Sobo Tight Ends

Sobo Tight Ends

  • It appears that the draft is on the light side for Tight Ends. Would it be safe to say we need to add three?

  • Discussion
  • This was a question asked Pat Kirwan yesterday. He said the draft did not have the 1st and 2nd round type TEs, but more in the 3rd and 4th round. I added the not 1st and 2nd, since he did say, teams would be looking in the 3rd and 4th. He did not mean the players would be bad, but not the quality of the other players that are rated as 1st and 2nd round players.

    As we all know, some team can always over draft or see a certain player they see will fit a big need and go in the second round.

    We know the WR, OT and now some consider the safety position is a deep position. I would like to hear what SOBO has to say about the Safety position.

    Two of the major needs are the OT and S for the Cleveland Browns this year.

  • Yeah I would agree TE's are a little thin

    Hopkins - Purdue 2nd to 3rd rd

    Kmet - ND 2nd to 3rd rd

    Bryant - Washington 3rd to 4th rd

    Moss - LSU 3rd to 4th rd

    But if say you are looking for more of a blocking TE this draft is full of them.

  • keato37 said... (original post)Yeah I would agree TE's are a little thin Hopkins - Purdue 2nd to 3rd rdKmet - ND 2nd to 3rd rdBryant - Washington 3rd to 4th rdMoss - LSU 3rd ...

    The best two-way TE of the bunch may end up being Adam Trautman from Dayton.

  • marktroy said... (original post)The best two-way TE of the bunch may end up being Adam Trautman from Dayton.

    I was impressed with him in the Senior Bowl. Will be interesting to see where he projects after the combine/pro days. I personally think the Browns have too many other needs (OL, DL, S, primarily) to look at a TE before the third round.

  • All depends on if Berry is capable of signing FAs. Theres not many holes left.

  • I think the fullback they picked up will help bolster the run blocking and expect an additional FA acquisition; new FB is VERY strong and as a former QB has smarts, can throw, plus...as a former LB, he's very tough.

    Expect them to bring in a developmental TE or two since their offense relies on TE's who block; certainly not much apparent inline blocking there right now.

    This post was edited by mortdogsr 11 months ago

  • George Kittle was a 5th round pick - the #142 overall. Here's a good story from an evaluator asking himself what he overlooked when he projected Kittle to go in the 4th round.

    https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/what-i-learned-from-evaluating-george-kittle

    Here are the highlights:

    "In reviewing my film grading of Kittle, he was knocked for route-running and body control when blocking."

    Guess what, that stuff can be improved with practice. It's not like being slow, under-sized, or injury prone.

    "His athletic profile gave indications that he could develop his route running ability. His 40-yard dash, broad jump, three-cone, short shuttle and vertical jumps were all off-the-charts and suggested he has the physical ability to win as a route runner and he has."

    There you go. Athletically we was off the charts. This guy reminds me of Antonio Gates, who was also off the charts athletically but went undrafted because he only played college football for one season after switching from basketball. Scouts were wowed by his workouts but thought it would take too long to develop him. He was starting for the Chargers halfway through his rookie year.

    "In hindsight, believing more in his physical traits to overcome a lack of route running nuance would have been wise on my part, especially because of his athletic testing, ball skills and post-catch ability. Taking into account his highly competitive demeanor on the field hinted at his work ethic and mentality to grow as a player."

    Let's see - what do you get when you combine off-the-charts athleticism, great hands (1 drop in his college career), and excellent RAC ability with a strong work ethic? Can you say, "All-Pro"?

    But the entire NFL overlooked all that and focused on his lack of "route running nuance".

    "Another knock on Kittle was his modest receiving production....The run-heavy 2016 Hawkeyes logged 502 rushes against 310 passes for the season. Kittle led the team in receiving touchdowns while accounting for 13 percent of the total receptions and 16 percent of the total receiving yards - as a tight end."

    Kittle didn't start until his senior season and only caught 22 passes, although he was injured part of the season. But if you consider that Iowa ran a run-heavy offense you would not have downgraded him based on his numbers. The lesson learned from Kittle and Gates is to emphasize physical traits and work ethic in your evaluations. Don't downgrade a prospect based on numbers if what he does well isn't compatible with his college scheme.

    The Browns need to look for superior athletes who didn't put up big numbers in college for whatever reason and start hitting on some middle round picks. Dorsey took a shot on Antonio Callaway but it didn't work out - he didn't have the work ethic and liked drugs. The Browns drafted Seth DeValve, another TE who tested extremely well but didn't have a lot of college production due to chronic foot injuries. That was a good bet, IMO. He has some moments but wasn't able to put it together for some reason. He's still in the league, though.

    Same with David Njoku, who is considered one of the most athletically gifted TE prospects ever to come out. He has a problem catching the ball and that's something that generally can't be fixed since it's probably a visual inability to tracking moving objects efficiently. Think batters who never learn to hit the curveball no matter how long they play.

    Bad hands, bad work ethic, drug problem - take a pass. Great workout numbers, great work ethic, but didn't play in a college system conducive to showcasing their talent - turn in the card.

    This post was edited by PROSECUTOR 11 months ago

  • Njoku from what I can remember seemed to suffer more from concentration drops than hand-eye coordination drops.

  • marktroy said... (original post)All depends on if Berry is capable of signing FAs. Theres not many holes left.


    There are a lot of holes left. The Browns need two new tackles and a guard plus offensive line depth. Defensive tackle and depth across the line. Depending on Schobert. We may need 4 or more new line backers. The safety position is a mess. Need a fullback. At least another one for camp. We need a veteran QB to back up Mayfield. Maybe Bridgewater or another former starter.

    Were good at the corner spot for now. If Hunt can stay out of trouble the RB position is good. WR position is good could use some depth. We need 2 tightends that can catch and block.

    They're will be a lot of turn over just due to the players Dorsey signed off the practice squad to fill all of the backup positions.

    The Btowns have to fix the woeful offensive line before they do anything else.
  • Florida_Brown said... (original post)There are a lot of holes left. The Browns need two new tackles and a guard plus offensive line depth. Defensive tackle and depth across the li...

    4 LBs? 3 new OL starters plus depth? I think you’re overstating it a bit.

    At a minimum, we need new OTs, a blocking TE, help at LB if we sign Scho, at least one starter if we don’t, a heavy rotation DL that can play the run. That’s minimum. It changes if we release Vernon.

    We have Redwine and Hassell at safety right now, that’s it. We need at least 3-4 of them, 2 starters. I’d resign Burris for depth, maybe as a 3rd safety at this point

    A RG would be great but I’m not expecting it if we replace both OTs, I think we try again to fix it from within.

    Sadly, Hodge and Ratley look like our #3 and #4 WRs.

    These are minimums, IMHO. I could be wrong.

    This post was edited by JerrySherk 11 months ago

  • JerrySherk said... (original post)4 LBs? 3 new OL starters plus depth? I think you’re overstating it a bit.At a minimum, we need new OTs, a blocking TE, help at LB if we sign Scho...

    Yes 4 linebackers if Schobert leaves in free agency and Kirskey is let go due to his salary. Wilson was rated below average at Linebacker by PFF. Takitaki played mainly on special teams. Taylor was cut.

    The offensive line is one of the worst in the NFL. Trading Zeitler was a huge screw up. It exposed Hubbard's poor play even more. Robinson is gone. Kush was a Dorsey draft bust signed off the waiver wire he is gone. Right guard was a problem all season. No one stood out. They all were equally sorry. Hubbard is going to have to take a large pay cut to stay as a backup. So we need two tackles,depth behind the two tackles. The depth behind the right and left guards are suspect and can be upgraded. There definetly needs to be some competiion brought in to challenge the backups.

    There will be a lot of turn over just because there are a lot of backups that are just practice players. You can't tell me the team would not be better with Zeitler and Peppers starting. Backups of Ogbah, Nassib, Shelton on the defensive line. Jammie Collins Jr playing linebacker instead of Wilson. McCourty moving over to safety. Reiter staying as a backup C\G instead of starting for the Super Bowl Chiefs. These players are all starters on their respecive teams but can't even be backups on the Browns? Dorsey was a control freak. He purged the roster, picked the coach, told the coach who was going to play. Kitchens was just a pupet that Dorsey could control. Dorsey also spent over 60 Million dollars of the cap. Now the new regime has to fix that. The first four Harris (Dorsey draft bust), Kush (same), Taylor, and Carrie. All over payed or performed poorly. Carrie played well but he was being way overpayed. We have two 15 million dollar wide receivers. How long is that going to last. 15 million dollar DE that can't stay healthy.

    Dorsey had made some good draft picks but he also had the previous regimes draft picks not his. 1st and 4th pick in the first. 1st and 3rd pick in the second. Last pick in the second First pick in the third. Mayfield if he gets his head straight was a good pick, I liked the Ward pick, Corbett was a bad pick, Chubb was a great pick. Giving up the 1st pick in the 3rd for Taylor was a waste. You could have signed McCarron for free or anyone for free. Taylor played poorly was benced then pouted. Calloway was a bad pick on a player with a bad past. No one knows yet if Chad Thomas is going to pan out.

  • New front office, new organizational philosophy, new coaches, means some new players, some new uses for returning players, some new role players familiar with the new schemes, expectations for developmental improvement due to exposure to life in the NFL as a job, by a number of young guys, and some returners coming back from injury/suspension with a greater hunger to succeed...all of it part of creating the framework for the 2020 Cleveland Browns.

    Based on the foregoing, the draft will bring in potential assets that may turn out to be integral parts of the 2020 team and on into the future.

    Getting Baker Mayfield to recommit to doing the work to realize his FQB potential, getting Myles Garrett to see that he needs the team and therefore, needs to act more unselfishly in order to maximize his potential, getting OBJ to become more than a "participant", finding a TE who can block...and catch (preferably TWO TE's), integrating Baker Mayfield into the running game by getting him to use his ball-handling skills more effectively and cleaning up the ball tracking skills of the DB's...are all areas that will make the 2020 team far more competitive than the 2019 group.

    The 2020 team needs some additional pieces but...the existing talent pool has to be used far more effectively.

    Too much of the craptastic play from last year is directly due to attitudinal deficit...too many of these young guys have an inflated sense of their own importance and too little willingness to commit to the hard, onerous, repetitive work and self-sacrifice required to create a winning team.

    The guys who are here from last year have to commit to doing what needs to be done this year, and the coaches need to demand that they remain committed to developing their skills no matter who is brought in via FA, trades or the draft.

    2019 was a disaster and the players who are returning are a major cause. The 2020 season can be better but for it to be so, the returning members of this team have to commit to making it so; if they aren't working on their attitudes, maturity and personal commitment...it'll be more of the same childish nonsense that we watched last year.

  • There are a couple that I like..

    Albert Okwuegbunam 6-5 255 4.68e Missouri...
    Harrison Bryant 6-5 240 4.63e Florida Atlantic..
    Both have size and good speed for the position.. After that, I'm not too excited..


    Cole Kmet 6-6 250 4..85e Notre Dame has the size I like, but the speed is what's holding me back.. We'll see what he does at the combine..

  • Florida_Brown said... (original post)Yes 4 linebackers if Schobert leaves in free agency and Kirskey is let go due to his salary. Wilson was rated below average at Linebacker by P...

    I agree with a lot of what you say, Dorsey purged way too deep, let his ego go crazy.

    I just don’t think you can get 4 LBs, 3 OL, 2 safeties, all starters, in one year and still address TE, DL, slot CB, etc. You're setting yourself up to be disappointed.

  • A complete overreaction.

    Every new coach and Berry himself has said how much they like our current roster. Theres no reason one offseason cant fix it with cap space and 4 picks in the first three rounds.

  • marktroy said... (original post)A complete overreaction. Every new coach and Berry himself has said how much they like our current roster. Theres no reason one offseason cant fix ...

    One offseason, FA, Draft, UDFA AND..a major attitudinal overhaul!

    This post was edited by mortdogsr 10 months ago

  • Kmets size measurements were near perfect. Very interested how he performs this week. Has great hands and an understanding of how to get open

  • dennn said... (original post)There are a couple that I like.. Albert Okwuegbunam 6-5 255 4.68e Missouri...Harrison Bryant 6-5 240 4.63e Florida Atlantic..Both have size and good s...

    Bryant lit OSU up last season

  • And...he blocks. He has to be a legitimate consideration to improve the running game and supplement the passing game.

    https://www.nfl.com/prospects/harrison-bryant?id=32194252-5936-3372-c05e-d19e0eddbf05

    Comparison...GEORGE KITTLE

    "Bryant's plus athletic traits, high football IQ and toughness as a blocker make him one of the most talented, well-rounded tight ends in this draft. He's a little light to be considered for full-time work as a "Y" tight end, but his technique and tenacity should not be discounted in his ability to help the running game. He's instinctive in space with speed and separation talent to work all three levels and gives offensive coordinators the freedom to line him up all over the field. Bryant could become an early starter and has the talent to be a high volume pass-catching target as a move tight end."

    "More than held his own against Ohio State"

    And, don't sleep on Stephen Carlson from Princeton...already a returning Brown...look at his SPARQ and at his intelligence.

    Smart, tough, and accountable...and already available for TE/Hybrid development as a former Ivy League WR; thereby fulfilling the ultimate "ability",,,availability!

  • PROSECUTOR said... (original post)George Kittle was a 5th round pick - the #142 overall. Here's a good story from an evaluator asking himself what he overlooked when he proje...

    Watching Njoku, he seems a little "shy" for a tight end...in comparison to Landry, he seems VERY shy for a TE or a receiver; the basics in football, blocking, tackling, catching, running the ball, making contested catches or scrambling for loose balls is all about "want to" not "born to."

    To me, Njoku has incredible natural athletic skills ...but he's just not tough; if you want tough, smart and accountable...you may need to move on from DN ...particularly if you want TE's who contribute in the run game because I don't think you can convince Njoku to throw his body around 'cause...he just don't want to!

  • mortdogsr said... (original post)Watching Njoku, he seems a little "shy" for a tight end...in comparison to Landry, he seems VERY shy for a TE or a receiver; the basics ...

    I wouldn't hate it if we found a trade partner for Njoku. But I'm not sure what type of TE our new HC is looking for.

  • S10 and his staff mantra regarding key player characteristics..."tough, smart, accountable"; think about how well Njoku measures up to those three characteristics.

    He is a WR playing TE and creates valuable mismatches in that way...but S10 likes 2TE sets and receivers than add to the running game; for Njoku to be coveted as an every down TE...he 's going to have to block, and catch the football.

    He has lots of drops...and an aversion to contact.

    Look at Jarvis Landry...a slot receiver who will go get the ball and make contact in the run game; as a running team, you'd surely like your TE (the glorified OT! ...) to at least approach your slot receivers level of toughness!

  • We're definitely need more then one.
    I would LOVE us to sign Hooper, but I just don't see it.
    Maybe Ebron.
    We can draft a popular guy like Albert, the speed guy, or do all Trautman, or Harrison Bryant.
    Who ever we draft, I would LOVE us to come back with one of our two 7th round picks and take Matthew Wilkerson from little Edward Waters University
    Height: 6-6. Weight: 270 and he's a very athletic tough guy that plays both ways, and is just as good at DE as TE .
    My Guy.

    This post was edited by stellardawg 10 months ago

  • stellardawg said... (original post)We're definitely need more then one.I would LOVE us to sign Hooper, but I just don't see it.Maybe Ebron.We can draft a popular guy lik...

    This right here. We don't need big name athletic threats at TE this year. We have Njoku one more year, for better or worse. What we need is the no name guys that can block, catch and are tough. Like a Fells or Heiden. Low round/UDFA no names then pass the looking for getting a pro bowl TE off till next year. If we use higher than a 4th rounder this year, on this TE class, then I will consider it a waste of team construction assets. Until that player proves me wrong anyway.

  • With the signing of Hooper, we don't have to worry about drafting a TE, unless we trade Njoku.