Olivier Vernon To Miss Second-Straight Game, Fifth Of Last Six

Olivier Vernon To Miss Second-Straight Game, Fifth Of Last Six

  • SOBOdawg said... (original post) Olivier Vernon is still tied for second on the team with 34 pressures despite missing those games. In fact, his pass-rush productivity percentage ...

    Treating an injury like a moral failing is one of the weirder things that sports fans tend to do.

    I don't think getting rid of all our veterans with high paychecks is the preferred way of taking advantage of the final years of Mayfield's rookie contract, but who am I to argue with a team that hasn't been the playoffs in 17 years.

  • peeode said... (original post) What's also been atrocious is this asinine offensive scheme that requires all pro tackles to have any chance of success.

    You mean the one that has 3 WRs running deep routes all in the same zone?

  • BiggusDickus said... (original post) You mean the one that has 3 WRs running deep routes all in the same zone?


    Yep. That one.
  • I think he plays for the Browns in 2020. They deliberately moved that $ 15 mil from rig to de

  • forty4five5 said... (original post) Wonder if he gets cut?

    Why would he get cut over bad luck?

  • I think he stays in 2020 but obviously the Browns need to draft a couple quality backup defensive ends/ edge rushers.

  • PlaysWithSwagger said... (original post) Treating an injury like a moral failing is one of the weirder things that sports fans tend to do.I don't think getting rid of all our ...

    As Cousin Eddie would say, "bingo."

    As long as we have Baker on the cheap, I don't see a reason to cut a guy for contractual reasons alone. Contractual + performance? Fine. Hell, performance alone? Fine. But the guy has been OK, IMO, when healthy. No, he didn't get a lot of sacks but what was Wilks asking him to do? Do we really know? Seems that a lot of people think that he was playing acceptably well.

    Sometimes I think that our front offices create challenges for themselves just so they can work on filling them.

    Now, if his knee is something that the medical staff is advising Dorsey that "he'll never be the same" then, well, then I'll feel bad about it but performance is the bottom line. It's a brutal business.

  • Linehogs said... (original post) Why would he get cut over bad luck?



    Looks more like a pattern

    2017 - 12 games
    2018 - 11 games
    2019 - 9 games

    Not putting up anywhere near 15 mill numbers either - averaging 6.5 sacks a year over the last 6 years. He'll be 30 next year.

    Really, it's more like - what are the reasons that they'd bring him back?
  • forty4five5 said... (original post) Looks more like a pattern2017 - 12 games2018 - 11 games2019 - 9 gamesNot putting up anywhere near 15 mill numbers either - averaging 6.5 sacks ...

    Really, it's more like: Why would you create another hole on the roster when the player is clearly the team's second-best best pass-rusher/run defender and the team has $51 million in projected salary-cap space for next season with his $15M already included? The team can then cut bait in 2021 to make room for Myles Garrett's extension.

    This post was edited by SOBOdawg 1 month ago

  • BiggusDickus said... (original post) There was no way to go but up. I’m not one of those “Dorsey sucks” guys — just objective. He’s done some good — no question. But he also inher...


    Now this is directed at you
    That's a dumb outlook because we have seen high pick after high pick wasted
    Free agent after free agent larceny

    So yeah - there are other ways to go than up
    And Dorsey is and has been outstanding
  • JackTBurton said... (original post) Now this is directed at youThat's a dumb outlook because we have seen high pick after high pick wastedFree agent after free agent larcenyS...

    And you’re still stuck in the old Browns mindset — not exactly brilliant either — where competence becomes “outstanding.”

    I’m done comparing now to the ***** we’ve endured in the past.

    Know why?

    Because STR the Browns have been awful on unprecedented levels. Anything that doesn’t suck looks amazing. I get it.

  • SOBOdawg said... (original post) Really, it's more like: Why would you create another hole on the roster when the player is clearly the team's second-best best pass-rusher and run ...


    Are you happy with 9 games and 3 sacks?

    Will we for sure get that same production again when he's another year older and has battled injuries 3 straight years?

    With his injuries and lack of production (due to injuries and 3 sacks in 9 games) - would it really be creating a hole in the lineup? Chad Freaking Thomas is putting up the same numbers in less snaps.
  • BiggusDickus said... (original post) And you’re still stuck in the old Browns mindset — not exactly brilliant either — where competence becomes “outstanding.”I’m done comparing no...


    Then stop with dumbass takes dude
    I don't - but I recongnize what has been accomplished
    Your lazy **** take of "no where to go but up" is ******** dumb because you can actually miss those picks
    Whatever - you seem content with bitching and moaning
    It's cool, I try to not to argue with idiots any more
  • JackTBurton said... (original post) Then stop with dumbass takes dudeI don't - but I recongnize what has been accomplishedYour lazy **** take of "no where to go but up&q...

    You make me sad.

  • forty4five5 said... (original post) Are you happy with 9 games and 3 sacks?Will we for sure get that same production again when he's another year older and has battled injuri...

    Would I like to see him healthy? Absolutely. Who wouldn't?

    At the same time, sacks aren't the be-all, end-all argument, because he played quite well before being injured--as stated previously with the stats I provided.

    He's not a chump because he only had so many sacks. He's actually a damn good ball player in both phases of the game.

  • he's a damn good player when he plays. A great complementary end to Garrett. But I expect he'll be released.

  • One more quick note for those who think Chad Thomas "is putting up the same numbers in less snaps."

    NO, he's not.

    1. Vernon is graded as a superior run defender.
    2. Vernon has more than double the total pressures.
    3. OK, Thomas has played 100 fewer snaps. Cool. His pass-rush productivity (ie how often they create pressure in the form of a sack, pressure or QB hit) is significantly lower than Vernon's.

    If you can't see the difference with a healthy Vernon on the field compared to Thomas, I'm not exactly sure what to tell you.

    Thomas has played better than expected after a lost season, but he's not the guy you want playing off the edge on a consistent basis. He lacks the explosive qualities needed to be a consistent presence.

    This post was edited by SOBOdawg 1 month ago

  • SOBOdawg said... (original post) One more quick note for those who think Chad Thomas "is putting up the same numbers in less snaps."NO, he's not. 1. Vernon is graded as a superior ...


    No comparison to the two
    Vernon is a good player and very effective
    Injuries are a concern but he will be back
    Thomas is a good back up
    Produces sacks and plays the run
    Frankly not as bad and just as productive as the stiffs we let go in Ogbah (who he reminds me of but better pass rusher) nassib and the no namer Hennessy every or whatever the guys name who couldn't come into camp in shape and bitched on Twitter he wasnt playing
  • I'm not a Chad Thomas fan - was just stating that in way less snaps he has about the same tackles and actually more Sacks (understanding sacks and tackles might not be the most important metrics - at the same time don't act like sacks mean nothing when looking at a DE).

    Just wondering if an aging and often injured DE with fading production is our best option?

    I doubt Vernon is in the Browns long term plans, so next year doesn't really matter if they bring him back or not - hopefully he's healthy if he's a Brown next year.

  • forty4five5 said... (original post) I'm not a Chad Thomas fan - was just stating that in way less snaps he has about the same tackles and actually more Sacks (understanding s...

    Fair.


    But I don't believe it's in the team's best interests to move on from a good player when it doesn't have a legitimate long-term replacement and money isn't an issue (yet).

    To me, it makes no sense from a team-building perspective.

    This post was edited by SOBOdawg 1 month ago

  • forty4five5 said... (original post) I doubt Vernon is in the Browns long term plans, so next year doesn't really matter if they bring him back or not - hopefully he's he...

    The objective is no longer "long term plans" (or shouldn't be), it's what they need to win right now.

    Even if it fails, Browns need to keep behaving as if each season of the next 5 years is their window.

    No, they don't want to do anything crazy stupid, like go into salary cap jail for years to gamble it all on any one season.

    Keeping Vernon in 2020 has no impact beyond '20 as his contract expires.

    The team has space next year, and will have more after the almost surefire cut of Kirko.

    The team needs 2 offensive lineman, 2 safeties, DI, maybe a LB or TE (depending) and a change in offensive scheme.

    Between the draft and the cap space they've already got, that can be accomplished without ditching Vernon.

    This post was edited by September241979 1 month ago

  • Sounds like there's a lot of confidence in Vernon's health - more confidence than the evidence should inspire.

    Hopefully you guys are correct, and he's back to putting up starter DE numbers next year if he's a Brown.

    Contract years can be a very powerful motivator - hopefully he has a career year if he's still in Cleveland.

  • forty4five5 said... (original post) I'm not a Chad Thomas fan - was just stating that in way less snaps he has about the same tackles and actually more Sacks (understanding sacks ...


    Lol of course you aren't
    Despite him being as productive in less downs as the clowns everyone cries and bitches about (nassib, Ogbah and Hennessy)
    So of course you can't say you like him
    It shoots holes in dozens of threads and the used tampons
  • forty4five5 said... (original post) Sounds like there's a lot of confidence in Vernon's health - more confidence than the evidence should inspire.Hopefully you guys are ...

    It's the NFL, a sport with an almost 100% career injury rate; there's no reason to have confidence in anyone's health.

    All you can do is try to take reasonable risks.

    He's had some ankle and knee stuff but despite the missed games, he's never been on IR.

    On the NFL scale, that's not high risk.