10 on Sunday (Steelers Mystery Edition)

10 on Sunday (Steelers Mystery Edition)

  • A couple random thoughts:

    Man, I really hate Harris, described last week as the man with the frying pan hands. I can think of 3 times this year that Mayfield has gone down the middle in the red zone to Harris and 3 times he's gotten his hands on the ball and either dropped it or lacked the body control to stay in bounds. Missing Darren Fells. And Orson Charles too. Those guys struck me as culture guys, quick to pick up teammates and congratulate teammates on good plays.

    Anybody else think OBJ is dinged up. Hip and groin issues going back to TC. Other than the Jets sprint to the end zone, both his quicks and top end look diminished to me. He's not separating. There's more problems than just that, with the route designs and chemistry with Mayfield, but OBJ just doesn't look like himself from what I see.

    I can only think of 2 long passes to OBJ all f''''king year. That's absurd. Washington had that many in a half yesterday.

    This post was edited by Gameface64 1 month ago

  • Like I said, there's talent on paper that is undermined by the well below average talent at so many other positions (and the usual attrition from injuries and lack of quality depth). Adjustments then break the dam as the inferior players get snowed under, and then the stars can't be the stars. Chubb and Hunt were impressive in the first half, but then the Browns fell behind, and since there certainly was no lead to protect, their carries in the second half diminished.

    HAM:

    I listened to Freddie's presser and I hear the same thing. He says" "Nothing is wrong with the plan", "We didn't need to make changes, just execute the plan" "We are not going to change a thing". "We just have to execute the plan". That all rings to me of someone who is stubborn doesn't understand adjustments. He goes in with a script and damn the team he faces, the script is it and the players have to execute it period. When that fails it chaos. It doesn't all fall on Freddie but it does start with him.

    AA:

    And what your saying is certainly a concern that can be expressed by Haslam (and what did Frank Sheerhan say? "When a guy tells you he's a little concerned, he's a LOT concerned. And when he tells you he's very concerned, he's desperate."). And if he doesn't express it, it's already on Dorsey's mind.

    But both Dorsey and Haslam may be of the mind that the year in review with Kitchens will be critical. If Freddie is of the Hue-like mind that the plan is fine, but it's a problem with others executing it, then the concern is yet another coach doesn't realize that if problems show themselves week after week after week (though somewhat relieved when playing a really bad team), then the club may have itself a problem moving forward.

    8-8 is a realistic record to shoot for. But if the mistakes continue, the execution is lacking, and another player is suspended for dereliction of duty, then Freddie's going to have a tough sell at his year end interview, and simply posturing that the plan doesn't need change will not be a selling point in his favor.

    And if he's given another year to straighten out, and improvement doesn't take hold despite an influx (cross our fingers) of help, then Kitchens won't be the only one shown the door in another 13 months.

  • kosartoslaughter said... (original post) I'm hoping this game creates changes in the FO and staff.Maybe it would have been better had we lost 45-10, and Haslams would open th...

    Really kts?

    What did you enjoy more, this year's win over Baltimore, Buffalo and the first 59+ minutes of the 1st Steeler game or any game in the 1-31 2 seasons?

    We are close, we need a few pieces but we need to execute and scheme to our strengths better.

    Time's running out for Freddy and the Dreamers, there might be some good choices this offseason for HC to lead the team.

  • "All the weak links have to start cancelling out the stars when you add it all up."

    That's how I see it, Vark. The Browns had three starters on their offensive line that wouldn't be starting on most teams. The announcers stated that Tretter appeared to be limping and couldn't push off one leg. It's tough to put points on the board against PFF's #1 rated defense with three backups and another guy less than 100% playing on the O-line.

    That doesn't excuse Greedy and Ward from playing their worst games of the year when we needed them to play well. The Browns also had guys playing on the DL whose names I barely recognize. Porter Guston and Eli Ankou each played 34 snaps. Bryan Cox Jr and Bundin Bryant also saw snaps. The Browns were totally outmanned on both sides in the trenches.

    The Browns needed to stop those deep passes, but Ward and Carrie were not up to the task. Give credit to the Duck, though - he made two spectacular throws right on the money to beat good coverage.

  • yogi8 said... (original post) Really kts?What did you enjoy more, this year's win over Baltimore, Buffalo and the first 59+ minutes of the 1st Steeler game or any game in the ...

    "We are close, we need a few pieces but we need to execute and scheme to our strengths better."

    -- That about sums up what I see. We have enough raw talent to compete and at least be taken seriously in playoff conversation. While all teams have holes that they need to fill at times, what we primarily need is a HC who can work with what he has, bring it together and figure out how to use them as best as possible.

    "Time's running out for Freddy and the Dreamers, there might be some good choices this offseason for HC to lead the team."

    -- But do we have a GM (the GM who hired Freddie in the first place, btw) who is capable enough to honestly and accurately evaluate him and humble enough to bring in a guy who's best for the Browns- even if he isn't best for Dorsey's ego? Or does Jim Bob- oh the horror- need to step in and shake things up?

  • ERGO:

    -- But do we have a GM (the GM who hired Freddie in the first place, btw) who is capable enough to honestly and accurately evaluate him and humble enough to bring in a guy who's best for the Browns- even if he isn't best for Dorsey's ego? Or does Jim Bob- oh the horror- need to step in and shake things up?

    AA:

    Not getting the constant references to Dorsey's ego.

    I would if you're conflating "ego" with a GM coaches having a similar preference for players. The Steelers and Ravens have made that their identity in this century. The coach and coordinators have schemes filled with square holes for all the square pegs the GM drafts and signs in free agency. It's not a coincidence. The GM SHOULD hire the HC, and that should be a top priority.

    It wasn't that Kitchens hasn't been a fit for Dorsey, but that Dorsey got antsy about losing Kitchens (on behalf of Mayfield) and made him an offer well above his experience level. So now it's a matter of determining whether Kitchens can eventually develop into a first rate HC, or whether there are signs that it would likely be a wasted exercise... causing another year of needless drama, and THEN (and only then) would Haslam surface.

    The last four games will be a test for the players (play for 8-8, or just go through the motions?), and if the club can clean up various acts (penalties, personal fouls, lining up with 7 seconds left on the clock) that have slowly subsided with time.

    One possible outcome, he said with a snicker? Dorsey keeps Freddie, but gives him the Hue treatment and hires coordinators with the experience and egos on a par with Haley and Williams.

  • Vaark said... (original post) ERGO:-- But do we have a GM (the GM who hired Freddie in the first place, btw) who is capable enough to honestly and accurately evaluate him and humb...

    "Dorsey got antsy about losing Kitchens (on behalf of Mayfield) and made him an offer well above his experience level."

    -- That's arguably true. But in addition to that, hiring a guy who had never even been an OC before (except by need for part of one year) would also guarantee Dorsey that he didn't have any experienced guy coming in and impacting his control over how the team would be handled. Win/win.

    Call it what you want: Ego, let's all be on the same page, no arguments means a happy FO, whatever. Which may mean- I repeat: may mean- that Dorsey let his desire for supreme and unchallenged control to cloud his vision when it came time to decide on the HC last year. Which further may mean that Dorsey isn't being the best GM that Haslam is paying him to be. Which further may mean: Who knows?

    "The Steelers and Ravens have made that their identity in this century. The coach and coordinators have schemes filled with square holes for all the square pegs the GM drafts and signs in free agency. It's not a coincidence. The GM SHOULD hire the HC, and that should be a top priority."

    -- Indeed. And how that has been done has resulted in success for the most part. Which- based on what we've seen this year from the Browns- may be the key difference. Theory is all well and good. How you execute that theory is the real deal. Which is what needs to be looked at this off-season.

  • Vaark said... (original post) ERGO:-- But do we have a GM (the GM who hired Freddie in the first place, btw) who is capable enough to honestly and accurately evaluate him and humb...

    SD:

    He's already got Monken in place, the next move is to make him give up play calling ala the Haley Hue engagement serenade.

    Most normal coaches get their back up at this point and call it splits , .Only the desperate hang on and accept the neutering .

    The only successful step down from duties that seemed to have been successful IIRC, was when Holmgren gave up GM and coaching and concentrated solely on coaching ditto Doc Rivers as the Clipper GM and coach in the NBA.

    Marty IIRC lost two gigs over his kid and play calling ,once to change out his coordinator and another time when he was asked to forfeit the duty .

    I see stubborn boneheaded won't run the football when he knows it's best Freddy ,getting his back up and walking over this issue, rather than growing up and taking the right step to become a real HC.

    That is , if he's even given the option , which is no sure bet with this crew.

    >>>>>

    SoulDawg

  • SoulDawg74 said... (original post) SD:He's already got Monken in place, the next move is to make him give up play calling ala the Haley Hue engagement serenade.Most normal co...

    "He's already got Monken in place, the next move is to make him give up play calling ala the Haley Hue engagement serenade."

    -- There is the Monken Factor, for sure. Dorsey brought him in for some reason... IF Freddie and the Browns part ways in the off-season, Monken would be an interesting possible HC. On the other hand, would Baker and other parts of the team be down with that? Monken may be seen as a back-stabber if he took the job.

    "I see stubborn boneheaded won't run the football when he knows it's best Freddy ,getting his back up and walking over this issue, rather than growing up and taking the right step to become a real HC.
    That is , if he's even given the option , which is no sure bet with this crew."

    -- It'll be an interesting off-season... The shame of all of this is that I have the suspicion that it could have been avoided if Dorsey had just manned up as the GM and had really shaped the team last year in the best way possible. It seems we have semi-wasted a year that would have been best spent getting the team set up for a solid future of success. However it plays out, I hope we can steady the boat we already have without sinking it.

    Edit: Let me add this possible scenario. In this act, Dorsey is a clever genius GM:

    After the team went 7-8-1, he reads the room and realizes 2 things: 1) Freddie is in no way ready to be a HC but 2) he is the popular choice in several ways (perhaps Jim Bob likes his Southern accent) and he is Baker's BFF. So: He names Freddie as the HC while also bringing in a guy he really thinks is ready to be a HC. Namely Todd Monken. The roster moves he makes aren't Freddie-related. While they may impact Freddie's rookie year, to Dorsey it's just a throw-away year anyway forced on him by circumstance. These are just moves to improve the roster as he sees best for the long-term and to be used by the next real HC.

    Freddie can sink or swim. If he somehow swims, all is fine, Dorsey is a god, the Browns do well and good-bye Monken. But if- as Dorsey assumes will happen- he sinks, Dorsey can ride to the rescue, "reluctantly" fire Freddie and hire Monken. The guy he really wanted in the 1st place. Sure the team is a year back, but Baker, Jim Bob and the mob made it happen. To Dorsey, it's in no way his fault.

    Crazy? Sure. Crazy enough to be true...

    This post was edited by ergoipso 1 month ago

  • Vaark said... (original post) HAM:They are a good defense not a good team! All we had to do was play solid football to win it. WE have more talent period. You can dissect they gam...

    Steelers are bigger, and more physical.

    I think we need to figure out how to retool the team to beat them in the upcoming years. Build the OL, DL.

    Culture change is needed too.

  • Gameface64 said... (original post) I've said this a million times, but I'll say it again. The Steelers are the best team in the entire league at finding WR's. They ...

    That is what I meant by a retooling...we need to build our team to beat them over and over again. We should have gotten our first sweep since '88.

    Fundamentally I hated the OBJ trade but convinced myself it was the right thing. I was wrong as usual.

    BUILD THE TRENCHES and let the skills players play within themselves with the reassurance we have good protection for #6.

  • yogi8 said... (original post) Really kts?What did you enjoy more, this year's win over Baltimore, Buffalo and the first 59+ minutes of the 1st Steeler game or any game in the ...

    I am serious. I do like our good wins this year, but the reason why I say full-on rebuild (2-3 years) is that culture change starts at the top. Build it from the bottom up, and do it right this time. Dorsey didn't understand the importance of OL and I hope our cap stays solid. He was let go from KC for mismanagement, I think.

    Build the lines to complement our skills players, get better at drafting in rounds 3-6, and a new coach.

    That way, if we get hit by injuries like the Steelers did, we can plug and play our way to a playoff shot, EVEN WHEN THINGS ARE BREAKING DOWN. They are having a very Browns-like season in terms of injuries.