Let me just say this about that.

Let me just say this about that.

  • Don't know how many of you were watching the Browns when Belichick was coach, but his first two seasons were just like this one for the Browns. He had less talent but his play calling was continually being questioned. His teams made penalties at all the worst times. He looked completely out of his depth. Anyone remember the number of times Metcalf fumbled? Or Hoard? A ton.

    So, I'd like to see the fans back off Freddie. I think he's pretty solid. Has some things to learn obviously, they all have to. But it sure looks to me like he's learning.

    Like I said in the other thread, the coaching staff under Freddie has to be reworked. Lindley either has to be fired and replaced, or reassigned and replaced. He's the obvious worst offender.

    I'm very disappointed in the oline coach. I expected real improvement in the oline under Campen and it is only just now showing some solid play in pass protection. Clearly the oline will be an emphasis this offseason.

  • Discussion
  • Gary Reents said... (original post) Don't know how many of you were watching the Browns when Belichick was coach, but his first two seasons were just like this one for the Br...

    You say Freddie is "pretty solid". In some ways, I agree. You also say he "has some things to learn". Uh, yeah, I think we can all agree on that.

    The question is: Was this "pretty solid" career position coach who "has some things to learn" the correct guy for Dorsey to rush into being HC on a team that was itself learning how to function together as it started to improve? Especially when there were other options right in front of his face that he could have chosen. While still making Freddie the OC so he could learn the things he needed to learn. Including prep work for becoming a HC at some point.

    Backing off Freddie isn't the real issue. The real issue is how our GM is doing managing a team on the cusp. Freddie is front and center in the public eye and an easy target. The correct target should be an evaluation of how the GM, who put him front and center in the first place, is doing. Putting band-aids on by replacing the QB coach or by drafting o-line players doesn't address the issue of whether or not our lead horse is doing his job efficiently. The wound that calls for those types of band-aids was in fact made by Dorsey.

    But yeah, let's leave Freddie alone and let him arrange the deck chairs just how he wants to.

  • It's laughable you are comparing BB to Kitchens. BB when he came to Cleveland was known throughout the league as a defensive mastermind. He had lots of Coordinator experience and put together one of the best coaching staffs seen in football, Ferentz, Saban and a ton more. Kitchens is a shadow of BB. He has zero coordinator experience and hasn't won as a coordinator. He has zero organizational skills which is apparent how he runs his team. BB was a no nonsense guy Freddy can't even control what shoes his players wear.

  • G
    So, I'd like to see the fans back off Freddie

    Back off a player or coach? Freddie doesn't get a free pass any more than Dorsey, Assistant coaches, players or owner?

    Dorsey, is getting slammed for hiring Freddie. That comes when making decisions. You have no problem throwing the assistant coaches under the buss but not the one who hired and oversees them? Really? Freddie wanted the gig. He knew going in that 'he' would be responsible for ALL under him. Coaches, players on both sides of the ball. He felt he was MORE than ready. He shouted he could handle it. He is the one who decided not to delegate responsibility of offensive schemes, play calling & the results of it. Until he gets it right (if he ever does) he is game every bit far game and an even bigger target than anyone else.

    This post was edited by hamster 8 months ago

  • Gary Reents said... (original post) Don't know how many of you were watching the Browns when Belichick was coach, but his first two seasons were just like this one for the Br...


    I'll be more than happy to back off Freddie , give me a great shot to get a running start so I can jump and then put both feet in his azz.

    As a droid , I know conceptually its hard for you to understand the things like having your finger on the pulse of the team or the simple nuances of focus intensity and situational football, but as the HC of a football team its a critical command deficiency .

    The dumb bastard has shelved everything that got him this job , the growth and development of the teams FQB .

    The stoopid phucker is as bad as these ignorant sheet for Brains paid off NFL refs thinking people game to see them.

    Mfer destroys the Rats using last years concepts ,then shelves that part of the playbook so he can engage in his fantasies of being a Bruce Arians offense deep ball clone.

    He's pissed the season away, by indulging himself in this ludicrous hubris ,crippled the confidence of his QB and demoralized the entire team by stubbornly refusing to engage in solid normal football which entails playing to your strengths and hiding your weaknesses.

    His situational play calling alone can be directly attributed to three losses over and above the player mistakes ,which include dropped passes fumbles lack of intensity and the mental frailty they've exhibited to date .

    I get the dynamic and situational handicap inherent in that players think they're only answerable to Dorsey like when players would go behind Mumbles enabled through Farts mechanizations but that hardly gives him a pass for this absolute disjointed abysmal mess ,where the once promising QB talent who got him this job has been forgotten while he engages himself in his own fantasies.

    How do you not go to WIlKS and ask him WTF are you doing and where the hell is the pressure on the Denver first time ever QB , how do you not get in Garretts azz , even Hue Jackson sorry **** could manage that much , how do you allow these two ignorant azz receivers to ride your FQB into the ground like he's a stable hand, never mind Dorsey's hand up his butt , what mushrooms has this fool been indulging in that makes him think people want to see him , instead of that offense which bred success hope and earned him this job on the back of his QB's success.

    Guys make mistakes, its unfortunately part and parcel to learning and growing .

    But its one thing to piss on that toilet seat because your so stupid , you don't know any better quite another after you've been told and our too fckn lazy stubborn or just plain stupid , to lift the Muthafckn seat.

    That fool pulls his nonsense verse the Yeti kid you where duped into swearing was a legit NFL QB while he allows Baker to continue to flounder because he won't run the offense which eviscerated the Rats .

    You 'll be able to have your pity party for him on a personal level because he'll be unemployed and available long before this season ends.

    Oh fer at home and another embarrassing stint after this weekend , and Freddie doesn't sniff another week .

    he's now coaching for his life and its now week to week



  • From ProFootballFocus after the Denver game....

    "The Cleveland Browns remain a frustrating product of everything being out of sync, particularly on offense. The structural components are all there, but much like an engine whose timing is off, without that final tuning, the entire system grinds to a halt. Baker Mayfield still misses too many routine throws, his receivers are too often on different pages, the line is far from a strength and the playcalling isn’t necessarily helping any of them out. Mayfield’s average time to throw this week was notably faster than earlier in the year, but too many problems remain for this team to realize its potential without significant changes."

    Yes, everything seems to be "out of sync". How much of that should be laid at the feet of the HC?

    I'd say quite a bit of it. But the penalties were way down against Denver and the turnovers were eliminated. The Browns scored 19 points on the third best defense in the NFL according to Football Outsiders, and they would have got 3 or 7 more if Mayfield got a good spot on that QB sneak. The team still has a huge red zone problem, but things are settling down a bit. I think it's important, however, for this team to look like a well-disciplined, well-coached team the rest of the season for Freddie to keep his job.

  • Yep, Game. And anyone who disagrees with the premise should read God,s Coach the story of the worst coach in the NFL...Tom Landry. Fool played little Eddie LeBaron over the number one pick in the draft... Don Meredith. Clipping his wings and getting quality assistants put him on the path to the hall of fame.

  • ergoipso said... (original post) You say Freddie is "pretty solid". In some ways, I agree. You also say he "has some things to learn". Uh, yeah, I think we can all agree on that. ...

    Then again, the call may have been made by she who wears the pants.
  • Check your PM Gary.

  • I'll say this, the reason for all the hype before the season was the work Freddie had done with Mayfield and the entire offense at the end of last year. What's changed? Dorsey bringing in Monken in a effort to recreate the KC offense, that's what changed.

    How soon you all forget that Dorsey, when he couldn't get Hue or Haley to play Chubb, traded our starting RB to force Nick into the lineup. He was determined to get his way no matter what. What makes you all think it's any different now?

    The only control Freddie has over the entire team is the play calling sheet, why do you think he holds onto so tight?

    He's calling the plays, but he's not designing the offense SD. Freddie made concessions to get the gig, what he didn't realize at the time was that Dorsey was setting him up as the fall guy if JD's plan didn't work.

    Why do you think it looks so dysfunctional? Because Freddie is in charge but it's not his plan, it's Dorsey's

    How blind are you people?

  • Gary Reents said... (original post) Don't know how many of you were watching the Browns when Belichick was coach, but his first two seasons were just like this one for the Br...

    I get this, and felt BB was turning the Browns around here, but if they go 11 personnel and have two stud backs, I'm not sure what else to say.

    BB turned around a 1990 team WORSE than the 0-16 Hue team in 2017 and made them a playoff team in 1994. That's still a shining moment for me and Exhibit A of how BB was starting to overcome TCE and the culture. But he couldn't beat the Steelers b/c we didn't have the right linebackers at the time that could run with receivers (instead of spot-dropping, as was common practice then).

    I know NTRPRZ on the Cooler has said FK is solid and learning, and that the problems lie on the defense and inexperience.

    A lot of solid points, but the problem is fans are restless and Baker's contract is up in 2021 so there's a bit of urgency.


  • redright said... (original post) Then again, the call may have been made by she who wears the pants.

    You know, I have been half-wondering if somehow the Haslams didn't hassle Dorsey in the HC search last year. Certainly the anointing of a career position coach as HC- based on the performance of not even one complete season as OC- sounds more like the clueless maneuvers of non-football people than of an experienced GM. But Dorsey is theoretically in charge of football affairs, so he gets the blame until further notice. Not just about whether it was smart or not to hire Freddie as rookie HC of an up and coming WIP. But about several of his moves since the team went 7-8-1 last year.

    There's always the possibility that this is a "learning curve" for Freddie and that the team will start to look well-coached by the end of the season. But that possibility seems far away now. Speaking of far away, doesn't it seem like a long time ago that we all couldn't wait for the season to begin and marvel at the splendor of the team that Freddie was going to unveil on opening day? Ah, the good old days...

  • redright said... (original post) Then again, the call may have been made by she who wears the pants.

    Interesting redright. From what I know and from what others in my personal life who know the Browns have told me, Dee is an alpha.