying with a bad set-up can also be a disaster. For whatever reasons, it's undeniable this team has underachieved. I get that the offensive line didn't get fully retooled, that Fred is a rookie HC, that the schedule was beyond brutal, that the team needed time to gel, but damn. I CANNOT for the life of me understand how OB J has been such a non-factor. I guess a weapon is only as good as the person aiming it. Somehow we've been too dumb to activate our full potential in that one area, and it makes me wonder how much potential has been blunted in others.

  • TheDutchman said... (original post) It's hard to argue that Dorsey isn't the central figure in this "situation"......as you've pointed out, he handpicked ...

    SD:

    Dorsey didn't waste a second half interception , where we could have and should have regained the momentum in the game .

    Dorsey didn't mismanage the clock end of the first half effectively squandering the lead we built while simultaneously putting the inbred in the game and gifting them a possession they should have never had .

    I could go on but no need those two mistakes were coaching decisions gone wrong which directly attributed to the loss over and above the play or non play of the players.

    Thats the high hurdle Freddy keeps raising against his own position to be retained and create any type coaching continuity.

    >>>>>>>

    SoulDawg

  • It's throwing under the bus time. Start with Mayfield's comment about the offensive line.

    "It’s frustrating. The types of plays we had drawn up require a little bit of time. We talked about it earlier in the week. They play well at home, that defensive front, and they did it again today. We weren’t able to get the ball down the field like we expected."

    So according to Baker the offensive line didn't give him the time he needed and expected. Obviously our OL doesn't match up against Pittsburgh's front seven. Check either ProFootballFocus or FootballOutsiders and they both have the Browns' offensive line near the bottom of the rankings with Pittsburgh's pass rush and run defense near the top. So why did Freddie draw up plays that "require a little bit of time"? Those plays might work against the Dolphins, but the Steelers are another animal altogether.

    Freddie threw the corners under the bus.

    “A T-shirt didn’t cause us to give up 40-yard passes," he said when asked about the infamous "Pittsburgh Started It" shirt he wore to a movie.

    He also defended his decision to leave Damarious Randall home.

    "Well, a middle safety’s not going to do any help. They threw the ball down the middle of the field one time, and [Sheldrick] Redwine was there and made a good play on the ball and got the ball out. Middle field safety’s not making those plays on the sideline. They were throwing at our corners."

    So he's saying the cornerbacks were at fault on the three long pass completions that were the difference in this game.

    He joined Baker in throwing the offensive line under the bus.

    "Thirty of their 38 sacks happened at home, so you couldn’t get into a deal where you were dropping back and throwing the ball all about. Protecting those edges, and then when we you start struggling a little bit inside, I don’t know what you do with that."

    So he used tight ends to help the tackles protect the edges, but then the middle sprung a leak.

    He also faulted the players in general for lack of focus and intensity, especially after getting out to an early lead.

    "We had lapses of judgement, concentration, and focus....I think we need to match that intensity, and continue moving forward with that same intensity that we started the game with. We have to be able to carry that through the whole game, and not just in short spurts."

    And the tackling.

    "I think there were a lot of yards after contact that we need to get corrected."

    For once Freddie didn't criticize himself or say he needed to coach better.

    "We’re not going to change our approach and how we’re preparing and how we’re playing.....I think we played the type of game that we needed to play to come in here and win."

    That tells me he's starting to worry about his job. Earlier in the season he would talk about the players having to play better and the coaches having to coach better. I'm not hearing that anymore. Now it's missed tackles, the corners failing to make plays, the offensive line, and a general inability to maintain focus and intensity through the entire game. Nothing about needing better coaching.

    He echoed my ongoing complaint about defensive backs failing to play the ball and instead trying to poke the ball out after the receiver gets his hands on it, with minimal success. When asked if he "feels good" about his corners, he said,

    "I think we need to continue to work and strive attacking the football, competing on the football. "

    No *****, Freddie, but 12 games into the season shouldn't the corners be attacking the football by now? Whose fault is that when they don't look back for the ball and just try to pry it away from the receiver after the catch? How is that working?

    So Freddie blames the players, particularly the cornerbacks and the offensive line, but also the whole team for a general inability to stay focused and intense. Mayfield said the plays they tried to run required more time than the offensive line was able to provide.

    Obviously the offensive line is a problem. PFF ranks McCray and Hubbard 65 and 72 among tackles. Since there are 64 starters, it's clear neither of these guys are legitimate starters. They're both decent backups, no more. Wyatt Teller is ranked #59 among guards. IOW, one of the six worst starting guards in the league.

    I think fans focus on the stars and fail to see how bad this team is at some key positions.

    As for the corners, Greedy is a rookie. Denzel Ward is having a sophomore slump. I really question whether he'll ever be a top corner. He's so small that receivers just jump over him to make catches. Greedy and Ward got the two lowest grades on the defense by far according to PFF (37 and 31). I can't blame Freddie for his comments; they were both awful.

    The highest PFF grades on offense and defense went to Carlson and Redwine, a pair of rookies, so hopefully that's good news for the future.

    This was a crushing loss, but keep in mind the Steelers started the season losing to three top five teams: New England, Seattle, and San Francisco. Since then they're 7-2, with one loss to the Ravens in OT and the other to the Browns. They're a pretty good team, and they're better with Hodges than with Rudolph.

    This post was edited by PROSECUTOR 1 month ago

  • SoulDawg74 said... (original post) SD:Dorsey didn't waste a second half interception , where we could have and should have regained the momentum in the game .Dorsey didn'...

    I said I'm not absolving Freddie, or Baker, of blame.....they've both contributed greatly to where we now find ourselves....as has Wilks and his candyass defensive approach that lets free agent QBs whip our ****.

    But, Dorsey is responsible for the OL problems....an OL that is incapable of holding up against a defensive front that can bring pressure....and an OL that has helped contribute to a rather significant regression in the play of our savior FQB.

    Baker's not athletic enough to function behind a sieve of an OL.....Dorsey knew that but still gambled that we could scheme our way around the problems with the OL....and he lost that gamble.

    Freddie will most likely be the fall guy. I'm not sure anyone's ever went from the toast of the town to everybody's punching bag quicker than he has....and while much of the criticism may very well be deserved, Dorsey's hands are dirty too.

    It's kinda like the old broad in Hoosiers told Coach Norman Dale after his first few weeks in town....."Sun don't shine on the same dog's **** everyday, but, mister you ain't seen a ray of light since you got here."

    This post was edited by TheDutchman 1 month ago

  • PROSECUTOR said... (original post) It's throwing under the bus time. Start with Mayfield's comment about the offensive line."It’s frustrating. The types of plays we ...

    SD:

    We gave them the game Mr. Prosecutor.

    Up by a double digit lead , Freddy went stupid and started airing out a game where our backs were averaging 5 yards a pop, and put the inbred back into the game before the half ended with them getting the second half kickoff.

    Chubb and Hunt touched the ball 6 times the second half , and none from the 30 yard line after the pick where we could have controlled the game , turned it around beat this team at its own game in their place .

    Freddy is clueless , his game management and situational play calling is blindfolded dart throwing instead of sequential strategic deployment , setting up follow plays with the ones called before.

    In the crunch , he's lost and our second half play in games is a reflection of him flailing around desperately clutching at straws .

    Damn fool plays away from his strengths .

    Gregg would have had us in the playoffs now , while its 60 /40 Freddy doesn't make it to 500 with the weakest opponent schedule in the NFL left , two of those games with the Bengals, who've won all of one game.

    Poppa can blame undue expectations as the culprit .

    But underperforming at basic football fundamentals is reflection of poor coaching .

    This team plays dumb , Freddy makes stupid on field decisions on the regular .

    His ineptitudes cost games , ultimately this is where he'll be correctly judged to be retained or removed .

    Can we live with his foibles until he learns or do they bust a move with a proven HC long past over such stupid mistakes largely pointing to Hubris.

    >>>

    SoulDawg

  • P
    This was a crushing loss, but keep in mind the Steelers started the season losing to three top five teams: New England, Seattle, and San Francisco. Since then they're 7-2, with one loss to the Ravens in OT and the other to the Browns. They're a pretty good team, and they're better with Hodges than with Rudolph. WE SHOULD BE BETTER THAN PRETTY GOOD.

    H
    Nope! They are a good defense not a good team! All we had to do was play solid football to win it. WE have more talent period. You can dissect they game anyway anyone want but its the same story different team. We start off strong -(Because we have enough talent to win). (We have enough talent to execute a game plan)
    We then stall after the first quarter - The reason? Coaching. They adjust we don't!!!! Either Freddie won't move off script or can't. Either way the opposing team wears us down. Wilks is a joke on D.
    As we are worn down the players lose intensity, confidence and rhythm. Baker starts to panic and makes desperate moves. He is only prepared to carry out the script. His foot work gets sloppy and he loses accuracy. Holds the ball too long witch puts pressure on the OL. In turn they panic and get sloppy. We have the greatest running back tandem which is wasted game after game. Slice and dice it all ya want (not you pros, but any who keeps looking for player fault first). This starts and points first and foremost to the man who DEMANDED TO BE HC! WHO DEMANDED TO CALL THE PLAYS! WHO WANTED TO BE THE MAN! I'm tired of the good ole country boy routine. He has gone from country cunning to that fat arse character in the movie Roadhouse running around clueless. Didn't that character also wear a T shirt?


  • HAM:

    They are a good defense not a good team! All we had to do was play solid football to win it. WE have more talent period. You can dissect they game anyway anyone want but its the same story different team. We start off strong -(Because we have enough talent to win). (We have enough talent to execute a game plan)
    We then stall after the first quarter - The reason? Coaching.

    AA:

    You'll get no argument from me about the coaching. But I think it has become a snap judgment that the Browns have more talent than many of these teams, to which I'd say more talent on paper (thanks to coaching and schemes that either put them in a position to succeed, or put them in the outhouse with only a corn cob.

    Remember what Joe Thomas said about the Browns lacking a critical mass of "middle class" players? These are the non-stars, but the role players who do their job and in turn allow the stars to shine. The Browns are like the rest of the country: more stars, more marginal players, and a shrinking middle class.

    The OL has two middle class players, and three guys living in tents down off the freeway.

    The secondary has two yuppies, and two guys who must room together in a trailer park to make ends meet.

    The DL has seen one star (now suspended), two middle class players, and everyone in the lobby of the transient hotel.

    All the weak links have to start cancelling out the stars when you add it all up. Baker can't play pitch and catch with OBJ and Jarvis if fat blobs in cement shoes wave at pass rushers going by, or chipped by TE's not known for any blocking skills.

    And as for Mayfield's comments about the OL, I said many times over the past 8-9 months that acquiring OBJ gave the Browns a bona fide deep threat, but it would mean little if the tackles couldn't sustain outside rushes and allow Baker enough time to let plays develop. All Mayfield had time for yesterday were quick 7 yarders to Odell in traffic, the worst utilization possible given his strengths and shortcomings. OBJ can make something in space. He can't make more than Steve Heiden on 7 yarders in crosstown traffic.

    He caught one ball two yards short of the first down marker, had to get by two defenders next to one another... and juked his way to maybe an 18" gain.

    A big Steelers receiver caught a pass two yards short of the same marker, and gained three yards dragging a Browns pipsqueak.

  • hamster said... (original post) PThis was a crushing loss, but keep in mind the Steelers started the season losing to three top five teams: New England, Seattle, and San Francisco...

    "He has gone from country cunning to that fat arse character in the movie Roadhouse running around clueless. Didn't that character also wear a T shirt?"

    -- At least Freddie is still wearing something. When he goes shirtless and appears on that show "Cops" angrily shouting the game-plan at the camera, then we need to really be worried.

    When the dust settles in the off-season, there needs to be a calm and serious evaluation of where the team is- and is headed- under Dorsey's (apparently) complete control. He started off well. But things seem to have gone a little askew lately.

  • AA
    You'll get no argument from me about the coaching. But I think it has become a snap judgment that the Browns have more talent than many of these teams, to which I'd say more talent on paper (thanks to coaching and schemes that either put them in a position to succeed, or put them in the outhouse with only a corn cob.


    H
    Every team has its own weak links. Paper or not we have some serious talent as I mentioned that should compensate enough for what we lack. That is seen at the beginning of most games. The connective tissue players you mention don't cancel the talent we have. Hunt, Chubb, Landry, OBJ are real as well as a number of other players. You see a team that for the most part moves the ball effectively at the start of most games. The only thing that changes on game day is adjustments. If we can look good in one scheme but fail when defenses adjust, its more of not countering to the adjustments made not talent disappearing from our team. There is too much film for opposing teams to see that if it were just a bad oline we would be stopped before we get started. Freddie is horrible in adjustments and game day play calling. The Steelers looked inept at the start but looked better as they adjusted. We digressed for the same reason. It wasn't the talent level changing it was coaching and adjustments. Two weeks ago our paper talent soundly beat the team we just lost too with the same deficiencies. Garrett doesn't play on the offense. I listened to Freddie's presser and I hear the same thing. He says" "Nothing is wrong with the plan", "We didn't need to make changes, just execute the plan" "We are not going to change a thing". "We just have to execute the plan". That all rings to me of someone who is stubborn doesn't understand adjustments. He goes in with a script and damn the team he faces, the script is it and the players have to execute it period. When that fails it chaos. It doesn't all fall on Freddie but it does start with him.

  • hamster said... (original post) PThis was a crushing loss, but keep in mind the Steelers started the season losing to three top five teams: New England, Seattle, and San Francisco...

    I've said this a million times, but I'll say it again. The Steelers are the best team in the entire league at finding WR's. They pluck these tall fast guys with great hands out of the middle rounds, and that talent is not to be discounted. Lose Plax Burress, no problem. Lose Hines Ward, no problem. Lose Mike Wallace, no problem. Lose Emmanuel Sanders, no problem. Lose AB, no problem. Lose Juju, no problem. It's like Groundhog Day, except it's the Browns who are stuck in a nightmare. All they need is a QB who can chuck it deep and the WRs make the plays. We rushed Rudolph and broke down the Pitt protection, but without Garrett Hodges had a little more time, and wasn't shy about getting the deep ball out fast. Look at the front page of the site for the deep passes, the ball is on its way pretty quickly. The coverage wasn't terrible, but not good enough.

    The Steeler defense is no joke. Their DL vs our OL was the biggest mismatch of the day. Should Fred have done a better job countering? Maybe, but it was a tall order to run or pass with such a disadvantage. Chubb got stuffed more often than not, and attempts to get Hunt the ball in space were mostly misfires as well. Should have useed them together more often, but not sure that would have won the game going away either.

    Not calling you out Ham, I get your POV. Just sayin', thinking this game should have been a walkover isn't really looking at the strengths and weaknesses of the two teams closely. And I'm including coaching and culture in the weaknesses section.

  • GF- Understand your POV too and I'm not taking anything personal. You are right about players stepping up on some teams. You know who also has a knack for finding gems? Mumbles. Reid and a host of other top coaches. They are examples of what coaching and the 'right' scheme can do. We have had a few hidden gems surface from time to time. Talent is talent but it takes coaching and scheme to make them shine.
    While other teams uncover talent we cover up the talent we have.