Removing Freddie

Removing Freddie

  • 8 games in and moronic Browns fans are calling for yet another coaching change. Let's ponder that and what other changes might very well result.

    First off, who you gonna get? Dorsey wants TOTAL control of all things. Who's gonna sign up for that? What if Haslam steps in? Does Dorsey stay if JH3 meddles?

    Is Dorsey really going to have Mayfield work with a new HC and OC 3 years in a row?

    What of OBJ and Landry? Finding someone to work with those 2 might be as hard as finding someone to take on a mouthy punk QB who was drafted #1 overall by the current GM. Not everyone likes BM. What if new guy secretly hates him and wants his own QB? You know, someone who can see from the pocket.

    And last but not least. Who's going to sign up for this s*** storm knowing the fans have sky high expectations and absolutely no patience? Yeah, I can see the line forming already.

    No Browns fans, anything less than a total 0-fer finish and Freddie gets year 2. Another change just sets the team back another 2 years. Besides, Freddie has already done better in 8 games than Hue did in 2 years.

  • Discussion
  • poppa9601 said... (original post) 8 games in and moronic Browns fans are calling for yet another coaching change. Let's ponder that and what other changes might very well res...

    Oh, Freddie is a step up from Hue. But that's such a low bar that I think we're past that. That's like saying Haslam is a better owner than RandyJams. Yeah, but still...

    You make solid points in the affect that changing coaches in mid-stream would have. One choice- brought in by Czar Dorsey- is, of course, Todd Monken. Just saying. I agree with you that if Freddie shows some improvement in his HC-skills as the year progresses he'll be around next year. Which may be for the best. But if he doesn't, then a guy like Todd Monken won't have a tough act to follow this next post-season. It may not be a Hue Jackson-type bar to get over. But close.

    I have no dog in the Monken fight. But I hear that some informed people think that dog has some teeth. And he's here now and has seen the good, the bad and the ugly. While it's getting late early in the season, there still is time for Freddie to show what he's got as a HC. I'll give him that.

    This post was edited by ergoipso 2 months ago

  • poppa9601 said... (original post) 8 games in and moronic Browns fans are calling for yet another coaching change. Let's ponder that and what other changes might very well res...

    SD:

    Freddie reverses this 2-6 and goes 6-2 coming on strong even though we probably miss the playoffs , he may well have proven himself salvageable .

    As it is now were he a draft pick , he's that kid nobody ever heard( Spergeon Wynn ) picked by Palmer in the 6th round because of his strong arm in that infamous draft where we not only bypassed the chance to tag Tom Brady with that same pick ,we also blew the choice of Kurt Warner in the expansion draft .

    When a HC gets fired , lots of families and coaches are affected ,but the Browns really don't have a choice Freddie as a HC is a clueless boob.

    He's never controlled this team , and you have a case of the lunatics running the asylum .

    Worse he caused his own demise , by capriciously going out of his way to show how stupid and stubborn he can be insisting on forcing 11 personnel with the best running back in football , operating out of a set his QB and meal ticket operates from like he's viewing Chinese arithmetic.

    You've made the argument Dorsey is forcing this on him , is he also making the in game choice to pull Chubb at every critical juncture or failed to improve Bakers overall play or simply recognizing one on one advantages presnap.

    He's not a HC stubbornly running Metcalf up the middle the Mumbles staple , the dude is a hall monitor coping a smoke with the seniors when they come out on recess .

    He doesn't wise up pull his head out of his azz and recognize what time it is and play the offense which got him the job and have Baker looking like he knows which end is up ,at home vs the Bills and gets rolled ,dude will be gone Monday before the inbred game never mind the end of the season .

    Monken is already in place and the baby oil is spread all over the shower floor.

    >>>>

    SoulDawg

  • Yeah, my bad for thinking Fred might be a southern fired Sean McVey.

  • Gameface64 said... (original post) Yeah, my bad for thinking Fred might be a southern fired Sean McVey.

    "Southern fired" or "southern fried"? A mere typo? Or the act of the next William Shakespeare?

    At any rate, the fact that the firing of Hue only 8 games into his rookie season is even being discussed is an indication of how the team under him looks and how high the expectations were given the assembled talent. If Monken truly is a guy Dorsey brought in as possibly the next HC, it actually might make sense to leave Freddie in place. Maybe a win/win. The worse he looks, the better for Monken as the next man up. And if Freddie improves, good surprise and we go from there.

    Whatever happens, I hope it's done simply with an intelligent eye as to what's best for the team. Perhaps an improvement over what happened after the team went 7-8-1 last year.

  • Southern fried, typo I think, but might have been a Freudian slip of the fingers. Or a Fredian slip if you like.

  • Gameface64 said... (original post) Southern fried, typo I think, but might have been a Freudian slip of the fingers. Or a Fredian slip if you like.

    If Freddy wears slips, that's his own business and we shouldn't judge him simply on that.

    Come to think of it, it certainly would be more politically difficult to fire a HC who appeared in drag on the side-lines. Even if the firing was about his coaching and had nothing to do with how he dressed. Maybe he should keep that in mind as an option. Playing the victim card seems to have more influence than usual these days.

  • SD:

    Year one we draft a one read QB.

    Year two he's a one read QB, who regressed and isn't even bothering to try and fool the safeties with his eyes .

    Yet people willingly buy the pablum this mook put in the work this offseason when the evidence screams otherwise .

    On Freddy .

    The damn fool thinks somebody is dropping cash to see his big dumb azz.

    Jackass is in luv with the Mike and hearing himself talk instead of paying attention to the fact that ***** he's shoveling ain't exactly making the roses bloom.

    The man is more out of his depth and detached from reality than Chrissy Palmer conducting the runaway train around deadman's curb.

    Nevermind the clock ticking, this is the lit fuse on a mission impossible opening story .

    >>>>

    SoulDawg

  • That's all good Myth, but wrong. Chubb carried the ball on 3rd down, not Hilliard. By the way, not only did Baker get hosed on the spot, but Chubb got to the 4 on the run before that. Bad spot both times. That can't be a coincidence, bad spots on back to back plays. That's BS.

  • SoulDawg74 said... (original post) SD:Year one we draft a one read QB.Year two he's a one read QB, who regressed and isn't even bothering to try and fool the safeties wi...

    Exactly what did you expect this year Dawg? Division title? Deep playoff run? SB? How long have you been watching this team?

    Yeah, Pros was going off about those things saying that coaches " feared" the Browns. But did you drink the kool-aid too? Let me adds this up for you.

    Rookie HC, Mouthy young punk QB painting targets on our backs from the jump, New offense, a O-line with a hole in the middle, New super diva WR, meddling egomaniac GM. Does that sound like a playoff team to you???? Me neither.

    There's a lot of HOF coaches who wouldn't be in the HOF if they went by their first 8 games. Just sayin.

    Nothing productive will come from replacing Freddie with another rookie HC. And yes, that's all they'll get if they fired Freddie after just 1 year. Nobody worth spit is going to jump in this meat grinder.

    This post was edited by poppa9601 2 months ago

  • poppa9601 said... (original post) That's all good Myth, but wrong. Chubb carried the ball on 3rd down, not Hilliard. By the way, not only did Baker get hosed on the spot, but ...

    Hillyard carried the ball on 3rd down. Chubb was on the sideline I am pretty sure

  • poppa9601 said... (original post) Exactly what did you expect this year Dawg? Division title? Deep playoff run? SB? How long have you been watching this team?Yeah, Pros was going ...

    SD:

    Dude get a grip the pieces were there ,but our QB played with himself all offseason and Freddie failed to dance with the date who took him to the prom.

    With any type attention to detail while starting off this season where we left off running the same scheme which had us in the hunt playing as good a football as any team in the league offensively , we easily could have been the other story this year beside the surprise 49ers.

    But they failed to heed Freddies early warnings and disbelieved the pitfalls I warned about were out there didn't put in the work and gave away their first game and four others including that stinker in Denver , where Baker finally played turnover free , but so scared of his own shadow he had to shave three times because he didn't recognize the man in the mirror.

    Simple execution sticking to the run and simplifying Bakers reads would have had us record wise right up there with anybody .

    The Baltimore game was what I expected from the outset .

    Thats what they are more than capable of producing and that Victory was hardly the full extent of this teams capabilities .

    In short they've performed in as disappointing and wasteful a fashion as that scurrilous waste

    of talent Josh Gordon with his Horsesh!t pratfalls and dumbass unfathomably ignorant stunts.

    The Bones are there to beat anybody , but collectively we have to be one of the dumbest bunch of humps ever assembled with the mental toughness of wet Charmin ,who play with the intensity of pet mice with less chemical bonding than oil and water .

    That's on Freddie Pardnuh , with all his let them be individuals *****.

    They're a team , you practice together you play together you win or lose together and pound other teams as a Fist , not singular disjointed fingers .

    >>>>>>

    SoulDawg

  • So you admit that these "individuals" failed to heed Freddie's warnings. But now somehow that's Freddie fault?
    Pick a side dude.
    That the assembled talent doesn't heed their HC's warning should tell you all you need to know. They tune him out b/c they know he's not the one in control.
    Take the bag off your head man and try to see. It's was DORSEY who benched Robinson, not Freddie. What does that tell you?
    So now knowing that Dorsey is the one who insist on being in control of all things, tell me; 1) Who else is he going to get to fill Freddies role? and 2) What will have changed?
    For someone who claims to have been watching for 62 years, you haven't learn much.

  • poppa9601 said... (original post) So you admit that these "individuals" failed to heed Freddie's warnings. But now somehow that's Freddie fault? Pick a side du...

    SD:

    Look man , I'll keep this KISS simple , so pay attention and try your best to keep up ,when you fail to meet raised expectations, somebody is gonna get scapegoated and fired .

    I'm not advocating Freddie be jacked because rookie HC's are gonna make their share of mistakes But Freddie has used up his career allotment in half a season ,so I'm just pointing out he's pulled the rope out of the shed ,made a noose tied it over a tree and climbed up on a chair to see how it fits .

    As it is unless he wakes up pulls his head out of his **** and realizes where he's at and thus accordingly makes the moves to extricate himself ,a strong wind can blow him off that perch while that rope is around his neck let alone somebody looking for culprits given a gift teed up shot and ripe opportunity , so its come down to this ,since he squandered all his chips so early .

    Unless he wins , he's gonna get hung , and he's made it so easy to take himself out , they don't have to drag his fat azz out of the shed and string him up , just kick the damn chair out from under him.

    You and Freddie don't have to ask what time it is, you've just been told!

    Best you sound it out in phonics for him if he's too dumb to read the memo

    >>>>

    SoulDawg

  • Turns out I was wrong about something. I foolishly though you had insight, but you're really just another emotional Browns fan, aren't you. Shame. I expected better from you SD.

  • Not specifically about the Bills game, I think Fred's in a catch 22 regarding OBJ. On one hand, it seems forcing the offense to seek out OBJ could limit the overall effectiveness. On the other hand, last week showed that OBJ is a weapon that needs to be activated if we're going to reach full potential. Beckham made two plays when he was blanketed, snatching the ball in traffic and then generating YAC. Not targeting him in the red zone isn't working on our behalf. Yet doing so can't become a predictable tendency.

    I get why there's talk of feeding him from both Mayfield and Landry. Fred needs to scheme some early pitch and catch scenarios, and throw in some shots downfield to get defenses from squatting on our middle routes. Everything right now is too hard. The route combinations need to improve. Too often it looks there's multiple Browns receivers clogging one area of the field.

  • Gameface64 said... (original post) Not specifically about the Bills game, I think Fred's in a catch 22 regarding OBJ. On one hand, it seems forcing the offense to seek out OB...

    "Everything right now is too hard."

    -- I think that's actually a nice summation of how the team looks. (I'll add that at times it's hard to watch as well.) And what we see on the field can partly be attributed to bad execution by the players. But most of the cause can simply be attributed to bad prep resulting from bad coaching. Add to that bad game management. The players aren't perfect, of course. And there still are holes on the roster. But what we are seeing each week doesn't appear to be a good use of the talent we do have.

    Our HC may turn out to need to have his name changed to Freddie "PeterPrinciple" Kitchens. We shall see. If so, then the GM who forced the team to endure the Peter Principle in their HC needs to be held accountable as well.

  • poppa9601 said... (original post) Turns out I was wrong about something. I foolishly though you had insight, but you're really just another emotional Browns fan, aren't ...

    SD:

    Don't hate the playa ,Hate the game .

    Just the messenger , you don't like the message , best you PM Freddie he's the only one who can do something about it.

    >>>>

    SoulDawg

  • Talk about a Catch 22. Most of the people bitching about Fred right now (maybe not you) would have been screaming bloody murder if Dorsey had let Kitchens walk to another team. Imagine if some new coach was having the same issues melding the team (not unlikely), Dorsey would have been lynched. No, I get it. And I get bringing in an experienced, successful OC to help. One who would subjugate his desire to call plays. Very few guys fitting that description floating around at any time.

    I'm not down on Dorsey. I wish everything would have worked out great, but there's no sure-fire formula to fixing the Browns as we well know. I'll take Dorsey's proactive efforts over any of the mooks who proceeded him. Just the thought of Fats Holmgren riding around TC in a golf cart smoking a cigarette heats up my blood. Banner? Kokinis? Sheinbox? A cavalcade of creeps content to do nothing but cash their checks and stall for time. Ineptitude? Run by Mangini, Farmer, Shurmur......ugh.

  • There's an additional catch 22 at work here. Mayfield's being told to cut it loose and play fearlessly, but he's also taken a severe beatdown for the number of picks. He says he doesn't care about stats, but I don't know how he could possibly block out the static around his ranking. He's gun shy, and scared to put it into the tight windows. Just my opinion, but the offensive schemes or lack of execution (pick one) just aren't giving him the easy completions and successes to build up a margin of error. Get a couple long drives and touchdowns and he might start feeling like his old gunslinging self.

  • Gameface64 said... (original post) Talk about a Catch 22. Most of the people bitching about Fred right now (maybe not you) would have been screaming bloody murder if Dorsey had le...

    SD:

    I wanted Freddy to work (and still want him to work) as bad as man coming off a desert graves water .

    But the losses attributed directly to his own ineptness solely on his part with his decisions over and above the teams undisciplined helter skelter performances have shortened his leash to about and inch past your fingernails.

    Way too much overall talent for the results he's produced .

    Bottom line Freddie was put at the wheel of a Masserrati with 10 gears and he's hitting on 6 in terms of of the amount of talent given too him, as he's produced less results than other Browns coaches given beaters with fouled plugs and low octane, that couldn't break a 100 going all down Hill with the transmission already wound out because the filters half clogged.

    Peeps including ownership were looking for their car running neck and neck with the big boys toward the checkered flag , not worried about if they're gonna get lapped by the pace car.

    He can turn it around , but the miracle has to begin Sunday .

    >>>>

    SoulDawg

    This post was edited by SoulDawg74 2 months ago

  • He's missing shifts and grinding the gears of the Masserati, but there's some problems with the factory parts too.

  • Gameface64 said... (original post) Talk about a Catch 22. Most of the people bitching about Fred right now (maybe not you) would have been screaming bloody murder if Dorsey had le...

    But of course a good GM shouldn't allow PR to enter into his decision-making about a key hire. He should base it on what is best for the team. The skill of the potential HC naturally. But also his experience. And also the nature of the team he would be HCing.

    As I recall, there appeared to be several options open and roads to go down. One guy, an experienced and successful HC who wanted the job, even said he would make Freddie his OC. And I've never heard any reliable report that Freddie was apt to move to a different team unless he was automatically made HC this year. But at any rate, a good GM would set that sort of PR concern aside and focus on finding a HC who would be the best for the team.

    So Dorsey made his call. Now we wait to see the results. Not a good start, but the race isn't yet over. But whatever happens, he most definitely should be judged as either a GM who did a good job making a key decision or failed to do it. With results to his future to follow.

  • ergoipso said... (original post) But of course a good GM shouldn't allow PR to enter into his decision-making about a key hire. He should base it on what is best for the team...

    There was the idea that if Ktchens wasn't hired by the Browns, he'd take an OC job somewhere else, perhaps with Arians in TB. Although never confirmed, there was some thought the Browns could lose him to a HC position as teams sought out bright, young offensive minds in the wake of Sean McVey's success last year. We also have to factor in the buzz around someone, anyone, getting the 0-16 Browns to look good and win games with an offensive turnaround. We both know that anyone who could do that was a miracle worker. And there stood Freddy, all aw shucks humble in his newly fitted angel wings. I'll restate, if the Browns let Kitchens get away, the second guessing in real time would have been intense, and extremely negative. Considering that Arians' health and personality were considered somewhat suspect, Fred was as a good bet as any untested coordinator on the market.

    Haha, there were people who wanted Adam Gase. People who wanted Mike McCarthy. Matt Eberflus. Kevin Stefanski. But the groundswell was always for Kitchens, and any GM would have had difficulty bucking that trend. Unless we expect Dorsey to be clairvoyant, I'm not gonna hang him for taking a chance on FK, and we all know Haslam signed off on it, so there's that as well. See below for some impressions on the HC search from that time.

    https://dawgpounddaily.com/2019/01/07/freddie-kitchens-emerging-favorite-cleveland-browns-head-coach/

    This post was edited by Gameface64 2 months ago

  • Gameface64 said... (original post) There was the idea that if Ktchens wasn't hired by the Browns, he'd take an OC job somewhere else, perhaps with Arians in TB. Although ...

    I understand that there were various options at the time. And a case could be made- and obviously was- for picking Kitchens out of those options. So here we are and we shall see if Dorsey made the right call. 2-6 and a disjointed appearance doesn't bode well. But hey, there's still time.

    Here's the deal: A GM gets paid to handle things correctly. A few misses will happen, of course. But if the misses reach a critical mass- and if they are misses on crucial decisions like the choosing of the HC for a developing WIP- then that gets noticed and toted up. And Freddie is just a blip on the big screen. The entirety of how the team has been handled after going 7-8-1 last year all matters. Explaining mistakes only goes so far after awhile.

    The scary part is if the Haslam-snake gets riled up enough to start injecting his poisonous wisdom into the veins of the Cleveland Browns. You can always tell yourself you'll find a better HC and a better GM. On the other hand, you can also find worse ones.