How do we fix this? 2 drafts away.

How do we fix this? 2 drafts away.

  • Pitt has an amazing D I wish we had.
    They might get in at 10-6. I wonder if our D is too light.

    Dorsey is Accorsi. He doesn't get the importance of OL and we have a 1990 or 1999 situation right now.

  • Discussion
  • Coaching continuity would be nice, let guys play in the same system for a change.

  • JerrySherk said... (original post) Coaching continuity would be nice, let guys play in the same system for a change.

    -- Oddly enough, continuity is like it's opposite: Change. They can both be good or bad.

    Don't fix it if it's not broke. Don't leave it broke if you can fix it.

    Eh. The Browns lost. The Squeelers, Rats and even the Bungles won. It's a cold, wet and dreary Sunday.

  • ergoipso said... (original post) -- Oddly enough, continuity is like it's opposite: Change. They can both be good or bad. Don't fix it if it's not broke. Don't ...

    I just don't see light at the end of the tunnel for this team.

    We are still 2 drafts away.

  • kosartoslaughter said... (original post) I just don't see light at the end of the tunnel for this team.We are still 2 drafts away.

    "I just don't see light at the end of the tunnel for this team."

    -- It's there. We saw a glimmer of it at the end of last year when we went 7-8-1 and just knew we were going to keep progressing with Lord Dorsey at the helm.

    Let's just say the Lord led us astray this year a little bit. Or that the candle he gave us was poorly lit and has sputtered for the moment. It seems the Browns have treaded water since last year while the Rats have swum for shore. We're seeing a lot less than we expected to see.

    A very serious and independent evaluation of the power structure needs to be Job 1 in the off-season. 3 choices: Stay with what we have, simply make tweaks to what exists or do a major re-set. No worries. The Haslams got this...

  • You’ve been saying we’re 2-3 drafts away for years now, it seems to me- I disagree. The players we have are adequate to compete now. The coaching, schemes, and adjustments are inadequate.

    We’d have been better off with Gregg and Kitchens as OC- that would have been continuity from last year.

  • The Browns are still second in the league in cap space, although no longer by a huge margin. They also have all their draft picks (except 5th round) plus an extra 3rd rounder. And they're the second youngest team in the league.

    Maybe one draft, a couple of solid free agent signings, and the maturation of the rookies and second-year players on the roster.

    Potential setbacks would be if Schobert and/or Greg Robinson left in free agency. Possibly Demetrious Randall although it's hard to see the Browns extending him after he was left home for the huge Steelers rematch.

  • The biggest problem is we have coaches who run a scheme that does not compliment our players skill sets. Ward and Greedy are being used incorrectly. Our LB's do not have the speed necessary to run this scheme. We don't have a SS and Randall will be gone after this season and Redwine is horrible. Mack will have to make a giant leap next year or we are screwed. We need LB, SS, OLB, FS badly... where are we going to get them?

    On the offensive side of the ball we are loaded at WR and yet we do not have a single Tackle on this team and our RG is bad. How do we fix OL when the best OT FA is 38 years old? When they list Robbinson as the third best FA LT then you know we are screwed. We either need to spend some draft capital to move up and grab our LT or be prepared to have Robbinson sign another 1 year deal... Yeah its going to be that bad next year too. Expect them to sign some big name FA LB's and hopefully a SS. I am hoping Von Bell is the guy we target. He would be perfect on this team. I think we have to use our First Round pick and whatever other ammo we got to move up and get our LT even if its next years #1. It's that bad and they are going to go fast once the QB's come of the board because there are a couple good ones.

  • There's a limit to what can be done in one year. Dorsey has corrected the Browns lack of talent at the skill positions. To do that he has built in a hefty cap hit. He has acquired a FQB.

    He got Robinson who has the draft pedigree to see if he could get himself on track. So far he has not.

    I expect this offseason to be dedicated to addressing that offensive line. I expect him to address it primarily through the draft because he can get top talent with low cost for 4 years allowing him to pay the skill position talent and defensive stars.

    I also expect him to address DLINE depth which was poor so far. That might come from Free Agency since he will look for Good vets.

    That final thing he has to do is look deeply at the leadership of the team. Garrett and OBJ are not team leaders. Supremely talented but not leaders. They get to involved in their own stats to be leaders.

    The leaders have to be Baker, Chubbs, Hunt and Landry. They have to be supported and amplified. On D the leaders have to be Shobert, Burnett, Richardson and Vernon. Any Free agents signed have to have been team captains at some time. The Browns need players who are dedicated to their craft and place the team above all else.

    On the staff, assuming Freddie stays...some of the position coaches need to be changed. Other than the QB coach, which ones is arguable. But Campen hasn't shown me anything, I thought he was a great oline coach but the oline has underperformed compared to last year. Talent is part of it at the tackles and rg, but I don't see consistency or good technique (as far as this non expert can see).

    I see no reason this ship can't be righted in one season. It can take an additional year if a new HC is brought in if that new HC brings in a new offense.

    This post was edited by Gary Reents 1 month ago

  • Gary Reents said... (original post) There's a limit to what can be done in one year. Dorsey has corrected the Browns lack of talent at the skill positions. To do that he has ...

    "I can take an additional year if a new HC is brought in if that new HC brings in a new offense."

    -- I would add on to that last line: "... and is able to evaluate the talent he has and use it effectively while demanding a disciplined approach on game-day."

    Teams have holes and the Browns- being a WIP- have several holes. But this year under Freddie it seems he isn't getting the best out of what he has.

  • ergoipso said... (original post) "I can take an additional year if a new HC is brought in if that new HC brings in a new offense."-- I would add on to that last line: &q...

    I'm actually bewildered about why so much has changed since last year. On offense, I mean. Last year Freddie had the offense humming with the same offensive line sans one. They just aren't as focused or consistent as he had them last year.

    Nonetheless, the offense can be explosive with an at best average offensive line. So address that line and see what happens

  • G
    I'm actually bewildered about why so much has changed since last year. On offense, I mean. Last year Freddie had the offense humming with the same offensive line sans one. They just aren't as focused or consistent as he had them last year.

    H
    Last year Freddie was new. low expectations by opposing defenses. Baker was new. Freddie incorporate more college schemes for Baker to react too. This year with all the hype defenses schemed us far more and took us far more serious. Opposing players wanted to rub our collective noses in it for the over hype.

    Freddie was exposed as a result. Look at the lack of discipline and how long to correct just penalties. Last year the targets were limited. This year we have too many for Freddie to understand how to satisfy. The biggest reason is simple. Freddie can't or won't adjust game day. He comes in with a script. After a few drives defenses adjust and we don't. He just isn't that good as a OC let alone HC. When we go off script we see chaos. Baker panics. This put more stress on the Oline and they start to fall apart. Wilks is the biggest joke right now in the NFL. Every time we build momentum Wilks defense destroys it. Finally the T shirt is a example how bad Freddie is as a leader. He is becoming a punch line not a HC. He rallied the team last year after Huey was throwing players under the bus and creating internal divisions. Freddie was a buddy to all. This year a coach not a buddy was needed. He is overwhelmed and outmatched and worse of all Stubborn. Did you hear his presser? He said NOHING is wrong with his play calling, Nothing is needed to be changed. Its all on the players not executing. Not one aspect of growth is seen on his part or the teams part except FINALLY reducing penalties. No excuse what so ever to lose to the Steelers this far into the season. None! Look what 'coaching' did last year. This year is coaching again because Freddie has been exposed.

  • Gary Reents said... (original post) I'm actually bewildered about why so much has changed since last year. On offense, I mean. Last year Freddie had the offense humming with ...

    "Nonetheless, the offense can be explosive with an at best average offensive line. So address that line and see what happens"

    -- Yes to addressing the line. But first things first this off-season. You note that "much has changed since last year" on the O. The biggest thing is that our by-necessity OC has been given the HC role after having zero experience in key decision-making roles throughout his long career. We also- for some reason- have a new QB coach. That could have possibly worked out well. Actual feed-back from games played would indicate otherwise.

    Unless Dorsey claims he sees things differently, that's the first area to look into.

  • Gary Reents said... (original post) There's a limit to what can be done in one year. Dorsey has corrected the Browns lack of talent at the skill positions. To do that he has ...

    SD:

    Preaching to the choir on OBJ and Garrett ,the OBJ experiment was a collossal whiff ,

    as too Vernon , we relieved theGiants of an enormous Cap hit Albatross and got Journeyman production for our grief.

    The Browns would be better served trading OBJ to Washington for their LT than bringing his recalcitrant azz back, that would shift the noise in the receiver room which is mistaken for leadership back to the QB room where it belongs .

    Baker can then proceed unintimidated by the La Mafia he has to deal with and walk done now.

    Dorsey really screwed the team chemistry , by adding a receiver who doesn't answer to anybody let alone his QB , it lost us Perriman who was highly productive in this setting and it allowed Callaway to slip thru the cracks as the forgotten man , where he didn't put in the work thinking forwhat since I won't be playing anyway.

    Worse Freddy didn't go forward , he went Rock star backwards and joined the band instead of directing their careers.

    The entire team took on the aura of being butthead stupid entitled and believed they had arrived when they had never ever even left the farm.

    Smelling themselves from the GM on down they pronounced themselves fit and ready , without even the need to play in the X games ...……..……..…For what ?

    Mathematically the Browns can finish 9-7 and end up with a tie for the last wildcard spot should the inbred lose .

    But I don't sense the fire and desire needed to buck up in this bunch and go after it like that, which I'm hoping to be proven wrong about.

    I expect a win this Sunday because thats what we do follow a stinker with a credible game, setting up the drama of the prospect to tease us all over what might have been with the inbred unexpectantly loosing the same week setting up the pivotal Baltimore game for both franchises.

    Certainly smells of DejaVu when we went 10-6 and needed help last game of the year to get in .

    Highly doubt Harbaugh pulls a Tony Dungy and lays down like a stinking mangy flea bitten dog .

    >>>>>

    SoulDawg

  • hamster said... (original post) GI'm actually bewildered about why so much has changed since last year. On offense, I mean. Last year Freddie had the offense humming with the ...

    "Freddie has been exposed."

    -- Let's assume that's true. If so, then it all comes back to Dorsey. Why did he name Freddie as his HC? Fear that Freddie would walk if kept as OC? Fear that Baker would be angry? Fear that Jim Bob and the great unwashed masses would be unhappy? Is letting fear be your driving force an efficient way for a GM to operate? Or did he completely misread an important hire and really believed Freddie was The Guy compared to his other options? Again, is that the sign of a competent GM?

    The other possibility is that Dorsey had serious doubts about Freddie, but knew he was Baker's and many other people's Flavor of the Week. To keep them happy for the moment, he named Freddie as a throw-away HC for this year while also bringing Todd Monken into the fold for future use if needed. Any other moves he made- rightly or wrongly- were done simply to improve the roster for any HC.

  • SoulDawg74 said... (original post) SD:Preaching to the choir on OBJ and Garrett ,the OBJ experiment was a collossal whiff ,as too Vernon , we relieved theGiants of an enormous Cap ...

    "The Browns would be better served trading OBJ to Washington for their LT than bringing his recalcitrant azz back, that would shift the noise in the receiver room which is mistaken for leadership back to the QB room where it belongs."

    The acquisition of OBJ just never made much sense to me.....my impression of him was always one of a Diva who was easily distracted on the playing field (see his cat fight with Josh Norman a couple years ago)....not really Dorsey's kind of lunch bucket guy.

    But, I tried to stay enthusiastic as we all dreamed of Baker slinging it to him and Jarvis....and the honeymoon period seemed to go well. Then came the disappearance from OTAs....the zero playing time in the preseason games....the imprecise routes.....the illegal visor....the watch....the shoes....the "we have to force feed OBJ" mantra....the inevitable post game questions for Freddie and Baker as to why OBJ didn't get more opportunities.....etc....etc.

    It never stops....and then I realized he's just the guy I thought he was when he was with the Giants....a super talented guy who can, at times, take over a game....but, not a guy you want to hitch your wagon to for the long term.

    Even Sunday, when he finally makes a play for a 20 yard gain, his first reaction is to bark at the sideline and let everybody know he can do that whenever he wants to.....he's always playing the role he sees himself in....never just playing the game.

    It may well be that we find out after the season is over that he has been playing injured.....with the hip or whatever the reason was that he skipped the preseason games. GF mentioned in an earlier thread that, with a few exceptions, we really haven't seen the explosiveness and acceleration from OBJ that we've seen in the past.

    I don't really know the answer as to why weren't not seeing the type of production from him that we all anticipated when the deal was made.....but, we're not.....and without that kind of production, the other baggage he brings becomes more onerous.

    So, yeah....if Dorsey can mitigate his initial mistake in acquiring OBJ, by offloading him for some value, then I say have at it. He's already made his love for the Patriots well known....so, maybe we can entice Belichick to ante up a pick or two if your Trent Brown idea doesn't come to fruition.

  • Gary Reents said... (original post) I'm actually bewildered about why so much has changed since last year. On offense, I mean. Last year Freddie had the offense humming with ...

    Most people are going to say low expectations or they didn't have a book on Freddie or Baker. The real difference between this year and last year is two fold

    1. Last year the pocket NEVER collapsed up the middle. All the pressure came from the outside and enabled Baker to step up easily. This is probably more critical for a short QB than a taller one. Bitonio, Tretter and Zeitler kept the pressure off Baker so he could step into his throws and allow him to see the field better. Once you took away Zeitler the interior had a big hole in it and this year you see pressure coming up the middle all the time. It's why Baker is skitish this year. He never had that issue in college and it obviously shook him a bit. Getting rid of Zeitler is THE single biggest mistake Dorsey did this offseason. If you want to see an immediate improvement add a high-level right guard and everything will start clicking again.

    2. Coaching is suspect. Campden is horrible. He hasn't coached a decent OL in years and rested on the fact that AR would get the ball out so fast it would make him look good. We need a good OL coach. Zampese is light years ahead of the idiot we have coaching the QB's now and Baker has regressed. Finally its comes down to Freddie being in charge. Last year we had a defensive minded coach having final say and probably neutered Freddies inner 'Tin Cup' a bit. Now we got full fledged self-destruct mode play calling.

  • SoulDawg74 said... (original post) SD:Preaching to the choir on OBJ and Garrett ,the OBJ experiment was a collossal whiff ,as too Vernon , we relieved theGiants of an enormous Cap ...

  • SoulDawg74 said... (original post) SD:Preaching to the choir on OBJ and Garrett ,the OBJ experiment was a collossal whiff ,as too Vernon , we relieved theGiants of an enormous Cap ...

    How can you expect players to put in off season work when their coach plainly tells them to get clear away from football. That has to be one of the dumbest things a rookie has ever been told. You got this down man, now go do something else until your needed again. No need to wonder why most of the national media thinks of him after Lanes ATI answer, and these types of things leads them right there.

  • mythrand said... (original post) Most people are going to say low expectations or they didn't have a book on Freddie or Baker. The real difference between this year and last ...

    Losing Zeitler hurt more than we know because Hubbard is the worst OL they have, and a guy not ready has to play beside him. Whole right side actually sucks canal water

  • ergoipso said... (original post) "Freddie has been exposed."-- Let's assume that's true. If so, then it all comes back to Dorsey. Why did he name Freddie as hi...

    Dorsey wasn't able to pick the HC. I think Haslam and Dee had to sign on. Maybe one of those two conceded to their spouse, but there is no way these owners just let Dorsey make the pick of HC. We know there were two factions, one wanted FK and one wanted Stef...whatever. So the owners settled the dispute. That's my read. FK was probably Dorsey's choice, but he didn't make the final decision no matter if it happened in a meeting with everyone present.

    The Browns have shown a lack of discipline that was not present last season. At least not in the second half of the season. Maybe that's because they read FK as a good ole boy and they could relax and get by with stuff. Clearly, some of the players believed the preseason hype and expected to just dominate without the attention to detail. Letting them get to the season that way is on Freddie.

    Rookie mistakes by rookie HC. I still say you can't fire FK for making those mistakes. The team bought those mistakes when they hired him and they have to let him learn.

    Now, after the season there has to be an honest assessment of the weaknesses of the existing coaching staff and their processes. In game calls. Gameplanning. In game adjustments, etc. Those have to be addressed. The staff has to be changed to some degree. Freddie has to agree to changes that help the team. If the players have to put team first so does Freddie.

    The team needs another veteran leader or two. Especially on defense. Someone who knows how to play big downs and understands the situation and can transmit that to the team. I don't see that on the defense at the moment.

  • Leadership is needed desperately. The coaching has been sub par at best. Nothing, and I mean nothing, has gelled. Decent engine, tuned by amateur mechanics using kitchen utensils.

  • Gary Reents said... (original post) Dorsey wasn't able to pick the HC. I think Haslam and Dee had to sign on. Maybe one of those two conceded to their spouse, but there is no ...

    "FK was probably Dorsey's choice, but he didn't make the final decision no matter if it happened in a meeting with everyone present."

    -- Then why did he reach out and bring in Monken? Just a guy to help Freddie by taking some of the O load off him as he took on the added responsibilities of a HC? No Plan B there in case Freddie crashed and burned as a HC after being a career-long position coach?

    "Rookie mistakes by rookie HC. I still say you can't fire FK for making those mistakes. The team bought those mistakes when they hired him and they have to let him learn."

    -- Possibly true. But his public comments seem to indicate he doesn't see a learning curve in any of this. If he in fact doesn't seem able or willing to look in the mirror and make adjustments as needed to his own performance, I'd say that increases the chance that Dorsey/Jim Bob will think of going Plan B or Plan C.

    Since all of us are replaceable, the real question to me seems to be: Is there a better choice as HC out there than Freddie for this WIP team as they try to get off the ground? At least, I hope that question gets asked this off-season.

  • Gary Reents said... (original post) Dorsey wasn't able to pick the HC. I think Haslam and Dee had to sign on. Maybe one of those two conceded to their spouse, but there is no ...

    "The team needs another veteran leader or two. Especially on defense. Someone who knows how to play big downs and understands the situation and can transmit that to the team. I don't see that on the defense at the moment."

    Couldn't agree more....I can't remember the last time we had a real leader of the defense....maybe Don Rogers back in the mid 80s or Eric Turner back in the early 90s?? Clay Matthews??...or Dixon and Minnifield??....back in the glory days.

    I was hoping Peppers could grow into that role for us....but, that ship has sailed. Our two most talented players on defense....Myles and Denzel....don't really have the personality for it.

    Until we do find someone, our defense is gonna continue to be average.

  • Gary Reents said... (original post) There's a limit to what can be done in one year. Dorsey has corrected the Browns lack of talent at the skill positions. To do that he has built ...


    He hasn't done enough with the OL. Accorsi failed with the same issues.
    Can Dorsey make it to 2021?

    Pittsburgh loss ended the season. This win today feels meh but first time since 1992 we will get splits at the minimum in our division. They needed to be 7-6 or 8-5 after this game. Should have beat Denver and Pittsburgh on the road. Worst loss in years last week.

    This post was edited by kosartoslaughter 1 month ago